OT: Self defense for a dainty gal.......

Contact your local chapter of WAR (Women Against Rape). These folks DO NOT mess around when it comes to women's protection methods. They will be a wealth of information for you. They also offer many realistic/practical community based classes (probably free or very low cost) on all aspects of self defense (unarmed, firearms, etc...). WAR can usually be reached at the local YWCA. It's a comfortable environment for women to learn in, 'cause it's all like-minded females! :)

Lastly, the reason for this post is a keyring item called a 'CAT WATCH'. It is offered for sale by WAR for approx. $5.00. Does not look like waht it is really for at all, comes to the hand VERY naturally (most women discover it's true function while playing around with it) and is effective. The three women I've given one to in the past REALLY like it and always have it on thier keychain. Oh by the way, WAR will not sell a CatWatch to a person of the male gender. She'll have to be with you, or go herself to buy it.
 
My wife has a purse she bought at a gun show that was made by Ruger, I think. Big purse, with pockets & etc. on both sides. Middle can be accessed from one end only, I think. Anyway, this middle pocket was made to carry protection.....in her case that generally means a Colt. Othertimes, it means a 10" New Model. She also has one of those little jewels Jim was referring to in the main part of the purse. Used right, that thing will open an advisary up like a can opener!!!!! The middle pocket is big enough to carry a big can of the pepper spray, a khukuri &/or a handgun. Lately, my old Glock has been riding in there a lot, though she is partial to the old Colt. Price wasn't cheap, somewhere around $40.00 I think, but it is well made & she has used it nearly everyday for several years.
 
a women for women self-defense program. Gave up one of my visitation days each week to do it, AND the CHIMERA folks wouldn't let me in to watch (NO men.)


Fundamentals: LEARN TO SCREAM "NO!!! NO!!!! NO !!!!

DO NOT ENGAGE UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER OPTION.

CARRY KEYS IN HAND WITH KEYS STICKING THROUGH FINGERS AND PRACTICE USING THEM AS FACE/EYE GOUGES

PRACTICE (OVER AND OVER, APPARENTLY) PHYSICAL MOVEMENTS TO DISABLE--KICKS TO GROIN, SHIN SCRAPE, EYE GOUGE, FOOT STOMP, ETC.

WRIGGLE, STRUGGLE, TWIST, SLIP, BEND....DO ANYTHING TO ESCAPE GRASP. MEN ARE STRONGER. NEVER ACCOMODATE CAPTURE. NEVER!!!

MAKE NOISE !!!!! AMAZINGLY, MANY WOMEN RESIST MAKING A FUSS...NOT LADYLIKE...HENCE THE IDEA OF NO MEN IN CLASSES.


On the idea of knives/guns/etc...Most Chicago cops, last I saw numbers, were shot by their own guns by detainee/suspect. Not a good idea, I'd think.

She will be fine. The idea of a store-wide, management awareness and responsibility program is excellent. If the store insists on making them park further away, the store shares in some of the responsibility for their safety.

Alerting/involving local police authorities of the concern, maybe having cruiser there are certain times...would be a good idea.

She will be fine.
 
I'd say the Management should do something, Walmart wants a good reputation then they should earn it. Are they unionized?

The 2 self defense programs sound good and there are others.

No one is really good with a weapon without some training, bloodymindedness only counts for so much

How about a Maglite, a 5 or 6 C cell. Held with the shaft over the shoulder and her hand down by the reflector. Turn the body, extent the arm and point the top knuckle at his nose.

Finally, a cane. There were some nice ones posted the other day.

Little knives are to hard to learn quickly.
 
If its a 100 meters away from a busy area, maybe she would be comfortable carrying one of the personal security screaming sound blasters on her keychain: loud enough to scare anyone except a completely deaf attacker off; can't be turned against you; brings help right away. She may end up deaf temporarily. But its security that most women who "hate violence" can live with.

If you feel that she needs some self defense, for what it's worth, a woman has one natural defense in that most attackers at some stage will face her face to face closely (well if your thinking knives, it has to be close enough to reach him anyway).

Let her experience using her fingers/nails to scrape an attackers eyes. Most women are instintively afraid of hurting her attacker to do this for the first time. But as the martial arts guys preach, at times of pressure one always reverts back to one's training. Let her try ripping out the eyes of an attacker a few times and it may become an automatic reaction.

How to let her rip? Some of those Women's Self-Defense classes have full body padded suits that big men wear to simulate a real attack. Some of the face masks in the suits have soft plastic eyes and soft noses that are meant to be ripped at (the eyes actually pop out, too). You might try to borrow one. If not, try a hockey goalie mask, tape some plums behind the eye sockets, lightly tape on a pair of dark glasses (so she doesn't laugh too hard at plums staring at her), even hold it up to your face. Then let her rip. She'll hopefully get to know the feeling of using full force to get her nails/fingers into soft tissue (sounds gory, no?). Anyway if she does well at that, you put on steel tipped boots, shin guards, a cup, and a stomach pad to let her stomp on your feet (you in back), kick your shins, knee you in the groin, fist/elbow in the stomach.

Who knows . . . she might even like beating you up. But the main thing is that she gets used to using full force (and hopefully gets over the femine fear or hurting somebody).

Hope this helps.
 
Originally posted by The Big Kahuna

Some of those Women's Self-Defense classes have full body padded suits that big men wear to simulate a real attack.
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One of my friends is a teacher at one of the local junior colleges. She had a Women's Self Defence Class going for many semesters. Halfway into the semester she would have me or one of my friends(all with martial arts background) put on the suit(Blue Maxx) and simulate attack. I have never been yelled and sworn at by girls so much:D. You might want to see if there is a class available for her to take.

Now for some random thoughts I have on the self defence class I participated in. The suit I wore had helmet with metal face mask. The Women could simulate poking my eyes without contact. At times they did scratch my face with their nails. Others would go for my ears and hair and throat. If I did not have the mask on, I would have been in serious trouble. I think the face is the best target(along with groin). One women grabbed the helmet like she would be grabbing my hair and screamed in my ear. This made me immediatly push away from her, my ear was ringing and eyes watering. Screaming is Very effective. She opened up some gap which made it a little easier to get away. Now she could palm heel me in the face, scratch my eyes out, kick me away from her and run. One woman spit in my eyes, that was different:rolleyes: but effective, she opened up some gap(and I could not see to well). Biting always seemed to be good. The women would bite me on the suit which had no effect on me. But one bit me on the forearm when I went with smaller foearm pads so I had more mobility. I have had the scar for 2 years now:D. If I was not wearing the suit where the other women bit me, they would have caused damage. Once the women opened up some gap, they could move and start kicking and pushing away from me. Once they broke contact with me, they ran.

We started slow with the attacks and gradually increased the intensity through the weeks. After 3-4 weeks the students did great in defending against me and were very aggresive when attacked. I think most women can do better than they realize if attacked. Just fight back as hard as you can. One of the most difficult students to attack was 90-95lbs, she was quick, hit hard, and got away quickly.

Hope I did not ramble too much. Big Kahuna reminded me of when I used to do that. I thought some of that might be useful:)
 
Most of the security these days seems to be electronic. Through security cameras they can watch you shoplift, beat your kids and even take your last breath. Doesn't that make you feel secure? That lighting in the lot just makes for a better picture.
Good luck with knife combatives.
 
A kubaton or something like it is a good weapon that requires very little training.
In the car a screwdriver which becomes a combination of a kubaton and a knife, also works well in confined spaces. Also both are legal weapons to carry they are concealable and convenient as well as very effective.
 
Have you considered stunguns? Nothing like thousands of volts of electricity to brighten up some scumbag's day :)
 
For the women folks.........

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:
1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are:
If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back.
Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm, between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh-HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.


PLEASE READ, THEN FORWARD THIS TO EVERY WOMAN YOU KNOW, IT'S SIMPLE STUFF BUT IT COULD SAVE A LIFE.
 
Went with a Lady that was Raped!Believe it or not,ran into a program where the women were taught to ,YELL,STOP!!THEN hold up their hand in a stop gesture! YELLING STOP again more forcefully if they continued to move toward her!(WHAT A LOAD OF crap)! Had a woman I trained,tell me after ,I prob. saved her life "if" in the future BUT!! I was NOT a nice man!
THE SAINT!
 
I was NOT a nice man!
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Get your grammar right Duck, "was not" implies past tense.:p You're right though, some of the so called "defense classes for women" (don't throw bricks at me guys, note that I said "some")are just a load of crap that could get 'em hurt. For women, I personally subscribe to a rule that's been around among predators and prey throughout all time, safety in numbers . You never hear tale of a group of women joggers being raped, it's always that independent soul out doing her own thing, that thought, "it would never happen to me".

Safety in numbers doesn't just apply to women either. Don't know how many police reports I've read about guys getting beaten up, stabbed/shot, and robbed. Read into them and the salient facts pop out at you. Time: 3 a.m., Place: adjacent to a public road, Activity: walking home alone from a bar after closing time. Here we got poor situational awareness, poor security awareness, impaired judgement, and impaired physical ability. Might as well wear a neon sign that says "victim".:grumpy:

Sarge
 
Sarge,
Grammer was correct"NOT" was BEFORE I became a THE SAINT!;)
NOW I am just a sweet,kind,gentle,wonderful,refined,softspoken,thinks of everyone as being generous,old researcher!rolleyes: You have a PROBLEM with this you heathen!!
THE SAINT!:cool:
 
Safety in numbers. Hmmmmm, seems that generally holds true. Guess there is some merit in not looking like a "target".
 
Originally posted by jim_l_clifton
NOW I am just a sweet,kind,gentle,wonderful,refined,softspoken,thinks of everyone as being generous,old researcher!rolleyes:
Click to expand...

THAt DId IT! YOU made ME :barf: ALL over my KEyboard!!! :eek:
 
Have your wife park under a light...even if it means parking out of the area managment wants her to park. Working the night shift they probably don't really care too much where she parks as long as it's not at the front entrance.
Walk head up and scanning. they want to surprise the unwary.
Leave in pairs if at all possible.
Learn what other employees drive. "I don't reconise that van.."
What ever form of defense she/you decide on practice with it! scrambling around trying to figure out how to point the o.c. in the right direction is not good. Have her have it in her grasp , hand in her purse. If you decide on a knife go with a kerambit/ la griffe style. It's perfect for the way most women react...flailing/slashing.
 
The lady on our street who was attacked screamed so loud I could hear her at the back of our house 5 houses down from where she was attacked. The guy ran off.
 
Thanks guys for the tips. I know when I was attacked that I froze up and couldn't think of any of the right things to do. I couldn't even find my voice I was so scared. Yeah, safety in numbers...there were 3 of them and 1 of me. That's what I get for being assigned to an odd squadron way on the other side of base and having to walk home alone. I was an easy target. I know this now but then there was no other way to get home. So what do you do?? I will never be caught alone or unaware again. NEVER! I know I miss out on a few things that I could do, but the memory of that incident weighs heavy. Call me a wimp, i don't care. It's not going to happen again!
 
Ain't nobody with any sense or any class going to call you a wimp Gin. What happened to you was a terrible thing, and I'm sure you look back and ponder what you would've, could've, should've done. Don't dwell on it overmuch, that's a no win. Instead use the wisdom you've gained, yes wisdom, real wisdom doesn't come cheap. Use it to help others not stumble into the same ditch.

Sarge
 
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