Ordering from Scott Cook?

I don't expect the maker to contact me between order and delivery. I carefully pick makers who are known for integrity. I don't feel a need for reassurance on some sort of schedule. This takes time...I'd rather have the maker building knives than sending out e-mails about knife status. However, if the wait is longer than a year, I always contact the maker about 3 months out for affirmation of both schedule and order.
 
They make and sell knives. For a living. To customers like us. Without the customer, a full time knifemaker couldn't survive. So when I don't get a call back or have to wait TWO YEARS for a little neck knife, I say forget it. A particular maker may be a great "artist" and make a great knife, but when it goes to their head and they stop appreciating the fact that there are people like us out there, willing to drop $1000+ for a knife that they've made, then as far as I'm concerned, they can keep their knives. The bottom line is that they're in business and have to realize that if the customer isn't treated right and with respect on all levels, "artists" can turn into "starving artists".

Pete
 
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I don't expect makers to give me status reports on my orders, but just to notify me when they are ready to start my knife. I would rather they spend their time making knives than calling or e-mailing dozens of customers at intervals. If I have a concern or if an order is past due, I will call them.

A system to track schedule progress and send status reports is a great idea and easy enough to accomplish, however perhaps a little optimistic as I doubt many makers would or are doing it. I wonder how many makers actually strictly stick to an order list or even have a recorded list. And I expect there's many factors that determine when or if customers get knives they have ordered. I suggest sticking with makers you trust for ordering knives or accept the risk. And if you don't have the patience to wait, don't order.
 
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The waiting years part doesn't bother me. Lack of communication does. When I am told that my knife is going to be ready by a certain date, give or take, a month or so before that date arrives I will email or call the maker. I prefer emails because I then have a record of what I was informed by the maker that I can refer to at a later date. When I email or have to leave a message on the answering machine, I expect to get a reply. Not in five minutes, but within a few days. If I don't a reply, I will try again. I will always try a third time. After the third try I will wait a couple of weeks in case the maker is on vacation or has had some emergency to deal with. If after that I haven't heard back from the maker, I will cancel my order.

The above has only happened to me once, and I never did hear back from that maker. For the most part communication has not been an issue.
 
AV8R said:
They make and sell knives. For a living. To customers like us. Without the customer, a full time knifemaker couldn't survive. So when I don't get a call back or have to wait TWO YEARS for a little neck knife, I say forget it. A particular maker may be a great "artist" and make a great knife, but when it goes to their head and they stop appreciating the fact that there are people like us out there, willing to drop $1000+ for a knife that they've made, then as far as I'm concerned, they can keep their knives. The bottom line is that they're in business and have to realize that if the customer isn't treated right and with respect on all levels, "artists" can turn into "starving artists".

Pete
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Pete, you nailed that one, crossed the T's and dotted the i's....don't think anything that you wrote was superfluous, and it hit every point that I was thinking while reading this thread, except the bolded part.

I don't think that "it has gone to his head"....I think Scott is in OVER his head, as far as communication, so he pretty much ignores it....that doesn't work for a lot of us here, but obviously it is going to be a while before that affects his bottom line.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
AV8R said:
They make and sell knives. For a living. To customers like us. Without the customer, a full time knifemaker couldn't survive. So when I don't get a call back or have to wait TWO YEARS for a little neck knife, I say forget it. A particular maker may be a great "artist" and make a great knife, but when it goes to their head and they stop appreciating the fact that there are people like us out there, willing to drop $1000+ for a knife that they've made, then as far as I'm concerned, they can keep their knives. The bottom line is that they're in business and have to realize that if the customer isn't treated right and with respect on all levels, "artists" can turn into "starving artists".

Pete
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Pete, I'm a little confused by your and Danbo's mention of having to wait two/three years for a "little neck knife"? Are you guys saying that someone who orders a simple knife should be placed ahead of someone who's ordered a complex knife?
 
guys please understand that i dont care if he communicates me while waiting on an order. the issue is when one has a knife in need of some work and scott will not answer emails or calls. to me a maker who refuses to communicate is also a maker that has no warranty.
 
severedthumbs said:
guys please understand that i dont care if he communicates me while waiting on an order. the issue is when one has a knife in need of some work and scott will not answer emails or calls. to me a maker who refuses to communicate is also a maker that has no warranty.
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As much as I hate to admit it, the lad is making sense.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kevin Jones said:
Pete, I'm a little confused by your and Danbo's mention of having to wait two/three years for a "little neck knife"? Are you guys saying that someone who orders a simple knife should be placed ahead of someone who's ordered a complex knife?
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Only thing I'm saying is, there's NO excuse for a maker to completely ignore people on their waiting list. Heck, I've been known to wait a lot longer than 3 years for a knife, but the makers I waited that long for kept me updated. Nobody but you even brought up anybody being placed ahead of another person.
 
Danbo said:
Only thing I'm saying is, there's NO excuse for a maker to completely ignore people on their waiting list. Heck, I've been known to wait a lot longer than 3 years for a knife, but the makers I waited that long for kept me updated. Nobody but you even brought up anybody being placed ahead of another person.
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As I said, I was just a little confused or probably more curious as to why you both mentioned having to wait 2-3 years specifically for a little neck knife rather than say a hunter or bowie. It just seemed that Pete may be more disturbed by having to wait for a small knife than one larger and/or more complex.
If that was the case (not saying it was), I just wondered why?
 
Anyone here with a broken Lochsa needing service from Scott? I'll gladly pay you $500 for it, no questions asked.
 
bluejaunte said:
Anyone here with a broken Lochsa needing service from Scott? I'll gladly pay you $500 for it, no questions asked.
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How about a not-at-home repairable over-compensating lockbar?

That was my problem, however, I got almost 1k for it.:eek:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I mentioned the "two years" thing as a reference to Danbo's earlier post. It can easily be inferred that Danbo never expected to have to wait YEARS for the knife at the time he ordered and that Scott probably could have fairly easily fulfilled his comittment to deliver a SMALL NECK KNIFE within a time frame reasonably close to what would have been expected at the time it was ordered. The "small neck knife" aspect is significant in that it's not like he got backed up trying to build a bowie that one up's Edmund Davidson's "Orgasmatron". Anyway, that's how I took Danbo's post and I don't think I was reading too much into it. If Danbo had been told to expect a wait of 2 years or more, then I'm sure he wouldn't complain about it. Nor would I. The fact is, I will readily order a neck knife that requires a 2 year wait and be happy about it. As long as I know up front that it will take roughly 2 years. If I'm told 6 months and it takes 2 years and it's a knife that takes 3 days to make, I'm not happy.

Here are some specifics from the "cold case files". I phoned and emailed Scott quite a while ago (maybe last summer) and told him I'd like to talk to him about ordering a Lochsa. No response. I phoned Tom Krein and said I'd like info on a new model he had. No response. I had three model 2's on order with Walter Brend, waited until beyond promised delivery time, called to check up on things, was asked "who are you, what did you order, sorry, I forgot about you, I'm not taking any orders right now, maybe you can get one at a show, BTW my prices have basically doubled since you ordered....I had a nice large classic hunter made by S.R. Johnson, had someone wanting to buy it, I called Steve, told him the deal and said "hey, if I sell it, will you make me another one?" He said sure, I might have to wait 6 months and it would be 2 or $300 more than the original was. I ordered the knife from Steve on the spot, did my deal, waited 6 months, called back and was told the new price would be the equivalent of $900 more than my original knife and that he's not sure when he can get me one because the 2 similar knives he made, which I came up with the idea for and everyone seems to like, were going to the Guild show with him and were already spoken for. Nice, huh? Anyway, I'm typing fast and sloppy because I have to run, but I think you guys get the idea and I hope the "specifics" help a little........

Pete
 
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There are so many honorable, upstanding craftsmen out there, that the "less than honorables" are insignificant (and don't deserve your $$). Jess Horn, Phill Hartsfield (if Phill says "2 years", then he calls you in exactly 2 years), Daniel Winkler, many others..................

Pete
 
The custom knife world is big enough that customers and collectors have many options regarding how they choose to acquire excellent knives. I'm in the minority who will only purchase finished knives that I can personally examine - either at a show or because the maker (with whom I may already have an established relationship) is willing to send me the knife for examination.

My policy has less to do with impatience than with the fact that orders and wait lists can be a set-up for friction and negativity in one's relationship with the maker, as has been described above in this thread and in many other threads in the past. The only reason this matters to me is that I'm the type of collector who values a positive on-going relationship with makers whose work I choose to purchase or collect over time. I understand this isn't always so important to other collectors and naturally, my way of thinking and doing is for me and not to be imposed on anyone else or used by me to make anyone feel uncomfortable about how they think and do as regards acquiring their own knives.

I start with the assumption that we (the maker and me) are equals in the transaction. Being placed on a wait list immediately negates that equality, for this simple reason: Assuming most makers stick to the list, taking each order in turn without exception, telling their preferred customers they will have to wait in line like everyone else, or turning down (out of a sense of fairness to those on the wait list) a profitable, career-advancing or otherwise compelling project they would like to work on now, is to be in denial about the truth of human nature.

I respect the primacy and power of human nature AND the maker's right to make whatever they want, whenever they choose and for whomever they like. The maker and I are equals in an inter-dependent relationship - artists need patrons and art-loving patrons need artists. Honesty and mutual respect are required. The dynamics of wait lists (and deposits) don't favor the kind of balance that is important to me.

Wait lists are not neutral and they do introduce a certain inequality into the relationship that puts the customer in a one-down situation, and places the maker in a tight spot too. If you doubt this, consider the following:

Let's say that starting next week we'll all reverse the pattern. Makers will now have to get on their preferred collectors' wait lists in order to sell a knife. The best collectors will have long lists and makers will have to wait sometimes years to place their knife in that quality collection. They will also have to trust the collector, accept (or walk away) any and all explanations as to why said collector has been delayed in terms of readiness to complete the transaction etc. etc. etc. How many makers would vote for such a reversal? None. Why? Given the present state of supply and demand, they don't need to.

The bottom line is that in any economic system the ingredient in shortest supply controls that system. Right now the ingredient in shortest supply is the quality custom knife by the sought-after maker. However, if it ever comes to pass, as has happened many times throughout history, that currency becomes the ingredient in shortest supply, things will quickly change.

Fortunately for most makers and customers today, wait lists are a good-enough compromise to keep the whole system running more or less effectively. They just don't work for me.
 
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There are so many excellent makers out there that communicate with there clients I do not know why anyone would deal with someone who does not. If my lawyer does not call me back he is fired and if a knife maker does not call me back I am not interested in his work. When it comes to wait times it is what it is and I do not need him to calll me every three months or so to keep me updated. But if he say's two years and he does not reach out in two years he can keep it. Don't get me wrong if he calls and says he has been delayed there is no problem everyone has setbacks. But if he does not communicate with me deal is off. As was mentioned before I think alot of maker quote prices to far out and as there work gains in value why would they fullfill an order at a cheaper price than they can sell the knife for. I think this is BS don't quote prices unless you can keep your word only a drastic price jump in materials would warrent this. Like I said before with so many honorable makers out there who needs the less than honorable.
 
This has morphed into more of a general topic than one specific maker. I would like to bring it back to that maker, and my commentary can certainly be applied to other makers.

Was lucky enough to know Scott back in the day, as I had stated before, and checked in with him at the Blade where he debuted the Lochsa. It was an impressive knife, even back then, and was priced right. Scott has a certain grit and stubborn quality which, I imagine, would be necessary to massage and machine a knife frame from a solid block of titanium. He is also a soft-spoken and humble person.

I would imagine that his personality traits would make certain aspects of running his own business less than total nirvana, and he has decided to “accentuate the positive, and eliminate the negative”.

If Buddy’s assertation that being on a waiting list skews a relationship with a maker, so does knowing that maker, wanting some of their work at REASONABLE prices(this is up to individual definition) and not being able to get it, rather poisons that relationship a bit, I might think.

We always discuss how important communication is with the relationship of maker and buyer…and how the lack of communication from either side is probably the number one killer of successful relationships between maker and buyer. I would simply submit that there are no irrelevant aspects to this relationship if ONE of the parties is put off, and unable to resolve the issue.

For me, being unable to communicate with Scott made me REALLY not want my Lochsa, 4 e-mails and 6 phone calls spread out over 4 months=sort of a virtual shutout….and there was another collector out there who had no expectation of communication with the maker, just wanted the knife.

So, for me....I like Scott, and wish him no ill will, and would help him if he needed it. I would accept a knife from him as a gift, and keep it....but I will NOT BUY one if that makes any sense.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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No matter how much I might like the Lochsa, or any of Scott's other knives I'm hard pressed to find a way around the issue of a maker who, by virtue of his unresponsiveness, gives many of his customers the impression that they don't exist. Sporadic problems with getting in touch can certainly be explained and dealt with reasonably. What gets said about Scott in this regard seems practically monolithic, which makes it all the more unreasonable.

What if some other maker were to come along with a better, or equally good but less expensive, way to skin the cat on an integral Ti folder, along with responsive service? Then Scott might find his waiting list bolting for greener pastures and maybe he couldn't do enough to make up for all the communication he skipped out on over the years. It baffles me that someone would let their talent and success at knifemaking potentially be undermined by the refusal to answer a phone call or an email. Just doesn't seem worth it.
 
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