Optics question for Mr. Dwyer

[Oni]

Duane

I have recently caught the Strider bug...3 and counting so far. My AR is with you guys now getting some ambi thumb studs. Awesome knife!

I just bought a Remington 700 PSS in .308...can't afford an AI rifle yet. Do you have any suggestions for optics?

Thanks, Mark



April 9th is POW/MIA day!
POW/MIA you are not forgotten

 

[Mick Strider]

I guess Duane missed this one.
You CAN NOT go wrong when dealing with Leupold. I would get a fixed 10X with a ranging reticle.

Mick
]

 

[wolfmann601]

I gotta agree with Mr. Strider, Leupold is my favorite. My personal preference and the scope I use on all my rifles is the VARI-XIII
3.5-10x40mm--- 3/4MIL.

Now I just got to learn how to shoot!!!!!!...............Ira

 

[Spark]

What's the verdict on the new Leupold CQB?

 

[Oni]

Mick and Wolfmann

Thanks for the advice! I just got the new Leupold catalog, so I am going to go home tonight and look at it very carefully.

I have been asking my friends about optics too...and they say the same thing. Now to choose which one. I'm going to check out the 10X with ranging recticle and VARI-XIII.

Mick, why do you prefer a fixed power over a variable? This is my first "long range" rifle, so I am trying to learn as much as possible. Are there any sites that explain the different recticle styles?

Sorry if this is out of context for the Strider knife forum. Saving up for my next one. Maybe an MT.

Mark

 

[Vincent Kane]

Originally posted by Oni
Mick, why do you prefer a fixed power over a variable? This is my first "long range" rifle, so I am trying to learn as much as possible. Are there any sites that explain the different recticle styles?

I don't want to answer for Mick, but I'll toss my own 2 cents in on this subject.

The military usually opts for fixed power scopes for their rifles because most variable power scopes aren't nearly as rugged. Variable power scopes have more internal parts which increase the probability of failure in extreme environments or conditions. In essence, the benefits of having variable power capability doesn't out weigh the increased potential for problems or failure.

Also, many variable power scopes can't hold zero over time while going from one power to another. What I mean is, if you go from 6x to 14x and back to 6x, many scopes will slightly change the point of aim. Leupold scopes are built to exacting standards and I can't recall seeing this happen to one of theirs, but that's not to say it can't happen... especially if the scope it beaten around enough.

10X is all you realistically need for engaging man sized targets at normal sniping ranges. Some guys have gone to 16x optics but 10x is still the norm. Once you get much over 14x or so, you start to really have a problem with mirages. The target looks as though you're viewing it through a glass of murky water that is in constant motion. As the magnification increases, the worse this problem becomes.

 

[DancesWithKnives]

Spark,

Compared with my Trijicon ACOG, I didn't think the Leupold looked that great. However, the Les Baer guys had one on one of their match-grade AR-style rifles and spoke very well of it. Since I respect their rifles, I'm disinclined to ignore their opinion of the Leupold. You might want to give them a call.

 

[Spark]

I'm thinking about the new Trijicon Tri-Power as a new scope because it seems to have the best of all worlds, but I like the variable power aspect of the Leupold. Main problem is the price differance - and since it'd be going on my AR, it's not like I really need the high power. I can get headshots at 300M pretty regularly with my Comp M or my ACOG, so I'll probably be fine with the Trijicon Tri-Power.

Kevin

 

[Vincent Kane]

I've heard very few people in the benchrest/hi-power/tactical rifle world talk bad about Leupolds products or their company. Leupolds are renown for their crystal clear optics, precision craftsmanship and their "no BS" lifetime warranty.

They have a huge and incredibly loyal following, including myself.

I have 4 Leupolds currently on rifles in my collection ranging from Vari-III's to MK4's. In my opinion it's some of the best glass out there.

I also have a Trijicon ACOG which I use on my M16 from time to time. While I agree the ACOG has extremely clear optics and they are very rugged, they aren't in the same league as Leupold for long-range optics.

 

[Jerry Hossom]

One reason for choosing fixed power vs variable is they are brighter, needing less glass, so less light loss. IMO, brightness makes a huge difference in the utility of a scope. Most German glass uses 30mm tubes whereas most Leupold and other US scopes use 1" (25mm) tubes. There is a big difference in brightness there too. One of the most impressive scopes I ever sighted through was a Zeiss 4X fixed. It completely changed my attitude about magnification. With more brightness, less magnification is needed.

This is just my opinion on the subject, and I've only applied it to hunting, but that's what I look for in a good scope.

 

[Oni]

Hey thanks for all the good info guys! I've been an iron sights kind of guy, except for the 4X scope on my old 30-30, so I have a lot to learn.

Going to spend some time reading through the Leupold catalog.

Man, so many choices...just like Striders...which one to choose?

 

[Izrafil]

A good Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 LR can be had for around $500-$600 if you look around. It's a good versatile scope for somebody who probably won't be beating the **** out of their equipment quite yet.

Around a $1000 you have quite a few choices still.

Nightforce NXS makes a good scope though I've yet to hear reports on their ruggedness.

I got a Leupold MK4 16x fixed on one of my rifles and it's very good.

US Optics also has the ST-10 fixed 10x starting at $895 ... around a thousand with adjustable objective.

Above that US Optics has enhanced ST-10's, SN-3 variable power scopes ... you could always go with a Schmidt & Bender, but the metric markings/adjustments are a b1tch at first.


Here's an SN-3 on my 300WM - 3.8 to 22 power ... 58mm objective which is a bit large ... I'd prefer 44 now

 

[DrSpine]

Izrafil,

Now there we go! Badger Max50's.....totally overbuilt and that looks like a Mc. A3......dude....awesome gun. Who built your rifle/ Is it a Robar by any chance?

 

[KaliSIG]

Last time I spoke to Duane, his top three favorite scopes were: Schmidt-Bender, US Optics, & Nightforce. The AI rifles he's shooting have Schmidt-Bender scopes on them.

Adrian

 

[Mick Strider]

No sorry,
Duane is a big Tasco man.

 

[DrSpine]

Mick's right.....and Duane doesn't even use the SuperSniper tasco....he goes for the $30.00 closeouts at Turner's Outdoorsman...!

Seriously, Kalisig has it right.

 

[Oni]

Heh heh...Tasco. Sounds like the one on my 30-30!

Izrafil, that is an awesome set-up you have! My skill level won't let me justify a $1000 scope yet. Be kind of like the sport bike guys I see wobbling up the canyons with their shiny bikes, race exhausts and full of stickers...with a Winnibago drafting them trying to pass!

I am looking very hard at the Leupold's. Closer to my budget, and still more scope than I probably need at this time. Hopefully in time, with beaucoup practice...and a nice raise...I can justify a nicer set-up.

Thanks for all the good info guys. I have a better idea of the reasons for fixed vs. variable now. Gonna hit the magazine store and see if they have any good articles on scopes.


Mark

 

[Izrafil]

DrSpine, it's a .300 WM with a SR90 stock, but it's not built by Robar. Jerry Rice (not the football player, duurr ) at http://www.norcalprecision.com built the gun. He does great work and is local for me.

Those rings are really too much for that .300 WM, and six torx screws for each ring is annoying . I'd go with the setup Yuwen has on her 6mm Rem. Scope is a Vari-X III 'Tactical' 4-14x40mm 30mm maintube.

 

[Izrafil]

Duane probably knows that guy that custom makes ballistic drop cams for the Schmidt and Bender scopes ... or he's just mighty fast between metric and english

 

[Duane Dwyer]

OK OK,
Geez I miss a couple of days here and you guys throw me under the bus! Lots of good points here. As well as lots of good gear mentioned. There are others that were left out that are good gear as well but lets move on.

The answers on fixed vs. variable are excellent and should include the point that estimating a target size is more inconsistant when done at various magnifications. Also, though most newer optics do not loose there optic center upon increasing or decreasing power, many shooters do. This is where eye relief is extremely important as well.

Big point to ponder; if you are buying this for true tactical use or for rapid aquisition and firing, consider this ...
Adjustable objectives, focus knobs or any other name you may hear for parallax adjustments are handicaps for this type of work. Here's why;
At the critical moment of firing there are several factors to deal with. Posture, breathing, movement, trigger control, stock weld and certainly thinking. Now add the fact that ... **** MY OBJECTIVE IS OUT OF FOCUS!
By the time you re-adjust and get back on target, you can easily loose your window of opportunity as well as compromise yourself via movement. All bad.
There are scopes on the market that are parallax corrected to a specific distance and will still remain in focus at other distances as well. This simply reduces your mental and physical requirements by a substantial amount and increases effectiveness.
Now the down side, there is an error factor involved with parallax corrected optics at uncorrected distances. It can amount to a significant amount at extreme distances. This will not be a detriment on a killing rifle for a trained operator. It will be a factor to a match shooter needing accuracy at it's technical limits.
I realize I have gone long here but I really enjoy this topic and hope this helps.
For one last thought, if you are at a point in your shooting where you are still learning and improving rapidly, I suggest you NOT spend a fortune on optics. Get something stable and solid with good turrets and decent glass, mount it well on your rifle and spend your money on match ammo so you can continue to improve. When you are consistantly shooting as well as the limits of your equiptment, then get better stuff.
Feel free to email me for prices on any of this stuff. I have been doing this for a while and can probably save you money. Bear with me if it takes me a few days to respond. We are busy.
Here's to the V-ring,
Duane Dwyer