OT - Don Needs Advice - Non-Lethal, Concealable Weapon

Kismet
Listed some kind of sprays. Pam or some other oil based cooking spray is a option along those lines. Legal cheap etc. It should not do any long term damage but given the oil base it is very hard to clear from the eyes and get normal vision back, doesn't feel real great either.
 
Cane is a good idea.

Waterbottle is also a good idea. I would choose one of the Lexan (hard, clear plastic) Nalgene brand - about $8. 1 Liter would be a bit slow if full, so you could go down to a 1/2 Liter which would also be more concealable. Tough loop on the top for swinging purposes. They're also available in colors - who would thing you're going to beat them with a pink waterbottle? You'd have to be careful, though. A well-placed head shot from a reasonable strong person could be lethal.

A carabiner - the clips you see everyone with their keys on, started out as climbing gear - would make decent knuckles. You'd have to be a bit choosy to find one that fit your hand (I have skinny fingers) and have a broad finger contact area so you don't break your fingers, too. Go to a camping store that sells climbing gear, they should have a dozen or more different models to choose from. Innocuous looking because they're everywhere these days.

Finally, if you want a purpose-built tool, good stuff has been said about the Spyderco Gunting, though I don't own one myself. There is an edge-less version available - the CRIMPT - which has all the sharp points of the regular version, but the blade is blunted. (CRIMPT is only available directly from the designer, so far as I know) There is also a blunted Training model which has some of the handle points rounded off, but is still servicable as a striking/trapping device. This may have a learning curve, so if you need it NOW it might not be the best option. Gunting + tape training system would probably run $150 -$200 depending on which tapes you got and if you could find one used. Our favorite khuk user (Saint) Jim is also a rabid Guntaholic. Howard Wallace, also an HI fan, posted a review of his edged Gunting on the Spyderco forum, saying it was a great utility knife.

Hope this helps. As Sarge says, keep your head on a swivel. Don't get yourself or anyone else into unnecessary trouble.
 
In ninjutsu, every freakin' thing in the universe is a weapon.
Furthermore, they are all as lethal or nonlethal as you want them to be.
A warrior should know this.
In training recetly I was used by a teacher to demonstrate some combat movements in which the weapon employed was a coffee cup.
(Not a broken cup either)
The way he moved his body and took my balance, blinding and confusing me, that coffee cup became a weapon of unbearable powers.
(At one point the bottom edge of the cup was being grated against that spot inside your mouth where your upper gums meet your upper lip. I was screaming.)
In short, the best concealable, non-lethal weapon you can carry is this attitude of unlimitedness. Anything is a weapon.
(One of the true secrets of ninjitsu)
 
I used to carry a padlock that my middle finger would fit through when I knew trouble could come my way.

The weapon from Cold Steel that Dean was talking about is pronounced Shamboc. That is not how it is really spelled. It is the weapon the South African Police used for riot control. It comes in three lengths if I remember right. The short one would sure do the job. Care must be taken not to cause too much damage to flesh.:) :D
 
Check out the Newt Livesay site.

Newt Livesay home

Sroll down the left column to the LIVESAY FIGHTING CANES STICK & CLUB LINKS. Click on it and check out the $19 oak cane blank, and the tool they call the "Meat Eater"
 
Hi, Danny;

You wrote, "In ninjutsu, every freakin' thing in the universe is a weapon.
Furthermore, they are all as lethal or nonlethal as you want them to be.
A warrior should know this."

Me: Actually, *this* warrior, ie, I, *do* know this. My specification of a non-lethal weapon, is meant as a "legal" description of the device or implement. For example, in California, firearms and bladed weapons are considered "lethal". That is, you can have no use of these weapons that is ever considered other than "lethal force" in a court of law here.

However, something like an ASP baton is not considered a lethal weapon, even though it might yield a lethal outcome.

Also, my specification for a weapon was meant as exactly that - a weapon that was designed from the ground up to be a weapon.

You: "In training recetly I was used by a teacher to demonstrate some combat movements in which the weapon employed was a coffee cup.
(Not a broken cup either)
The way he moved his body and took my balance, blinding and confusing me, that coffee cup became a weapon of unbearable powers.
(At one point the bottom edge of the cup was being grated against that spot inside your mouth where your upper gums meet your upper lip. I was screaming.)
In short, the best concealable, non-lethal weapon you can carry is this attitude of unlimitedness. Anything is a weapon.
(One of the true secrets of ninjitsu)"

Me: Well, near as I recall, I was never trained in the use of a coffee cup or most other items of dinner ware for defensive purposes. My training has been limited to empty hands (wrestling, judo, Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan Karate, and Special Forces Close Quarter Battle), knives, the occasional entrenching tool, swords, handguns, rifles, submachineguns, tank main gun (105mm), 81mm and 4.2" mortar, towed 105mm howitzer, M203 grenade launcher, M60/M2/M85/M240 machineguns, and the claymore mine.

I've had to make do with all of them at one time or another.

As far as makeshift weapons, I've used a length of 2x4, a Junior High school algrebra book, small SureFire flashlight, and even a piece of charcoal. I must admit that of the four, the spine of the math book delivered smartly to my opponent's temple has always left me with a fond appreciation for the benefits of education (grin).

Yes, even though anything can be a weapon, I'd much rather have one designed from the ground up for that task than me trying to improvise one and then somehow train myself on it in a short period of time.

I'm not as young as I used to be, and it's been "a few days" since I last worked out hard in a dojo or on a stretch of ground in a military training area. I'd just as soon not have to make up my weapons and techniques as I go along (smile).

Thanks for your input, Dan. It was appreciated.

Don

[Edit] PS:

Danny, let me apologize for the smarta$$ way I replied. I was out of line. I've been under a huge amount of stress at work lately, not been sleeping well, and now this latest bit of ugliness. It's made me real edgy, and a not very pleasant human being. I'm sorry.

Don
 
Hi, Dean:

You asked, "Effective at what distance?"

Me: Contact distance, maybe a little further.

You: "Effective with how much training?"

Me: Minimal training.

You: "Dissuasive or disabling?"

Me: Either or both.

You: "Low tech or high tech?"

Me: Doesn't matter.

You: "Assuming you are familiar with standard simple weapons of martial arts, or street, or common police/military issue; And that you're looking for something different."

Me: I am.

You: "What area are you looking for?"

Me: Something to add power to punches, or add reach, or to jam or block or lock joints. Kubotans and ASP collapsible batons seem the best choice. I'm not fond of pepper sprays especially with how windy it is here most of the time.

You: "You do say "gizmo";
so electronic / pressure activated / technologic
rather than the newest baton or kubaton or ......?"

Me: Any and all. I'm open minded (smile).

Don
 
Originally posted by Finn
Check into the "Cosh" - a small telescoping baton used by German police.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think so. The question is whether they are prohibited here in California.

Thanks.

Don
 
Originally posted by ddean
Cold steel sells the South African 'lash' that would
fit down a pantleg.
Or even down the back.
I forget the name.

Lest anyone wonder;
yes I abhor violence,
but,
there are times of neccesity &
I Don's one of the good guys out to stop trouble,
not a street hood out to start it.
Click to expand...

Dean;

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah (sighs), I am one of the good guys, and I didn't choose to start this current not-nice situation. I'm hoping it will blow over, but if it won't, then, well, I'm not going to let someone and his buds pound on me without defense just so I can say I took the moral high road, because in my book, righteous self-defense *is* the moral high road (smile).

Don
 
Originally posted by spiraltwista
The cold steel whip is a copy of the south african rhino hide Sjambok, It causes intense pain if you have room to swing it.
Historicaly one lash Makes most people run..

The most discrette & legal weapon I know of is a thin all steel propeling pencil & accurate placement.Guess it can be lethal though, Depends on your placement.

Spiral
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Yep, placement is key. I am skilled enough that a non-lethal placement is within my abilities.

Don
 
Originally posted by ddean
The other question is:

Is this for one-to-one use,
or against more than one?
If the latter, scattergun or repeater.

Also, single use vs limited repeat vs long repeat?

Sorry Don.

I think you're going to have to give a little more direction
to get a useful response.
Click to expand...

Sadly, chances are if I need to go into Condition Red, it will be against multiple assailants. Not very happy about those odds, but then, since when do bad guys care about what makes good guys happy (sad smile)?

I guess you'd have to classify the weapon's "capacity" as "multiple, rapid, repeat capability".

I really do wish this was something that was addressable with a Remington 11-87 Police 12-ga (which I have available to me) and a Glock 27 with a few mag reloads. But, for reasons I can't discuss at present, projectile weapons are out of the question - even pepper sprays are a no-go.
 
Originally posted by Kismet
All Dean's questions are spot on.

but,

aerosol spray cologne/perfume personal sized container.

Thick broad tip magic marker.

Wal mart $1 spray paint (your choice of colors)

Feet...(run)
Click to expand...

All decent ideas, but the magic marker is probably more my style, or for that matter, a wood-handled toilet plunger. No - I'm not kidding (grin).

And "feet"? You better believe it! Mrs. Nelson didn't raise a fool. I look back on every fight I was ever in and I never saw any winners, only folks who hurt less than the other guy.

Don
 
Originally posted by BruiseLeee
Sorta depends if you have to have the thing on your person or if it can sit in the car. Also depends on where you are likely to see such fine folks and how many. Also would you be able to deploy quickly enough. All sorts of stuff to look at. You should also see what da cops would think about you if you would happen to show your friends your new tools.

I keep a surplus entrenching tool in the back seat for digging holes.

I likes da feets.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Hi, Bruise;

Gotta be able to have it on my person and not obvious that it can be used defensively. I'm looking for fresh ideas because I do know that certain implements make the police here in California a bit upset.

Feetses works for me too, but sometimes they don't carry us fast enough (grin).

Don
 
Originally posted by Rusty
Go to: Mendowood and look over their canes. Recommend that you call and talk to the owner/maker, as my 33 inch arrived weighing 40 ozs.

These are hardwood core glued inside galvanized steel and covered with epoxy and industrial black paint to look like blackthorne sticks. I don't know which would come out on top - a Louisville slugger or a Mendowood cane - if they went against each other. But the Mendowood is far heavier that it looks.

I would suggest buying a lighter cane. Even then, it would still have the capacity for lethal blows. Check out his specials, the freehands**. They really look like classy special gentlemen's canes, not weapons.

I have both a 6/6 moly filled nylon 1" walking stick and a cane from Eric Blair that are offshoots of the 3/4" fighting sticks he makes that blow bamboo away. He also had some denser materials you might want to check into. Blair Edged Tools is on the Usual Suspect Net forums. They are near indestructable but lighter than I'd choose to deliver bone breaking blows. They'd do it, but might need a couple shots due to their lightness. The Mendowoods wouldn't.

** On the homepage click on the Catalog button. That will take you to a greater selection than the homepage shows. Then click on the Bargain Basement.
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Hi, Rusty;

Good idea, but can't do the cane thing just yet. Might be able to pull it off over the next few months, but can't do it now. Thanks.

Don
 
Originally posted by Apa6
I have read that for those who have some martial arts training, a fan or umbrella is effective and not considered a weapon if you are searched. Canes could be confiscated in some places. There are lots of disabling martial arts moves from several disciplines which use pressure points to cause pain and stop people without really permanently hurting them.
Click to expand...

The umbrella is a pretty good approximation of what would work quite well actually. But, I live in southern California. Not likely to get much rain or drizzle........
 
Originally posted by ddean
Most fan moves are as applicable to a rolled up magazine,
collapsed umbrella, short stick or stick shape of any kind,
or even a blade.
Fan specific moves are usually hiding another move,
surprising/shocking the opponent,
or distracting/directing their attention.
Click to expand...

Yep. That's why I was kind of chuckling at the notion of a toilet plunger.

Don
 
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