OT: Caos in San Francisco. Stupid protesters.

B

Broken Arrow

Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
651
These liberal anti-war protesters are making my night go by fast!!! More than 50 arrests so far,and the night is still young. Stay tuned. I need to go out again and try to stop the trouble makers.
 
I thought they were supposed to be marching for peace. Sure sounds like it OK! Some peace and a fine example.
 
We have more counter protesters out here in SD than there are anit-war protesters I believe. This afternoon it almost got ugly when they met head on at the navy base here. My favorite line from an old Navy guy that was there was, "See these colors? Red, white, and blue, and you sick liberal fuks are the kind of people that burned them during Vietnam. I was spit on coming back, but God knows we won't let none of you liberal pu$$ies pull that $hit now. We love our military sons and daughters, and they will fight this fight, so that you can b!tch and moan again in the future!"

I love this Navy/Marine city.
 
Is it just me, or are alot of these "protestors" just disgruntled democrats who are just looking for an excuse to attack the administration? Im ashamed to say my sister and her friends are the protestin type. I always ask her why she's protesting, and she quotes me a lame slogan she's been programmed with. Then I question the validity of whatever lame slogan she's picked up, and she draws a blank stare and gets mad that I have the nerve to question the drivel she's been programmed with (and of course she never has a reply).:( I wouldnt mind so much if she was truly protesting because she truly fealt that the war was wrong for a valid reason (not just the bad propaganda that she's been spoon fed), but instead it just reminds me of the Paul Wellstone memorial, just a foul excuse for Democrats to have a highly publicized rally. :mad:
 
These are the same people who would be first to march on Washington if another terrorist attack came and we were unprepared. We call them malcontents.
 
Looks to me like we have more enemy within than we do elsewhere.

Even Clinton come to Austin last week to talk to the UT kids and shortly there were 3,000 demonstrators march to the state capital. I still say that Jack a$$ should have been shot for treason and Hitlery too..
 
Pappy, you can't try someone for treason when the Justice Dept is compromised. Why Bush has not pursued this we will never know. He has claimed executive priviledge over the Rich pardon! It is possible he did not want to blow the country wide open after his narrow victory. That didn't stop the Democrats from obstructing him and blocking his court nominations. He got no credit for being a gentlemen.

Republicans concede when the election is crooked against them, Democrats fight when they lose honestly.

You want to look at The illustration of the culture war in this nation, look no farther than Hillary's victory in NY.

I am guessing the propaganda Federico was referring to was, "No blood for Oil."


munk
 
I received an email with a picture this morning that gets the DSA (Daily Splork Award. In Central Park a group of women stripped naked and lay in the snow, spelling out their anti-war protest message. The message? "NO BUSH"! Try to visualise this, gentlemen and then for extra credit ask yourself why they'd spell out such a self-contradicting slogan!



Stephen
 
This is one of the greatest of rights in this country. The right of free speech and expression is open to all and anyone can hold mny diverse and often conflicting views with out threat of govt censor. It is sad that we often hide behind the flag and when we are the less popular view an yet wave the flag to cover ignornance more often rather then educate ourselves to the "truth". We might not like what others say but is only by the presentation of alternative beliefs that the truth comes out in the end. Freedom of speech and information is one of our greatest of rights in this country whether you agree or disagree, it is your right to to do so. Many countries do not have this right and this is what makes us a free nation. War is a hard and dangerous road an one on which few really think with a clear mind. We should always think to sell our lives dearly and with the most return. The end for many is death and the loss of loved ones. The payment is far an distant for many who speak of war and often many do not think it will be them. I have seen death and often it makes no difference to the dead or their family that they were on the "right"side. A soldier's job is a job. His duty is to do the best he can to obey his orders and live no matter wich side.. His utilization is only a result of the failure of the politics and governments ability to deal with a situation. I have the greatest of sorrow for the innocents and the soldiers who will die on both sides. Life is so rare and yet it is treated so common.
 
China, i use my vote and voice to do everything I can to prevent more 9-11's; more of which could easily topple the world into a grave chaos where many many more lives would be lost. The French have other interests in this issue; they have oil contracts with Iraq which they need desperately, they've given Saddam means to make weapons of mass destruction and that will come out after any invasion, and they want to topple the US as leader and enhance their own strategic position. Many people in Europe enjoy the right of protest because the US fought the Cold war and won. Europe has been insulated from pain for a generation and the result is simplistic sayings like, "No blood for Oil"

By all means let voices be raised. And by all means do not let us be swayed from the task of dealing Terror a mortal blow.

munk
 
I've always thought that "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" was an act of treason.:grumpy:
 
I've always thought that "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" was an act of treason. servetech

The two Congressmen who flew to Iraq to tell us how swell Saddam was and how Bush was wrong crossed that line in my opinion. They were on not only foreign soil but enemy foreign soil.


munk
 
I'll plead guilty to rhetoric, Beo, but I like my bottom line better than the alternative.

Actually, some of the war protest is from the far right. I am normally in that bunch, not wanting to see civil rights further erroded, but in time of war I understand some rights are always relinquished.



munk
 
Just some pieces of info.

Originally posted by munk
The French... ... they've given Saddam means to make weapons of mass destruction and that will come out after any invasion.
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It has already come out to the media and public awareness that both France and USA gave Iraq the means to produce weapons of mass destructions. France is not trying to stop something that has already happened.


Originally posted by munk

The French have other interests in this issue; they have oil contracts with Iraq which they need desperately,
Click to expand...

Sure thing. But after a Western friendly government is operational in Iraq (after a war) all Western companies will finally be allowed to freely compete for oil contracts there. Those who are most competitive in the world on this is those who already have desert experience from Texas. The French sure know this and are trying to avoid that. Selfish Frenchies, yes, just like anybody else in the game.


Originally posted by munk

Europe has been insulated from pain for a generation and the result is simplistic sayings like, "No blood for Oil"
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I would have to say no.

Europe prefers a different solution than a war because they were invaded, occupied, murdered, tortured and raped during WW2. The memory of this has been passed down in the younger generations. The memory of an occupation does not dissapear with the death of one or two generations.

Also the Soviet Union won WW2 and occupied half of Europe and threatened the other half. We have been living with Soviet tanks driving along our borders for quite some time, even my young generation experienced that, right outside of our own living room! This while we were acting as a potential war zone for USA and the Soviets. This is also remembered by the public memory in Europe.

WW2 and the Cold War are still with us. This is the reason for the thinking done here.
 
You completely misunderstand, Eik, France has given Iraq the means to make Weapons of Mass Destruction AFTER THE EMBARGO- that is what is feared will come out.

Secondly, all former Soviet Bloc nations now free, support the US. That says something; fresh from the yoke people understand freedom and what a threat is.
Europe may prefer a different solution, but we can't afford, nor can the world afford, a business as usual approach to Terror. The scale has changed forever and pretending this is pre 9-11 is insane.
Check terrorism now, get it before it get emboldened and even bigger.

I am getting to the point where I am through with the UN and Nato. France, Belgium, and Germany can make their own self defense contract.


munk
 
Originally posted by munk
You completely misunderstand, Eik, France has given Iraq the means to make Weapons of Mass Destruction AFTER THE EMBARGO- that is what is feared will come out.
Click to expand...

Allright, that I did not know. I will find some sources and update my knowledge.

Originally posted by munk

Secondly, all former Soviet Bloc nations now free, support the US. That says something; fresh from the yoke people understand freedom and what a threat is.
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I expected you to bring that one up.

Well, Eastern Europe is not too Muslim friendly. Eastern Europe is a different world from both Europe and USA. I was not surprised that they would support a war against Muslims.


Originally posted by munk

The scale has changed forever and pretending this is pre 9-11 is insane.
Check terrorism now, get it before it get emboldened and even bigger.
Click to expand...

I know that the US has been hit hard by the terror attacks and you might think no-one understands, but Britain or more specifically England has been hit again and again by the IRA for a length of time I cannot even estimate, innocent people have been killed, families have been ruined. Spain has been hit by the Basques, and not to mention Israel and their constant encounters with terrorism. Others do understand what happened, you are not alone in that respect.

911 and living in constant fear is nothing new, for you maybe, but not overseas.

Originally posted by munk

I am getting to the point where I am through with the UN and Nato. France, Belgium, and Germany can make their own self defense contract.
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I must say I am in the same track of thinking as you here. Why should not Europe manage self defence all alone? Europe could surely manage that given some time for restructuring.
 
The world has never been and I doubt that it ever will be a peaceful and safe haven. But, we have to do our best to try to make it that way.
 
Here's one of the reasons I have problems with alot of the protestors. This all comes from people I know. Before 9-11 they were all angry at Islamic countries for thier treatment of women. Theyd go on Islamic forums and just flame away at the religion, and advocate for the toppling of Arabic and Islamic governments. Now that we are doing what they were advocating just a couple years ago, theyre all angry that we're oppressing such a noble religion, being unfair to Arab governments, attacking Islam, etc... That kind of flip flop pisses me off. Im a big believer that indecision and waffling is one of the biggest evils in this world. It only draws out evil situations and breeds them. We can argue morality in policy, but when the truth comes out every decision is immoral. So I dont buy all this we're in it for the women and children of Iraq crap. If they really were in it for the women and children of Iraq theyd enlist this moment and be on the first transport over. The current protests remind me of an incident covered by NPR a short while back (and NPR is far from being a Right Wing News Group) about a group of Greek doctors working in an Iraqi hospital that tried to stage a protest a few weeks back in Iraq. They tried to find Iraqi people to join them in thier protests against the US, but since they didnt have any of Saddams thugs to help them, they couldnt find anyone. Finally they succeed in paying one woman to wail in front of the cameras, well she wails alright, but as soon as the cameras turn on the woman pleaded for someone in the West to help her sick son who wasnt able to get treatment in the Iraqi hosptital, she pleaded for someone to help him be flown out of Iraq. Later the NPR crew interviewed Iraqi doctors, and when they were given anomynity they complained how the oil for food program was being abused by Saddam's cronies, how while the hospital lacked basic medicines, Saddam's cronies were driving in new mercedes, and new palaces were being made.:barf: When the NPR crew approached the Greek doctors about what the Iraqi doctors were complaining of, all the Greek doctors could do was say while yes Saddam is siphoning funds from aid to go to his cronies, war wasnt the answer.:barf: :mad: Im sorry for the rant, the current protests are just really pissing me off. I believe in free speech, but I also believe just because someone is louder doesnt make them more correct. A thousand people on the street dont always represent the million at home who disagree. Im also tired of people who are so willing to march in protest, yet know so little of the situation besides what some handler told them. I know not all protestors are like that, but I know just too many who are. Discourse is great, debate is great, but Im not a fan of shouting slogans, vandalism and attacking police officers.
 
Originally posted by munk
I'll plead guilty to rhetoric, Beo, but I like my bottom line better than the alternative.

Actually, some of the war protest is from the far right. I am normally in that bunch, not wanting to see civil rights further erroded, but in time of war I understand some rights are always relinquished.

munk
Click to expand...


I don't see how a war on Iraq will do anything to further the 'War on Terror'. I read a story based on a CIA report which said that hitherto there has been no significant terrorism based in Iraq, and that a war at this point in time will only add more kindling to the popular support for Anti-USA terrorism...

I mean, Saddam is not bin Laden - Saddam is not 'in' with the Muslim right wing (he's been 'excommunicated' by numerous Islamic leaders). The shift from bin Laden to Iraq seems to turn on some notion of all arabs being the same... Of course, I don't disagree that Saddam is evil, and that the people of Iraq could be much better off with some other leader.

Terrorism itself isn't new. Modern technology makes it scarier of course, but terrorism itself will always exist so long as there is conflict in the world. To combat terrorism, traditional 'wars' only wouldn't help. One thing which would go a long way to removing the popular support for terrorists like bin Laden would be a different policy with regard to Israel and the Palestinians - specifically to really establish a Palestine and keep Israel from violating it.


I am getting to the point where I am through with the UN and Nato. France, Belgium, and Germany can make their own self defense contract.
Click to expand...

This is one of things which worries me the most. I don't think a war on Iraq at this point in time is wise... BUT much more important in my mind is that the UN isn't completely undermined. If there is no longer any credible international forum, then people in Middle Eastern countries and beyond will feel even more that they are powerless to combat what is seen as 'American bully-ism' except by terrorism. The USA's stance of 'we're going to do what we want no matter what the rest of the world has to say about it' is a large part of the fuel for Anti-Americanism...

Don't misunderstand me, I have great respect for Sarge and other US and British soldiers who are doing their duty. This is as it should be.

But at the same time I see that Bush and Blair are just 'wagging the dog' and trying to whip up 'patriotism' (it's not unpatriotic to disagree with stupidity which will be harmful for the UK and USA themselves in the long run) and thus gain more popular support for themselves.
 
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