OT It shall come about! HOPE NOT

Nam, before 1968, all the NRA did was teach people to shoot and use guns responsibly. After that gun control act, they realized they must become political. They continue to be active in training Olympic team shooters, though the relationship has been changed in recent years due to politics.

They lobbied against the campaign finance laws which restricted their ads prior to a National Election. They did this for the obvious reason; the NRA today still cannot adverstise in many venues; the NYT for instance has refused to place their ads on many occasions. They cannot hope to compete with the Mainstream liberal bias against gun owners and guns. This bias has eased some in recent years, but is still prevelant and deep. 90 percent of news people voted for John Kerry this last election. They don't vote Republcan, and don't vote pro gun. This does have an effect on their coverage of gun related issues.

I happen to think the Court erred when it struck down only a few provisions of campaign finance reform. No matter, I and other members have urged the NRA to establish a 527(?)

The NRA also has lobbied to protect officers on the street, has urged passage of compliance with the background check violations- largely left untried by the Clinton administration. I would say efforts to enforce existing laws have been encouraged by the NRA. Felons are not supposed to carry firearms- why are these charges ignored in so many cases?

(the belief the NRA, with an enormous Police membership, would support "cop killing bullets is a lie and distortion- by the Mainstream Media!! )

The NRA has pursued minorities and women in membership. It is not, nor has ever been a cover for the KKK, which many liken it to. They accept all denominations and affilations.

I became a member after shooting for several years. I used to read gun stats all the time. And the more I read, the more I knew I'd been lied to about Rights and guns.

John Lott has an excellent book, "More guns, less crime" Gary Kleck also did some pivotal early statistical studies.

munk
 
Have they ever delved into anything non-gun-related? (other than campaign finance)

BTW, I share your views on Mainstream Media. Even though I supported John Kerry (let's not go there), I can admit the blatant bias. When was the last time you saw an Iraqi kid handing a GI a flower on TV? That's what I've heard from soldiers I know, but I guess that "doesn't sell." Damm.

My solution to the media: I check Msnbc.com, Cnn.com, Foxnews.com, and occasionally Aljazeera.com. All biased. I figure that if I see a range of biases, I'll actually hear part of the truth! :D

Nam
 
Nam,
Yes, they are all biased. We are all biased. Perception is a limiting of stimuli.

I'm not aware of any other issue the NRA is involved in. They would not even be involved in gun politics were it not neccesary to preserve our rights.


For a 100 years or so they did nothing but teach hunting safety, gun safety, and conduct national matches. You'll find them in inner cities and suburbs, teaching housewives to use a firearm safely.


munk
 
namaarie said:
Munk,

Do you mean that if there was an AR in the neighborhood, they'd bring a SWAT team?!? God, this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :barf:

Nam

(for the record, Nam is short for Namaarie. Nothing to do with Vietnam, so please nobody be offended or mistake me for a vet. It's just quicker to type.)
Click to expand...

"Nam" is East Indian for "Name." "Sat Nam" = "True Name"
 
Having read through the entire post now, I will offer my two cents. I like guns and support groups and people who believe we should be able to have them. I believe that criminals will get guns anyhow and legislation will not stop this from happening.

On gay marriages I support the concept. Gays have been around since humanity began. Personally I enjoy my gay friends conversations, but the idea of gay sex is mystifying, I don't understand it. I have no interest. From my Southern WASP background it seems very wrong.

However my feelings of personal freedom say, let them do what they will. "To each his own, but leave mine alone."

But as a Christian I think that it is important to point out that a gay lifestyle is not Biblical. While I have no problem with gay people getting married, in fact I think that they should, if two people love each other and want to commit to a lifetime together --- BUT I think this should be a civil and NOT a religious ceremony.

A gay lifestyle is not sanctioned by God. Let's not make Him part of this.

I do not mean to offend anyone, but I DO feel that this needs to be said.
 
Munk,

I was doing some net research, and it appears the NRA and a couple other people ARE currently challenging the DC gun ban. ;) As I said previously, I believe that the individual right. One thing I wonder is the NRA included Ashcroft as their partner on the challenge, and I wonder how that is going to work now that he's out.

On the gay marriage thing. I think the answer is the gov't should get totally out of the marriage game. Both straight and gay. They should also change the unfair tax code to where it no longer treats married people any different than single ones. Think of how much money that would save Social Security.
That would make marriage a totally religious issue again. Maybe if people who really wanted to get married had to go to a minister and get counseling that there would be less divorce. That would also make divorce a religious issue.
 
hollowdweller said:
That would make marriage a totally religious issue again. Maybe if people who really wanted to get married had to go to a minister and get counseling that there would be less divorce. That would also make divorce a religious issue.
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I agree with the government getting out of the marriage game and the taxes.

As far as the above goes I suppose that would make me busier with me being a minister and all, albeit not a Christian minister.

Personally I don't view marriage as a sacred ceremony endowed with the blessings of "God." but as more of a recognition that two people want to commit too one another and show their friends, family, and public that commitment.

Perhaps more later as I gather my thoughts so that I can put them in writing.
 
Bill Marsh,

Gay marriage is interpreted differently by each church and even each region. I personally don't feel it's against christian faith and neither does my old church. A United Methodist church, albeit a liberal northern one. :) Biblical support can be provided both ways, but I really don't want to get into that. Nobody will win, because it's all belief. I happen to differ in my beliefs, and so be it. :)

Also, I'll explain my name now. I'm a tolkien nerd. Really. Namaarie (actually accented a, not two) means "farewell" in Quenya Elvish. It's my screen name for most things and computer/console gaming. :) Today, starting at 9:30 am until midnight, I'll have a lot of friends over to watch all 3 extended LOTRs in a row. God, immersion can be wonderful... :D :D :D

Nam
 
namaarie said:
Bill Marsh,

Gay marriage is interpreted differently by each church and even each region. I personally don't feel it's against christian faith and neither does my old church. A United Methodist church, albeit a liberal northern one. :) Biblical support can be provided both ways, but I really don't want to get into that. Nobody will win, because it's all belief. I happen to differ in my beliefs, and so be it. :)

Also, I'll explain my name now. I'm a tolkien nerd. Really. Namaarie (actually accented a, not two) means "farewell" in Quenya Elvish. It's my screen name for most things and computer/console gaming. :) Today, starting at 9:30 am until midnight, I'll have a lot of friends over to watch all 3 extended LOTRs in a row. God, immersion can be wonderful... :D :D :D

Nam
Click to expand...

Thanks Nam,

Freedom of belief is one of the great things about our country and about this Forum! I certainly support your right to believe what you want.

"Funny, you don't look Elvish...."

I also am a Tolkein fan. I remember reading, no devouring, his works many years ago. This was in the late 1960s, when Tolkein first became popular. There was an absolute delightful deluge of Tolkein.

There was also a marvelous Harvard Lampoon parody called "Bored of the Rings." (Pub 1969) A few of the characters were:

GoodGulf the wizard and his horse Thermofax
Fritos, Spam and Dildo
Stomper
Legolam, Moxie and Pepsi
Prince ArrowRoot of ArrowShirt
Princess Cellophane
The Narcs who rode great black pigs ("Just give us a RING, get it?")
The fabled Nikon Zoom runes
The BallHog (Balrog)
The land of TwoDoor and FourDoor
The evil wizard Sorhead

http://www.almac.co.uk/personal/timw/books/bored.htm

I hope that you have a sense of humor about this, many people treat Tolkein with an almost religious reverence. I think that he was a great author and thoroughly enjoyed the Hobbit and LOTR.

I remember reading the book at an IHOP and was laughing so hard that I accidently poured strawberry syrup in my coffee, mistaking it for cream, and was too embarressed to ask the waitress for another cup.
 
Munk,

I was doing some net research, and it appears the NRA and a couple other people ARE currently challenging the DC gun ban. As I said previously, I believe that the individual right. One thing I wonder is the NRA included Ashcroft as their partner on the challenge, and I wonder how that is going to work now that he's out.>>>>>>>>> Hollow

I'm glad to hear that, Hollow, and thank you for your effort.
And there's so many more, like the Maryland (?) one handgun a month plan, the Ca AWB, the NY handgun ban...and that's just a few. I don't really keep track of them anymore. When I first was in the NRA, I keep a file on these things, but that's 18 years ago. I know the imoral lawsuits against firearms manufacturers has been a hot issue lately.

I think if 'justice' were served, we would have access and rights to weapons, though limits, just like with the first amendment and any right, must be given. I doubt the Courts will come down on my side of this- Full Auto, but I certainly can see why a guy down the street should not own a LAW rocket.

We would be lucky to stop the tide of confiscation at semi auto and multiple cap mags. I don't find that unreasonable, and figure most if not all civil disturbances can be dealt with with such weapons. We'd never 'take back the nation' in the event of a Constitutional crisis unless the military personel and public were largely on our side. That means that education is the number one priority- keeping future generations appraised of the responsibility and inherent 'right' that a firearm represents. That does not include the BATF sporting usefullness phrase.

Did you know the NRA and ACLU worked together in demanding an investigation and reform of the BATF during the same time the Republicans were being attacked by the Press for Wayne Lapierre's statement of "jack booted thugs'? That was when the First President Bush resigned from the NRA in a public ad. What a marshmellow. If I recall, Amnesty International was involved too. There were simply too many terrible abuses by BATF personel. And it's too long ago for me remember when this happened, but at one point during the last 20 years, the BATF funds were actually cut by Congress to the tune of the cost of the illegal record taking they'd been doing. They still smart over that one. Though of course later the Anti Gun press claimed the NRA lobbied against funds for the BATF to make it easier to own illegal weapons.




munk
 
And we probably agree on this one too; as long as euphoric drugs are illegal, the DEA and our borders will remain hopelessly compromised.

It's possible you and I represent the two different edges of the Libertarian movement.


munk
 
munk said:
the two different edges
munk
Click to expand...

Appropriate terminology for a knife forum ;)

Speaking of BATF, I need to send you the song "Ruby Ridge" by Peter Rowan(sung and played guitar in Old and In the Way)
 
Was there another group who did "Panama Red" before the OLd and in the Way album with Garcia and Rowan?

There's a lost psychedelic western ban in my mind..(and that actually did exist!) and I wonder if he was a member.

It is a disgrace that the men involved in the errors at Waco and Ruby were promoted. Clinton and Bush were no exceptions to this. The support of Company men.

No one cares about Weaver being an idiot, nor Koresh a loon, but just in how they were treated. (and especially those around them) Where was the ACLU on these, I wonder?

I'm really going far afield, but do you remember the splash when the Rules of Engagment were rewritten, so that this thing would never happen again? Well, I read the old rules and the new rules, and in neither case should they have happened.

The tone at the time was 'this never happened before, and we'll see it never happens again'.

And I thought of Wounded Knee and local ranchers joining the FBI in blasting ndn's holed up in a federal monument. 1972, 3?

Nothing is new.

Every generation gets born with this splash that they live in the land of truth and justice. We learn the hard way we must fight to reaffirm this every time, every new crop of kids. I like to think it the responsibility of every generation to trim the Fed Bureacracy down a mite. That's one we've failed to do despite 60's rhetoric.



munk
 
That would be John Marmaduke and David Nelson's New Riders of the Purple Sage.

This from the Iowa ACLU Site:

Ruby Ridge



The ACLU, both our affiliate and the national organization, harshly condemned the government's overzealous use of weapons and resources that was far disproportionate to the threat to public safety. In 1994, the ACLU lead a broad coalition of organizations that called for an "independent inquiry into this and other tragedies." Later we suggested to the Attorney General a list of law enforcement reforms to protect individual rights from federal law enforcement.



We brought an award-winning film, Waco: The Rules of Engagement, to Boise and Ketchum. Immediately following the film, David Nevin and Ellison Matthews, attorneys for Kevin Harris (the friend of Randy Weaver and his slain wife) spoke and answered questions.
 
Yep, that's it. Was there a song called 'Dirty business"? and the "Last Train to (some LA suburb no longer last) ??

That was a group that almost became great. What happened to those guys?



munk
 
Well, their original steel player, Jerry, went back to the Dead. I'm not sure what Marmaduke is doing. Buddy Cage their other steel player has a few bands. David Nelson has his own band, electric. I saw him at an autumn equinox festival about 4 years ago.

I have a great tape of them from the Dead's 5/2/70 epic concert at Harper College in NY. The tape starts out with a fantastic acoustic set by the Dead, including Cold Jordan, then the New Riders set, then a massive long electric Dead set that has some great jams. This show was so coveted by tapers that the Dead finally released it as part of their Dicks Picks series of releases from the vault. Unfortunately only the Deads sets were on it. The NRPS set was not on there. The NRPS set had a great Henry if you know that one from their first album.

You might be able to look up NRPS or David Nelson on:

www.jambase.com

or

www.jambands.com

Here's the link for Dicks Picks. You may have even been at some of these.

http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?dept_id=1541&band_id=171&sfid=7
 
Bill,

I've been away for a couple days, and just read your LOTR post. I like that parody! I love Tolkien, but I'm not to snobbish for wit. :)

BTW, the party went very well. Started watching LOTRs at 10 am and finished at 1 am! Great! I dreamt of battle, and that's always fun! :D

Maybe I'm just obsessed right now, but HI has done some movie repros before. Wouldn't it be cool if they could actually make some *usable* LOTR replicas? Of course illegal, but they just have to look similar. I know this is impossible, but I simply won't buy a long sword made of 420 j2 steel. I don't have a death wish. I just wish the replicas could be used for something other than show. :mad:

Well, it's late and I'm a little sick. Oh, well, happy holidays all!

Nam
 
WELL,,,, i have read all these threds, with great intrest. what i see is a whole american public that is unhappy with the way things are. how can that be??? the greatist republic on the earth???how could their possiobly be dissention in the ranks????are you not all as one? are you not all americans??? is their nothing on the planet greater than the U.SA??. well this old jimmy from canada, you got ****, they gave you the short end of the stick. gun control doesnt mean anything in canada, it is a joke, nothing, means nothing. still got guns, always will. more than you guys can say. you got to go for fbi clearance. is that not registration?? and who could possibly care about gay marriage. jesus you tight asses got to let go. it just isnt any of your business wha your neighbours do. this is old jimmy from canada, yukon actually dont get me wrong i think the american way of doing things should be right according to the constitution as you see it. i know how i see it
 
chechacko said:
WELL,,,, i have read all these threds, with great intrest. what i see is a whole american public that is unhappy with the way things are. how can that be??? the greatist republic on the earth???how could their possiobly be dissention in the ranks????are you not all as one? are you not all americans??? is their nothing on the planet greater than the U.SA??. well this old jimmy from canada, you got ****, they gave you the short end of the stick. gun control doesnt mean anything in canada, it is a joke, nothing, means nothing. still got guns, always will. more than you guys can say. you got to go for fbi clearance. is that not registration?? and who could possibly care about gay marriage. jesus you tight asses got to let go. it just isnt any of your business wha your neighbours do. this is old jimmy from canada, yukon actually dont get me wrong i think the american way of doing things should be right according to the constitution as you see it. i know how i see it
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Do we have a troll surfacing? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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