OT:KSO tho...fixer upper

kronckew

kronckew

Joined
Aug 17, 2003
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got seduced by this on the way by in ebay, as i've got a greek kopis, i thoght i'd get the next one on the path to nepal, it's a turkish yataghan. as you can see it's another ancestor/relative of the kukhri (betcha bura could make a nice one!)

got it cheap as it's a bit abused and in need of some restoration (i can't afford one in good condition at the moment as they are way beyond my means)

anyway, like a kukh it has a horn grip, from which is missing a chunk near the ricasso - the butterfly pommel ends appear reasonably intact - probably needs a lot of lanolin - i was thinking of using an epoxy filler for the missing bit, and eventually replacing the grips with some micarta ones when i feel enterprising. any suggestions would be welcome.

the blade has some nicks and abuse apparently (it has not yet arrived, seller just posted it today) and probably needs a good de-rusting, polish and edge restoration. the metalwork i can handle, the handle i'll need help with....

17_3.JPG


hopefully this will keep me busy till payday when i can jump into the shark infested waters of yangdu's specials - really need a chitlangi next....
 
What a great find! You'll have plenty of fun and challenge with that one. Since horn is readily available you might consider re-handling it in horn in keeping with the restoration. I've restored a couple of rifles and a pistol that were really beat up and greatly enjoyed doing it; I even rust blued them. Please keep us posted as your work progresses.

Ice
 
Green Ice said:
I even rust blued them.

Ice
Click to expand...
Ice, how do you rust blue something? Every once in a great while one of my knives, a couple of khuks has done it, will get a small area of what I call, "Black Rust."
I don't worry about black rust as it doesn't pit and helps to keep that area free from red or the bad kind of rust.
Actually I have little trouble with rust but have one knife that has started rusting from being in its sheath for so long. Damned funny that it was in the sheath for two years before it started rusting though.:grumpy: :(
 
You can mix some black colorant of some sort with epoxy to match the horn. Some folks have used "model paint" in the little glass jars for painting plastic models of cars and boats and planes. I have used masking tape to build a dam around the area. Some of the "5 minute" epoxy might be dandy for such a chore. The epoxy I have takes over an hour to start hardening, and tends to run everywhere.

Lovely Yataghan!

Steve
 
Yvsa, heres how I do a gun: first you have to remove all the old blue and grease leaving the metal perfectly clean and oil free. Hand polishing (no machine buffing) to remove pits and scratches. This is a pretty good cleaner and blue remover.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1083&title=RUST+and+BLUE+REMOVER

Next you need to paint the metal surface with the formula that causes a very fine textured red rust to form. There are many do-it-yourself formulas but I cheat and use this:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...5&title=PILKINGTON+CLASSIC+AMERICAN+RUST+BLUE

From this point on be sure to use clean cotton gloves when you touch the metal. Any oil will ruin the final finish. Just paint the solution on and let your part stand in a corner for 2 or 3 days until red rust forms.

Next you have to boil the part in distilled water. I use a 4ft long narrow stainless steel trough resting on both top burners of the stove. I attach soft iron wire to a barrel so can get it out easily. Small parts are boiled inside a small stainless basket. The boiling water will turn the rust jet black after a few minutes. Just lift the part out and the water will evaporate almost immediately.

Next you have to card off the black rust oxide with 4/0 steel wool. I removed all the oil from my wool by pouring Everclear over it and setting it on fire. Be real careful cuz it burns firecely and is hard to put out. First time you card, the finish will be very thin. You then apply more rust blue solution and begin the cycle all over again. After 4 or 5 passes you will have the most beautiful blue finish that you can imagine. You can either stop there or continue blueing for a darker and thicker finish.

Thats it. No real secrets, just attention to detail, some work and a lot of waiting. Greatest cost would be the 4ft stainless trough. I bought mine some 20+ years ago but Brownells has them. I think it would be easy to blue a knife blade because you could use a pyrex jar for the boiling water and to hold the blade upright. You would have to protect the handle though.

Sorry for the long dissertation. Please ask if I can give any more help.

Ice
 
I would do minimal restoration, if it's a real antique relic.
Relics like this are a real conundrum. To make it look new wouldn't be that difficult, but the condition it's in is a piece of history.
I have a "broomhandle" Mauser that came from China, where it saw severe service. Somehow, the pits and dings are kinda charming. I look at it and try to imagine where it's been, what it's seen, and what it's done.
 
Bri in Chi said:
I would do minimal restoration, if it's a real antique relic.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right Bri. If its a real antique, removal of rust and leather preservation (if it had leather) is about as far as I would go. Anything more would really hurt the collectors value.

Ice
 
Bri in Chi said:
I have an antique axe that has had its head replaced twice and the handle replace half a dozen times. :D It looks great.
Click to expand...

Put it on Ebay. You can get 10 times what you paid for it. :D

Ice
 
Green Ice said:
Sorry for the long dissertation. Please ask if I can give any more help.

Ice
Click to expand...
Long? That wasn't long.:D I write the long ones.:rolleyes: ;) :D

And thanks a million, very good info. How about copying and posting your post in the Tips thread that's stickied at the top of the forum for posterity? ;)
Real good info that would be easier to find when needed.:D :cool: :D

Edit:
I went ahead and made a Word Document out of your post, hope it's okay and may I pass it on to interested parties?
 
Note...leather preservation and removal of *ACTIVE* rust for a genuine antique. The old inactive rust carries part of the value of the piece with it...historical value, not just money.

.
 
Nasty said:
Note...leather preservation and removal of *ACTIVE* rust for a genuine antique. The old inactive rust carries part of the value of the piece with it...historical value, not just money.

.
Click to expand...

Ouch! You are right and I am wrong. :footinmou

Ice
 
good stuff so far, my intent is to remove only red rust, black oxide is not a problem as noted - part of it's patina. polishing is for horn handgrips only. which i'll try to keep as long as they're not badly damaged. will try to replace in horn if needed only if necessary. will need to come up with a suitable scabbard, looks like wood with leather cover & some silver for the throat & chape....will put a nice scary edge on it tho as i don't like dull knives,even antiques.

all in all not bad time occupier for $80 (inclusive of shipping from bulgaria).......
 
Green Ice said:
Ouch! You are right and I am wrong. :footinmou

Ice
Click to expand...

You weren't wrong my friend...I was just more specific. ;)

.
 
That is a wicked fine piece and a great deal...

wonder how old it is....

and just how it got those dings? :eek: :D

_________

Visited West Point Military Academy once. They have a display of captured enemy cannons from various American wars. What impressed me most were the round ding marks on the muzzle bells.... made by American cannon shot coming at 'em. To the victor go the spoils and I was proud of the men that took those cannon on the field of battle.


Ad Astra
 
Hi y'all

well, it finally arrived last week. just in time to prevent me from going nuts. the local cable company dug up the road to install conduit last friday & cut the phone lines for my village. 25 houses without phones (OR ADSL!) and i'm suffering from internet withdrawal symptoms (i'm at work now and have recovered somewhat)

it looks exactly like in the picture at top, i went out and bought some epoxy steel from one of the local stores as it is a very dark grey, almost matching the black horn grips. also bought some degreaser to clean the beast with before doing anything.

after degreasing the black patina turned out to have alot of red rust in it (looked black 'cus of the grease i guess) which i removed with a brass wire brush, especially from the grip area. and some rust converter which turns red rust into black, used some in the area where the horn had been broken/eaten away.

i then built up the epoxy into the three void areas, when mostly cured this was carefully whittled down with a sharp knife being careful not to cut the horn, then the whole area including the rest of the horn was sanded by hand with succesively finer grit emery paper till i finished up with 10000 grit. been soaking the horn in lanolin for three days now, checking every nite & reapplying it. lookin good so far.

now the blade. still has a lot of black rust, a few pits and what appeared to be some horizonal (parallel to edge) cracks about a half inch long. that do not extend thru to the other side & appeared to be surface cracks.

did a bit of research on yataghans on the web. sems some cheap yataghans were made from a flat stip of steel with no forged ricasso and wood grips rivited directly to the tang area. mine is not like that one. more expensive ones had a lot of gold inlays, tang straps in silver and gems, etc. etc. mine ain't like that either.

i gather it's kind of the bog standard infantry model with a forged ricasso area and proper winged horn grips. seems the better class gold/jewel models were frequently made of wootz steel, but the better common models were 'plank welded', ie. they have a hard high carbon edge hammer welded to a softer core and back. i think that the half inch parallel marks are signs of this. seems some had pattern welded hard/soft strips between the edge and the back. (aka 'damascus'). mine seems to be made of multiple strips but,

now the bad news, some bright spark in the past seems to have gone over the blade with a rough grinder to remove rust, so any trace of the original surface has rough scratches perpendicular to the edge. the striations are mosty under the black rust.

so, as the surface and any original patterning/marking are gone,

should i naval jelly the blade, emery out the grinder striations and etch it in FeCl to bring out any patterns????

(the edge and back have a number of nicks which do not appear to be abuse, but look more like combat scars from parries, wanna leave them as is as much as possible...)

when i get my ADSL line back, i'll stick up a few more pics....

still thinking on how to make a scabbard for her.
 
I'd start with a manual -polish-
to better see what's there,
then decide on anything more distructive.
I like Mother's Billet Polish (auto) for general use
with fingers or soft cloth

One of my favorite sword profiles.

& I don't have one yet......
although I do have a couple of cheaper, shorter bayonets of that profile.

Congrates

Sometimes the abused blades are handy,
I worry less about any intrinsic value
& feel freer [freeer, free-er, free'r, ???..... Oh well :rolleyes: ]
to work on them
Good to practice conservation/renovation/etc

Definately need lots of pix


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I have to agree with Dean, do a manual polish and go from there. Naval jelly is alright but even though some, "spark" as you say, has went over the blade I think the less done the better.
If the striations are real heavy it might not hurt to run a file over it laid flat so as to do as little harm as possible. Frequent cleaning with a file card will keep the file clean enough so as to not pick up filings and drag them across the blade.
When you have it as clean as possible with the file go over it with as fine a grit of paper as possible to just remove the rust.
Pix before you start would perhaps be helpful to know what you have before hand.
I guess we have those "sparks" living on both sides of the pond and around the world.:(
 
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