OT: 25 meter ocean waves

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Jan 26, 2002
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When somebody talks about waves higher than 50 feet, is is usually garbage. Often they are estimating difference between crest and trough, and then that is exagerated. Wave amplitude is 1/2 the height from crest to trough. Not that it isn't hard to be objective when in the trough of even a moderately sized wave. Hard to measure too.

Another reason to be skeptical is that the person is there to make the claim--an encounter with such a wave will often sink or severely damage even the largest of ships:

WP10003.jpg


But recent data including a satellite study shows that 25 m waves are not as uncommon as previously thought.

Ship-sinking monster waves revealed by ESA satellites
21 July 2004
Once dismissed as a nautical myth, freakish ocean waves that rise as tall as ten-storey apartment blocks have been accepted as a leading cause of large ship sinkings. Results from ESA's ERS satellites helped establish the widespread existence of these 'rogue' waves and are now being used to study their origins...

...Severe weather has sunk more than 200 supertankers and container ships exceeding 200 metres in length during the last two decades. Rogue waves are believed to be the major cause in many such cases...

...two large ships sink every week on average, but the cause is never studied to the same detail as an air crash. It simply gets put down to 'bad weather'...

...Objective radar evidence from this and other platforms – radar data from the North Sea's Goma oilfield recorded 466 rogue wave encounters in 12 years - helped convert previously sceptical scientists, whose statistics showed such large deviations from the surrounding sea state should occur only once every 10000 years.

The fact that rogue waves actually take place relatively frequently had major safety and economic implications, since current ships and offshore platforms are built to withstand maximum wave heights of only 15 metres...

..."ESA provided us with three weeks' worth of data – around 30,000 separate imagettes – selected around the time that the Bremen and Caledonian Star were struck. The images were processed and automatically searched for extreme waves at the German Aerospace Centre (DLR)."

Despite the relatively brief length of time the data covered, the MaxWave team identified more than ten individual giant waves around the globe above 25 metres in height...


Surely more likely to get struck by lightening, but pretty amazing, none the less. Good thing they occur individually, hard to imagine any vessel surviving an encounter with more than one!

But it is worth remembering that even in ordinary storms, a rogue wave much larger than the rest can occur. A small craft coping with 15 foot waves may encounter a 30-footer, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Such waves can and have ripped the cabin roof right off the deck. That's how boats can vanish without a trace.

For anyone interested in reading about what such things are like, preferably while in a warm, dry place, the book "Heavy Weather Sailing" by K. Adlard Coles, is a fine book with both compelling accounts, detailed analysis, and quite amazing photos of things that rarely get photographed. It is a classic standard, and the 30th Anniversary Edition that I found in my local library contains lots of new additions--lot of stuff in older versions has been replaced because the intent of the book is to provide information that reflects current technology. So reading an old version, and the newest version provides almost twice as many stories.
 
And for the less than literate version, see the Discovery Channel.

Drowning strikes a particular terror.



munk
 
grab your boards dudes !!


:p

biggest I ever surfed was 12 foot and I came with a broken board, no trunks and 2 lungs full of water !!

The lifegaurd was a great kisser though - Pity it was a dude !!


;)
 
Er....Brendan?

Were you wearing trunks when you went OUT? :p




Love to Jillie


Kis
 
Heres a bit more on the wave photo in the article:

Some say that it is the only photo of a rogue wave.

The picture below was taken on the oil freighter Esso Languedoc outside the coast of Durban (1980). The man who took it, Philippe Lijour, estimated the mean wave height when this occurred to be about 5-10 m. The mast on the starboard side is 25 m above the mean sea level. The wave approached from behind and broke over deck, but caused only minor damage.


vague-lijour05.jpg


http://www.math.uio.no/~karstent/waves/index_en.html

Good stuff at this site too:

http://www.uscg.mil/news/PerfectStorm/Realstorm.html
 
I'm in the container shipping biz and 2 ships a week sounds excessive. about 14,000 containers are lost at sea each year, that's 5-10 ships worth. But that may just be ones that fall off ships. I read about those waves. It sure explains a lot!
 
Brendan said:
grab your boards dudes !!


:p

...I came with a broken board, no trunks and 2 lungs full of water !!

I guess that's better than ending up with a broken board, no lungs and your trunks full of water. :eek: ;)

--Josh
 
CA-72 USS PITTSBURGH

Displacement 13,600 Tons, Dimensions, 673' 5" (oa) x 70' 10" beams x 26' 10" (Max draft)

This is what she looked like before the 1944 storm.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/0407201.jpg

This is what she looked like afterwards.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/0407203.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/0407205.jpg

She had a 104 foot section of her bow ripped off.

****edit: if the links fail to come up for you, just copy the address to your address bar and it will work****

n2s
 
Dang! By what?

Godzilla....uhmmm...although the history books called it a typhoon (a hurricane that rotates in the opposite direction -i.e. Pacific Ocean).

There were two major storms that hit our Pacific fleet during 1944. I am not sure whether the Pittsburgh was damaged during the November storm off Leyte, or the December storm off Mindoro; but, these storms also damaged the 45,000 ton battleships North Carolina(BB55) and Washington(BB56) and sunk or seriously damaged a dozen other ships. At least three destroyers were sunk with most of their compliment (SPENCE, MONAGHAN and HULL). One of the Fleet carriers (as in full sized front-line warship) had its forward flight deck collapsed and Some 180 odd airplanes were also wrecked or washed overboard from it and other accompanying aircraft carriers. 800 sailors from task force TG38.3 lost their lives, many were wounded.

Here is a photo of the North Carolina (taken on December 12 - the storm peaked on the 18th with 100Kt winds and 70 foot seas).
http://www.battleshipnc.com/history/bb55/wwii/battles/images/301356_typhoon.jpg

There is an interesting diary available here:
http://alumni.nrotc.tulane.edu/Philly_to_Tokyo/Philly_to_Tokyo_ch06.htm

n2s
 
Not quite 25 meters, but I do have a photo of someone SURFING a 66 foot wave, which is a world record! If someone would like to post it, I'd be more than happy to e-mail it out...

Dan :)
 
"Dang! By what?"

Moving water and gravity.

Very large waves are often much steeper than usual and they often break, especially when they encounter the vessel--they are intrinsically unstable. That is a lot of water getting dumped on top of you.

And lets not forget, if one is properly measuring the wave, just before or after that high mass of water piles into, or breaks on top of you, you'll encounter a deep hole in the water and drop like a rock.

Bad combination. For smaller vessels, it can literally be like getting picked up and dropped, perhaps on the beam (side). This can create tremendous damage since that is the part of the vessel that normally experiences the least stress.

Here is another link. BTW, they say that one ship is lost per week.

Currently the biggest wave factored into most ship design is smooth, undulating and 15m high. A freak wave is not only far bigger, it is so steep it is almost breaking. This near-vertical wall of water is almost impossible to ride over - the wave just breaks over the ship. According to accident investigator, Rod Rainey, such a wave would exert a pressure of 100 tonnes per square metre on a ship, far greater than the 15 tonnes that ships are designed to withstand without damage. It's no wonder that even ships the size of the huge freighter München lost in 1978 can sink without trace.

The München was a 43,000 ton ship. Well-found and well-maintained. She managed to get off a distress call. A huge search of the Mid-Atlantic produced little more than a single lifeboat with fittings that suggested it had been ripped from the deck (20 m above waterline) with great force.

Another thing that can happen is a vessel encounters conditions of very large regular waves/swell whose crests are separated by a distance (wave-length) equal to the length of the vessel. This puts enormous stress on the vessel over a long period of time because it is impossible to ride up and down as on longer waves, and the hull repeatedly is subjected to conditions where it is mainly floating on it's middle, or it's ends. violent pitcing occurs. Several sinkings are attributed to such conditions. What is known as parametric rolling can also occur when heading into seas of a wavelength equal to the vessel, (more often it occurs with following seas)--the frequency of the wave-imparted motion matches the natural rolling frequency of the vessel. This is bad. It is like pushing someone on a swing, and after a couple of waves the vessel can be rolling at dangerously large angles like 40 degrees, or more. This is how a lot of containers get lost from ships' decks.

The bigger the ship, the the bigger the waves that will match the wavelength and these waves will carry more energy. These forces want to bend the ship. Make a slight mistake in heading, and they suddenly can suddenly want to roll it over.

So it seems possible to drive anything into a capsize or literally to pieces in a storm, if the craft is mishandled.

Uneven force distribution along the length, whether due to loading or sea conditions, is serious business for a very large vessel. Here is a nice description of a supertanker which includes some discussion of this.

"Loading is the most difficult part of the job. You may think the Den Haag looks very strong, but in port if you make a false move in loading, it is entirely possible to snap her in two, like a match.

"As you know, the Den Haag is a very long ship. She has to be to provide the Aeaiitsd capacity. But precisely because she is long this ship is vulnerable to the stresses we call 'sagging' and 'hogging.'

Holding up a long yellow pencil, the First Officer pressed down with his thumbs on the center. The center bent downward and the eraser and the point bent upward and the pencil broke in two.

"That's sagging," he said.

He picked up another pencil, pressed up with his thumbs and down with his fingers. That pencil broke, too, but in an upward direction.

"And that's hogging.


Big vessels can be more fragile than smaller.

These forces, from normal conditions, are what cause ships to wear out, and become unseaworthy. When such ships are not retired, they can suddenly break in half in a "normal" storm. I suspect that a lot of old ships with just this issue are what account for many of the ships sinking when the 1 or 2 per week number is mentioned. In a lot of the world, ship traffic is pretty much unregulated, existing regulations are ignored, and vessels are being used beyond their safe lifetime.. Here's an interesting though long article on the topic which describes the sinking of such a vessel.(Also modern-day piracy, and general anarchy. It is especially bad in the Mallaca Strait)

It is safer to travel in modern vessels, but still have to respect the ocean no matter what the vessel is.

Edited to fix improper link syntax
 
munk said:
Wow. So, what is the best khukuri to fight these large waves?
munk

Entering the realm of philosphy,

Humbleness and respect for forces greater than oneself, or indeed, the best that human techology can offer.

Hmmmm, sounds kind of Bhuddist to me.

Hubris is lethal in the real world, as opposed to those creations that are fabrications of humanity.

To bring out the standard,

What does this have to do with khukuris? Everything.
 
I spoke with one of our Ship Superintendents and he told me that he doesn't like going to sea anymore :)
He's seen some rough seas on container ships. He was communicating with the container ship depicted in The Perfect Storm.
The 1-2 large vessels a week sounds right, but most of those aren't tankers or container ships. We generally hear about it when one of those go down.

Here are DrDan's pictures of the 66 foot wave being surfed:
 
they had a show on this subject on the discovery channel, that talked about mega tsunami's caused by falling rock mass's. truly incredible, 75% of mountain sides completely treeless is a site to see.
 
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