OT: Here's a strange one...

Well more accurately we didn't stop them until the war was over, then we and the Russinas took it after WWII... Heard about all that cloning stuff in the media these days? That's Nazi legacy, my friend--cloning, genetics, mapping the human genome, all ya need is some master race wantin' fool at the top, and welcome to the 4th Reich. Read yer history, and check out a little comparative history book called _Ominous Parallels_.

The reason I see both sides of things is that I have the ability to put myself in someone elses shoes, get multiple perspectives, research etc. As I said before, I draw no judgement on good or evil. For example ALL warriors slain in battle go to Valhalla.
During the crusades, Muslim fought christian for the same religious reward--a free ticket to paradise--could their paradises be that different? Their lives sure weren't.
Have you seen images of Japanese WWII vets meeting with US WWII vets, and hugging? They were more like each other in nature and experience, they just happened to be on diff sides @ the time. In Iraq, Japan actually deployed as our allies, as did Germany. Only time and circumstance have been reconfigured.
NDNs fought with the colonists agains the British, then against Colonists, and later along side the occupiers of the US. Teutonic tribes fought against Rome, then later fought for their army against tribes they were once allied with, then fought Roman occupation of territory, and so on.

Nazis, Iraquis, Israelis and Americans have these things in common:
They can love, hate kill, bleed red, wipe their arse, have a job, be patriotic, be deluded, be conservative, be fanatical, be confused, and so on. If we spent more time drawing commonalities than lines in the sand, we'd all be better off fer it.

As fer the judgement call--first you say it is a judgement call , then ya say it isn't. I think you're just trying to confuse me.
I think some book says "Judge not, lest ye be judged," but I could be mistaken...

bla blah bla OT bla blah...

Keith
 
Uh, I think they'd be too worried they'd accidentally chafe the skin mites living down there.

Do they use soap? If they had lice or and infection, would they just "let it be?"

Keith
 
Oh Ferrous-

Yes, everything is relative. Except everything is not- that is, a tree falling on you, a croc taking a bite; no one really cares if a crane falling or shark biting would have have been worse. There is real starvation, real pain, real food, etc. The point is this- in a world where everything can at least be 'seen' as relative, it is the responsibility of men to make value judgements neccessary for action and living. That is the intrinsic, sacred job of living. These judgements are for the health of one and the health of the whole. We make value judgements and men are in prison. We are going to make a value judgment this November.

And no, GWC is not historically as important as GW. Not even close.
AS for both sides of the fence- I was born there.

take care, always enjoy a little mystic wandering with you.

munk
 
Ferrous, in all sincerity, when I'm at my best, I don't make sense.


On the other hand, you, in all your logic, can't make the same judgement History does regarding GWC and GW; both great, though one eclipsing the other in importance.

You realize I have an impish quality, right? And that I'm in serious danger now of suggesting this is all relative.....


munk
 
http://www.peanutbutterlovers.com/history/

Carver populized Peanut butter, but saying he invented it is a bit extreme, and not true.

BTW it was pretty common in the early 19th century to use "George Washington" as first and second names for sons (apparently especially second and third sons). My own GGgrandfather was named George Washington. and he was born in approximately 1820.
 
Ye bastid! Aaaugh!!;)

Munk, we always seem to meet at the bike racks after school a bit bloody-minded, then we talk and shake hands instead.

Geroge Washington Carver's at least as cool, he has about 33% more name than George Washington! GWC was also much more gifted..with melanin! All GW could do while GWC was making the world a better place was..decompose!
There's an old joke that GWC used to tell his inventor buddies about GW not being able to drive a stagecoach...because he was dead!

:DHeeheehehe:D

Keith
 
Ferrous Wheel said:
The reason I see both sides of things is that I have the ability to put myself in someone elses shoes, get multiple perspectives, research etc. As I said before, I draw no judgement on good or evil. For example ALL warriors slain in battle go to Valhalla.

Keith
Click to expand...

Are "we" perfect"? No. Does the beast come out in war on all sides. Yes. Are all causes equally good - or bad? A big "No!" There is good. There is evil - exhaultation and worship of the beast that lies just beneath the thin layer of "civilization" in all races, cultures, nations.

I simply cannot accept equating Hitler, Satin, Pol Pot, and their ilk with Churchill, Roosevelt, and George Washington. If Hitler's political SS go to Valhalla, I hope my four uncles who were WWII vets are not there.

IMO, moral relativism and so-called moral equivalency = :barf:
 
While I greatly enjoy reading these discussions, may I suggest that we start a yahoo listserver ? That way those of us who are interested in these "off topic" topics have a place to read them and thrash it out, without wasting BF's bandwidth?

I'll volunteer to not moderate it.


But anyway, being able to look at a situation from different POV's is a hard skill to learn, and in my opinion a very valuable one. That doesn't mean that one must adopt that outlook though as the truth.
 
45/70
according to the Powers That Be- these conversations here are OK.

We try and stay sane and kind as we write.


Thomas Linton, you'd better hope your 4 Uncles are there if Hitler arrives, we'll need them.

If he hasn't changed any we'll just kick his butt all over again- and maybe through him out into Hell, whatever that is. I'm ready to make that value judgement.

The Modern Age resists making value judgements- equating these with fascism. Just watch any parody of any "Christian' on TV to see what I mean.

It is the challenge of this or any age to make good ones- accurate ones- ones we can live with and up to. I say again- of course we will fail, but that's part of the consequences of living. We make mistakes.

In Southern Ca they did not log or thin trees. It was their 'value judgement' under a narrowly percieved animal rights view, that the forest would be healthier without. Now they have no forest, no animals to have rights, and little habitat left.

Everyone has intrinsic worth, but Hemingway wrote a better book than Forest Carter, and I love Forest Carter.

munk
 
uniformsblackhawks.jpg
chelios7.jpg

Blackhawks_bp905.jpg



I always thought that these are the coolest jerseys in the NHL, and that I'd be proud to wear one. The image to me as a kid was one of fierce nobility, and I never thought of them as degrading. Matter of fact I thought that people wore them because they wanted to imagine that they were indian warriors when they played hockey, because they admired indians. I still like to think that. :) Those logos are just plain cool.

My jersey is my avatar, and it's supposed to impress people. I wouldn't put anything that wasn't cool on my shirt. That's why I had a '99' on my helmet too!
 
philthygeezer said:
I always thought that these are the coolest jerseys in the NHL, and that I'd be proud to wear one.

The image to me as a kid was one of fierce nobility, and I never thought of them as degrading.
Click to expand...
But to the ndn these kinds of images and logos are demeaning, offensive and sterotypical let alone insensitive.:(
 
DannyinJapan said:
do janists jerk off?
i mean, sperm are micoorganisms, arent they ?
just curious...
Click to expand...


Actually the religion is Jainism and its followers are

called jains. Usually only their priests and certain

followers who have renounced the material world wear

those masks and sometimes sweep before them.Most of the

jains i know are a simple, devout and hardworking

people.They follow what they believe in and dont

usually waste their time taking apart other religions

and their rituals and practices.
Maybe some of us can learn from them because most religions and religious practices dont hold up to close examination very well :D :D :D
Yaj.
 
Yvsa said:
But to the ndn these kinds of images and logos are demeaning, offensive and sterotypical let alone insensitive.:(
Click to expand...

:(

Then I'd be willing to forego the jersey so as not to offend people I like and respect. And you have my apologies for posting the images. :) I'll edit the post and take them down if you like.

Real people are more important than ideals and concepts. Ideals and concepts are supposed to help people live peaceful rewarding lives together.

I guess I've grown up in a culture where we celebrate our differences and wear them like jerseys. If there was a hockey team called the Brinkers or the Flying Dutchmen, I'd probably get a kick out of it. Especially if they wore stupid-looking baggy trousers and had wooden shoes and cheese for logos.

:D

EDIT: Then again, that Dutch portrayal in Austin Powers was just plain stupid. Except for the 'smoke and a pancake' part. :barf:
 
Yuh NSuh?

I dunno.

I suppose I could take offense to the pugnacious Irishman logo of that school in South Bend, Indiana...forget the name now.

"Irish need not apply," was a sign found in a lot of store fronts at one time in America.

The Blackhawk logo has always seemed respectful, not derisive. I take offense at the behaviors of Atlanta Braves' fans, and the cartoon image they use.

I honor your opinion.

But I may disagree with it in this case.


Kis
 
The problem is that the ndn problem is still very much alive and well over different parts of the states.
Personally I feel that the fact that us ndns don't like to be used as mascots should be enough.:rolleyes: It most certainly would be for any other ethnic group.:(
 
(big red fist in the air ) Red Power !!!
kinda staying outta this one
I trust Ysva as my AIM spokes skin


here is a poem by a friend and poetry student
http://indiancountry.com/?2671

modern NDN art

[size=-1]ARE YOU HUNGRY FOR PIZZA?[/size]

[size=-1]My Uncle Verlin was 40 years my senior
When questioned about his ethnicity he would respond
"Mostly Sioux Indin', part German,
and when it comes to the drink,
full-blooded Irishmn"
Uncle Verlin lived to be an old man
Raised on a ranch,
on a South Dakota Reservation by my grandparents
Uncle Verlin was a true cowboy Indian
Living out his life like the songs Hank Williams Sr.
and Woody Guthrie lamented about
Drifting
Drinking
Leaving a trail of about a 1/2 dozen pissed off ex-wives
And children, claimed and unclaimed
Along the path of his life[/size]

[size=-1]One night Uncle Verlin and I polished off a fifth of whiskey
Hungry we decided on pizza
He had seen the TV commercials of Pizza Hut
and wanted to eat at one for the first time[/size]

[size=-1]Upon our arrival
Teenage white kids were working
A white boy asked us from behind the counter
what we wanted to order
The biggest pizza you have with alot of extra cheese,
Uncle Verlin said
The white kid asked what he wanted for toppings
Uncle Verlin responded
Tiny little white men
The kid behind the counter looked bewildered asking 'what?'
Tiny tiny little white men on my pizza
'Uh sir we don't have that topping do you want a different topping?'
NO! I want only tiny tiny little white men on my pizza
The white boy behind the counter now looked **** scared
After that Uncle Verlin and I lost it
We laughed and laughed all the way home carrying our pizza
with Italian sausage topping[/size]

[size=-1]After all
Columbus was Italian
We thought it the next best choice for a pizza topping[/size]
 
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