OT: ? New Government cartridge? 6.8mm

ARe you sure you're not downplaying the important role icecrystals play?

Does anyone remember the artillery genius killed by the Israel secret assassin squad? He designed the enormous cannon we took out at the beginning of the first Gulf war. Thing is, he offered plans to the US military first. The US declined, and went after him for import violations or some such, and he fled to foreign environs. He is the reason we feared the Iraqi artillery- he'd extended the range by quite a bit. WE refused to have the same procdedure done to our own stuff. He also had plans for launching artillery projectiles into space, with the ability to come down where he wanted. All this and cheap too.




munk
 
Munk,
Actually, they were "developed" in conjunction. I put developed in quotes because the 10mm had come around back in the early 80s in the Bren Ten auto pistol, and didn't have much of a following. When the F.B.I. wanted to resurrect it, they went to Smith to build pistols for them, and Smith and Wesson realized that as long as they were making .40 caliber barrels, there might be a more people-friendly cartridge opportunity. So, not long (less than a year) after the 10mm Smiths became available, the 40 Smith and Wesson made its debut.

Since the 10mm was never marketed as a hunting or silhouette cartridge, people only seemed to look at it as a ridiculously overpowered defense number, and the 40 S&W won the day. The FBI figured out there wasn't any reason to have loaded-down 10mm because it limited them to large handguns, so they stopped using it too (as far as I know). Personally, I think they should have stuck with the Gov't, or Browning HP in 9mm, but I'm certainly biased on that point. To be fair, the 40 S&W actually turned out to be a great cartridge, so I guess something good came out of it.

I'd love to find one of the old Baby Eagles in 41AE. Believe it or not, that's one I don't have. :D
 
I don't purport to understand half of what you guys are talking about. An M14 and my Colt 1911 do me just fine. Never understood the need for change. Too old I guess. :(
 
I do not know nearly as much as most of you guys, but I will say that I do want a modern bullpup. Check these two out:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
They have open handguards that allow the gun to be fired with mittens, they are easily and quickly changed for a particular mission, and they are bullpups. The advantages of a bullpup are obvious and I don't see why we are not using them. The same applies to scopes, these modern rifles use them while we do not. May not be worth much but there's my 2cents.
 
There is one flaw with Bullpups, and I think it has to do if you're right or left handed and where the ejection port is. Getting hit in the face by empties, and all.

But everyone seems to be switching and some gun designs may be ambidexterious regarding ejection side.


munk
 
For what I want it for, a 7.62x39 in soft point does just fine, and I have lots of ball ammo packed away ( helped a guy in need of cash by buying it off him ). Soft point isn't that much more expensive.

If I recall correctly, Massad Ayoob pointed that one thing some of those in prison learn quickly is that there are a lot of guys there who've survived being shot with a pistol. There are very few folk in prison who've been shot with a rifle or shotgun with non-ball/ non-birdshot ( in other words hunting or defense ) loads.

I had 223's and if I get a chance to pick up an AK in that caliber with several hi-cap mags, will do so. Or if I can afford a CZ527 ( if that's the right number ).

I have 200 rounds of 7x57 173 grain ball like Karomoja Bell used, some 308, and need to get 303 if/when I ever get my No. 4's out of cosmo.
 
It didn't take long in this crowd to get to the, "what I'm going to use to kill Mongrel Hordes as they pour over the ridge."




munk
 
I have a fair supply of older jacketed 7.63 X39, if you understand the implications of that, as well as a few hundred soft point, some 308, and assorted candies in many flavors.


I really will be concentrating on my M1A though. The soviet short will be available.



munk
 
Originally posted by Semper Fi
I don't purport to understand half of what you guys are talking about. An M14 and my Colt 1911 do me just fine. Never understood the need for change. Too old I guess. :(
Click to expand...

No arguments here. It's kind of like why I need more than one hand forged last-my-lifetime khukuri. The only beings that couldn't be handled entirely by what you just mentioned are my Collecting Deamons. :cool:
 
The 1911 stands alone and proud, (we hope) as THE ONLY SEMI AUTO CENTERFIRE HANDGUN MUNK OWNS OR EVER OWNED.


munk


Isn't funny about khukuris and good guns? Go together like peanut butter and jelly.
 
need to get 303
Click to expand...
Rusty, ever check out a 303 (No.5 Enfield) Jungle Carbine?
very nice, very stout...I think only 100k were made.
Prices keep going up every gunshow I went to.



The 1911 stands alone and proud
Click to expand...
Is that why it's still preferred in IPSC and continues to
dominate Bianchi Cup? :D
 
I got to use a Kimber Custom II with some match ammo in it. I think it was at least as accurate as my M44 Mosin. The slide did hang up once after a large number of shots though. I'm sure that's to be expected with the tighter tolerances though.
 
To all Gov't Model lovers, let me steer you towards something:

Springfield Armory has released a run of "World War 2" government models. This is not their typical mil-spec version. Parkerized, round mainspring housing, lanyard loop, small sights (which I can actually shoot better with) and even the old Brown hard-plastic grips. Costs around $400.00 most shops. The only things that it differs from the originals is:

1) It DOES have the slide-lock safety feature in the MSH (if you don't want to engage it, you don't have to--it doesn't do it automatically. Or go to www.gunpartscorp.com and get an old one).
2) Slightly widened ejection port
3) It is much tighter than originals, and even I with my poor right eye am getting ragged-hole groups at fifty feet.

How does it compare to other mil-spec offerings?

Colt has their version out, and it's about as close, but it's nothing more than a re-accessorized 1991A1 and they want $1,000.00 for it. Not nearly as tight, either.

Auto-Ordnance has greatly stepped up their quality in recent years, having been bought by Kahr who replaced their tooling. However, even their own WW2 model has slanted slide serrations, and it just looks wrong.

I am not a pushover when it comes to rating firearm quality. These new offerings from Springfield are quality pistols, guys, and they "feel right." Get 'em while they're around. I don't think they're going to be standard catalogue items.
 
Originally posted by Semper Fi
I don't purport to understand half of what you guys are talking about. An M14 and my Colt 1911 do me just fine. Never understood the need for change. Too old I guess. :(
Click to expand...

The only time I fired a Colt 1911 was when I was about six years old. The pistol belonged to me Uncle Bud and he promised to let me shoot it.
He got the old man to stop the car out in the middle of the desert in Arizona, got out and showed me what to do and told me to shoot it across the road into a dirt bank.
I know I must've scared the livin crap outta the couple of motorcycle riders that appeared outta nowhere!!!! Uncle Bud saw them coming and raised my arm into the air. Me? I just kept pulling the trigger until it was empty, hell I wanted to -shoot- the gun!!!!
No one ever accused Uncle Bud of being to bright.:rolleyes:

So I can't speak about the .45 but I can on the M-14. I loved that rifle and shot expert with it. I couldn't shoot the old M-1 well enough to qualify as we found out one day at the range when I got to fire one.:eek: :(
 
I loved both my M1A's before they went bye-bye. I think I'll like the FAL better once I get a chance to shoot it.

My SAFN-49 inspires feelings akin to a 16.5" Bura WW2, though. Think of a Garand made by Rolex.
 
And munk? About those mongrel hordes, you be talkin' 'bout my mom's folks, now.

Besides, 3 years as Congregation President left me always nervous bout sittin' anywhere but the back pew with my back to the wall.


:p :p :p ;) :D
 
Got to watch the church folks, they'll plug you when you aren't looking.

I don't really expect any mongrel hordes anytime soon, maybe some unwanted relatives would qualify.....but usually you feed them and they go away.
 
Someone mentioned in this thread about the 1911 standing alone for a reason- (standig alone was my quote)

I've had the most heated debates with people about this. I contend that bullets leave the muzzle, strike the target downrange with reasonable accuracy, the gun is long lasting and fits the grip, and takes abuse. To me, improvement over such a design is difficult. Yet proponents of the Sig rightly point out that their weapons don't jam out of the box, don't need tune ups to get them up to snuff, and are simply better guns.

People in gun forums have kindly said they love their 191l's but they are not as good as the sig or perhaps glock or HK.

They point out the reason the 1911 is in matches is because of the prevalence of after market equipment for them. Like wise Rusty, the FNFAL has never been quite up to the accuracy standards of the MIA, but now that attention is on the FN perhaps it can be made more accurate.

What the truth of the 1911 is I guess I'll never know. Cooper says it stands alone with the claw hammer as inventions of the last century. The LA swat team just chose them but perhpas the LA swat team doesnm't know what it is doing. The SEALS have used them but issue is the Sig. The FBI has the 1911 on special teams.

Have any modern semi auto handguns really improved enough over the century old 1911 design to say they are better?


munk
 
"Better" is real damn subjective.

I can only say what is better for me. One day, I will have a nice 9x23mm 1911 pistol. I have not been without a Glock since 1993.

John
 
T1mpani; doesn't Kimber have a comperable model to the Springfield you've described? And if so, price? Springfield has been beaten by Kimber on the retail side for several years now.




Spectre- I had a chance to get one of those. In fact, I wonder if that guy still has it...himmm

I can get a virtually new Colt SS Delta Elite 10 if I can find 500 bucks.

munk
 
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