OT: Fitting in

Aardvark

Aardvark

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Nov 26, 2002
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This was just sent to me by a friend. It pretty much expresses my feelings about people who come here to make a better life for themselves: if you are going to go to someone's house as a guest, remember that you are not at home! My parents did that, and so did I. I'm not saying that what we have is perfect, just that changing it and ourselves to fit other cultures that people have left because they didn't like them, doesn't make much sense to me.

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After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver’s license with her face covered this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn’t he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation
worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the “politically correct” crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

“In God We Trust” is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don’t like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don’t care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every! citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
 
We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.
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This part is misleading. Anyone who's read the religious writings of Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and many other Founding Fathers knows what I mean. Novus Ordo Seculorum, remember? This nation's great documents were based on Enlightenment philosophy, which is largely deistic.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
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This part is misleading too. There actually is no official language of the US, and there's nothing wrong with knowing and using other languages. That being said, people should always learn the lingua franca wherever they are, and it serves their own interest to learn English here because it allows them to fully participate as citizens.

The truth is, both immigrants and resident Americans should adapt to each other and take the best each has to offer, because it enriches everyone to expand perspectives and constantly re-examine fundamental principles. E pluribus unum. (I'm in a Latin-quoting mood!)
 
With statements as broad-brush as in the message that I posted, which was written obviously out of extreme frustration, there are usually points which are overstated. The religious issue will always be a touchy one. I don't care what or who people worhip, or if they do.

As far as the language is concerned, I'm not sure what you mean by 'official'. Is there anyone in the world who doesn't think that Americans speak English?
 
Of course English is the de facto language of the US, but it isn't actually 'official' as in 'on the books.' Plus, where I am here in Texas, Spanish is rapidly displacing English in many parts of the state (one county in the south conducts all its government business in Spanish). If one were to argue about them being 'guests,' they could rightly argue back that Spanish-speaking Mexicans were here quite a while before English-speaking Americans. And of course Native Americans were here before them...

Don't get me wrong. There is definitely a limit to be drawn, and the veiled DL pic, if that isn't an urban legend, undoubtedly crosses it. But it's just so easy these days to use 'patriotism' as justification for hate that it's better to seek out ways to express patriotism that doesn't consciously target anybody. For example:

- Help beautify America by cleaning up the environment (eg. chop up dead trees with you khukuris)

- Volunteer time to social causes (tutor at schools, help with neighborhood crime watches, etc., khukuri blem fix-ups)

- Spend time with those same foreigners so that they can practice their English (go khukuri test-chopping with them)
 
Patriotism as an excuse for hate, or oppression, or segregation is intolerable.

I don't bother anyone because of nationality, creed, or any other reason. I help out where I can, regardless of any of these things.

I can't stand litterbugs, noisy neighbors, bad drivers, and other vermin.

I know that there are shades of grey in all of these arguments. The 'who was here first' is one of the most outstanding. I'm also pretty sure there are no right answers.
 
There are some folks who will see that as an eloquent expression by a true American summarizing what they, also, believe.

There are others who will see it as the ranting of a moron who heard it on talk radio while he was drinking a six pack of Bud.

Then there are others who believe that this continent was a much better place before ANYONE migrated here, regardless of where they came from, including the first wave of Asians who later became known as "Native Americans".

I subscribe to all three views.
 
Guys,
Guess I'm a little dif.I see things more black & white than gray!!I think too many people,make excuses for the gray!!
Jim
 
Aardvark:

The Muslim woman in question is not an immigrant. She was born in the US (Chicago, I think), and converted to Islam later in life.
 
Well, you're definitely right in that those coming in need to take the initiative to be contributing members of American society. Once that willingness is shown, it's incumbent on us to help them make the transition. If they show undue reluctance to become those contributing members, we have the right to be suspicious of them.

I guess the reason I feel compelled to speak about the whole issue is because I've had a whole lifetime to think about them. For many years growing up, I was the only minority kid in an all white school and town in rural Pennsylvania. Every day I had people (not just kids, but some teachers too) tell me that I didn't belong here, that I should go back to where I came from (Michigan? :p), etc.etc. I got jumped at school every day for three years! But now that I'm grown up and heavily armed with blades and guns, it's payback time!

50poster.jpg


Wait -- scratch that last part...! :eek:

PS: I hope I didn't come across as accusing you of promoting hate, Aa--. I was just responding to particulars in the original guy's posting. We're on the same side. ;)
 
No, Ruel, I don't feel that you misunderstood.

Dadao, the Muslim woman is irrelevant in this context, except as a catalyst. Could have been anything.
 
As Ben AA colorfully points out, the sum of the parts is what counts. Ignore one of the parts, or forcibly replace it with another, and the sum is lessened.

But, after ignoring the fact that a driver's license should contain a photo suitable for identification purposes it should be accepted that the utility of the license as valid identification is lessened.

What do these people do for passports?? Is identity based upon being vouched for by a male family member or husband?
 
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone treated everyone else like they wanted to be treated and we could get past the religious, racial, economic, etc. barriers that fuel the wrong fires?
 
Aard,
Example!! Languade,Spanish ,Miami!There are quite a number of people that refuse to learn English,go for a job. have to speak Spanish! This is America,language is English ,argue any way you want "main language is English"!! Miami, you must learn Spanish!! People here vote ,politics, person must speak Spanish! Politician can be a excellent politician,honest as the day is long,if a Cuban runs againt him the Cuban wins! He can be dishonest & STILL win!!You say NO WAY!! Wrong,ck out Hialeah!! Just one instance! Not gray!! Black & White!But you say,Jim there is more gray than black & white, to me this is because YOU choose to see it that way! Is there gray?? Of course but NOT to the extent that people insist!
Jim
 
Originally posted by mamav
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone treated everyone else like they wanted to be treated and we could get past the religious, racial, economic, etc. barriers that fuel the wrong fires?
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The problem with that is, some people want to be treated in ways much better than they deserve.

Suppose someone wants to be paid a huge sum of money, without having to work for it? Suppose someone wants your wife or girlfriend to have sex with them, merely because he desires her? Suppose someone wants you to give them your car, merely because he wants it?

I do wish that the goal of all humans was to simply be treated with equality and dignity, and I do wish all humans were capable of it.

Don
 
"Suppose someone wants to be paid a huge sum of money, without having to work for it?"

Then they would go into politics. Or better yet, buy a politician who would get the money for them.
 
Originally posted by Ben Arown-Awile
"Suppose someone wants to be paid a huge sum of money, without having to work for it?"

Then they would go into politics. Or better yet, buy a politician who would get the money for them.
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Yeah, was kinda thinkin' along those lines when I wrote that.

Don
 
Jim,
I don't know what I wrote to make you think that I would find the situation that you describe as anything other than disgusting and divisive. It's the kind of thing that undermines what unity we have left.
 
Interesting debate, multiculturalism vs pluralism, Cultural Studies and Comparative literature course 3979:

"This course is directly concerned with cultural diversity, especially with the ideas which underlie racism, sexism, discrimination. These ideas remain powerful in our thinking, often regardless of our education and experience. The concepts arise cyclically, especially in America and need critical knowledge and thinking to expose them: in the general notions of culture and politics, but also how they arise in the experience of each of us. It is also a course in citizenship and public ethics, as it considers the ideas which underlie our democratic institutions, especially the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. We are reminded during this course that this country was born in slavery, and is in some ongoing tensions with the peoples native to this country. The rest of us are all immigrants in some generation or other, and need to think and do whatever is required to deal with one another in fairness and justice."

One way to look at the debate is Martin Luther King argued for pluralism, Malcom X for multiculturalism. Methods aside, whose ideology was more correct? Can you weigh morality? Is there such a thing as right or wrong? Is everyone truly equal? These are the kind of debates that lead to head-aches, and nose bleeds.:D Though Ruel, I definitely hear ya, growing up in the US has been interesting. Though I got to say, for every dick-head who hurled a slur at me, or tried to beat me up, there have been 10 times more people who have given me a helping hand, a smile, an affirmation of myself as a human being. What other country in this world can boast that it is not perfect, but still symbolize to so many immigrants that it is the bastion of freedom and opportunity.
 
Sorry, Aard, but I have to disagree. The fact that the Muslim woman was not an immigrant is not irrelevant. Yes, she was a catalyst, but she was a catalyst for the wrong reasons. The writer of the Tampa newspaper editorial was inspired by her lawsuit, but I guess it never occurred to him that this woman could be just as much an American citizen as he was. No, because she was Muslim, she just had to be an immigrant, an outsider, a non-American, an example of what his editorial is all about. If he had wanted to address her example properly, he could have written about the Constitutional guarantee of freedom from religious persecution versus non-exclusionary obligations under civil law. But no. Instead, he decided to write about what he disliked most about immigrants.

The truth about immigrants? Most immigrants are hard workers who take the crap jobs no one else wants, encourage their children to learn English and are desperate to learn it themselves, want to be in this country, appreciate and love this country, and do not take it for granted the way so many native-born Americans do. And despite all this, they still face discrimination every day. The ones who want special treatment are a tiny minority usually being manipulated by politicians and activists with their own political agendas.

We're a nation of immigrants. Why do we keep forgetting that?
 
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