OT Things We Don't Trust In Each Other

Thanks Spectre. I know what you mean about those 'quotas' we used to have them in the social work field as a dodge against having a team of whatevers assist the whatever user group. Anyway, I once got a job just because I was something they needed for their quota. I really hated it, but I needed the cash badly 'cause no one else would hire me. The good news is that I was overqualified for my job, and ended up helping a lot of people.
 
I dont trust that 'it doesn't matter' is the right thing to think.

I could say the second amendment doesn't matter; neither does a government. It doesn't matter if people are corrupt. Or does it?

I guess my point is you should never say that things dont matter. they matter, to someone. someone thinks about it. it is important.

we're all somewhat biased i guess...

....

on to the topic:

i dont trust in the goodness of people. surprisingly, i find myself doing good things, and then i wonder why i did.

Keno
 
I said it didn't matter why I might be murdered- given a context of various unworthy reasons. You are taking that out of context now by saying-

<<<I dont trust that 'it doesn't matter' is the right thing to think.>>> Richard Allen


Of course prejudice matters. We are talking about the solution. Deciding if I hate you is a special crime, but if you hate me is not, is only a way of keeping people dependent.


munk
 
All kidding aside (even though I DO think we all are discriminated against based on our looks--bald/scalp impaired, fat/thin, ugly/attractive black or white hispanic or native american) I have been the victim of racial discrimination a number of times over a period of 4 years while in Hawaii and it hurts. The thing that was really awful was knowing that I couldn't avoid it because it was based on my skin color. I am pretty sure I didn't get jobs because of it too, and I nearly got beat up as well. Does it compare with someone who has experienced it since they were old enough to notice? No. But I do understand, at least a little.

I don't think quotas are the way to go however. They breed racism where none may have existed before.
 
The other day my daughter came to me with a doozie. She said," What's the use in being kind to everyone, they just walk all over you if you do." What could I say. She's experienced the ugly side too early in life and she has a point. But I told her that ultimately the good will win over, so persevere and chin up and all that stuff. But it is sad that we see it in the schools really early. The ugly and the stupid and those that dress different are outcast. And unfortunately a lot of teachers stand by and let it happen. What happens to us shapes how we respond to lifes little trials and big trials. It's hard to let go of some of the unjustices that have been thrown our way. I think we become a tad bit cynical the older we get and the more we see. Don't know, but I'm thinking.....
 
Tell your daughter to guard her kindness and use it where it can flower. School and Jail have this in common; no one dares speak their mind there. (unless it's filthy.)



munk
 
It's kind of funny how two people can agree on so many points while being at opposite ends of the spectrum about so much. I'd say I agree with pretty much all of the below:

munk said:
I don't trust a majority of Americans to understand the Second Amendment.

I do think reasonable men can disagree about Iraq. That's complex and problematic. But I don't think a majority will ever figure out that it is nearly as big an offense to take offense as it is to give it. That's too hard. Asking, "Who do I think I am to take offense?" is too hard. It would mean not imposing your ego upon the world. It would mean accepting humility. Naw- not us. How dare you do that to me.

If I am murdered, it makes no difference to me if that occured because I was Black, a Lesbian, smelled bad, or voted Republican. Codifying special consequences or special handling of protected classes of persons impairs the creation of a society where all are equal not only before the Law, but to each other. But I don't expect 50% of you to understand that, especially if it is your plate being piled high under whatever cultural 'flavor of the month' is being rewarded, whatever pet cause temporarily in vogue.

I don't expect the manufacturers of Radio Flyer to figure out that if they make their famous Red Wagon out of thinner metal that falls apart quickly under use, that consumers will figure that out and stop buying Radio Flyers. I'm not sure if the Consumers will figure it out either.

I don't expect to ever get Yogurt common on the Market with 5% milk fat again. It tasted too good. We can't have that. I do expect to live in a world where when I ask for cream in my coffee at a Restaruant, that I'll be served 2% milk.

I trust we will never stop homogenizing milk, even though that counts for raised chorlesteral levels. Once we start something idiotic, it's very hard for us to stop.

We can't have nativity scenes in public or Christian displays, but some little known religious observation from the Congo of 200 years ago is quaint. If we allowed the Christans a display, they would take over the world. Oops- this goes back to the last paragraph- we don't find solutions because we're forced to choose from two extremes. We live in an either or world.

Well, that's about all I can think of at the moment. Feel free to add your own. You might add you don't trust anyone to make a list like this because their own pet peeves get into the mix, and that's certainly true enough.

We just don't trust each other period, plain and simple. I don't trust you, and you don't trust me. This Halloween in most of the US our children will stay home, and not go door to door for candy. We'll attend special safe parties and events, and watch the Disney channel on TV.

munk
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I'd also add that I don't trust pretty much anyone to make a rational decision about laws relating to individual rights or liberties. We've become a prison nation. Our solution to everything is to pass another law and increase the penalties for existing laws. Every Lifetime special breeds a new group of victims and newest, most heinous crime. And, when we can't find a new one, we increase funding for persecution of and lower the requirements for proof on an old one. Anytime someone says, "Hey, maybe completely disenfranchising a large number of people forever from a large number of professions, employment in most companies and government jobs, joining the military, getting student aid, having the right to vote, to hold elected or appointed ofice, carry a firearm, drive to work, etc. causes more problems than it solves or just doesn't exactly fit what America is supposed to be." they're accused of "re-arming felons" if they're conservative and "being soft on crime" if they're liberal. I blame both sides, which are whittling away at fundamental rights and liberties in an attempt to push their social and political agendas with a combined effect of us having less overall freedom.

I also don't trust anyone to make rational judgements about safety. Look back at the thread on Halloween pranks and think about how today's safety first crowd (not to mention the everything is a crime crowd) would react to the things in there. Why are kids dressing up like hockey goalies to ride a bike? Why is getting a 12-year old boy a pocket knife looked upon like you're handing him a crack pipe? Everything is safety, safety, safety. It's like people forgot that scars are the price of an interesting life. :)

munk said:
I do agree, however, that if I was murdered because I was a Lesbian, and you can prove I was, than we need to notify medical science imediately that the next Evolutionary step has been breached.
munk
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I do agree, however, that if I was murdered because I voted Republican, and you can prove that I did, then we need to notify space science immediately that either the moon landing was faked or Diebold made the voting machines. ;)
 
Excellent thread. The kind of rational, mature discussion that I love about this place.

SASSAS, I especially liked your point about the 12-year old and the pocket knife. Even in college, when my peers see my pocket knife (about a 3" blade, nothing big) clipped to my pocket, they are vaguely confused and alarmed, and ask me in a worried voice if it's a knife. Then, when I say that it is, they inevitably ask me "what the heck do you need that for?" Sometimes I try to set them straight. Sometimes I can see it's no use. Society indeed conditions people to fear weapons and tools. Because everybody knows, knives are only used to kill innocent people.


Nam
 
SASSAS

You've hit upon something I always return to- no redemption. A healthy society needs a process of redemption so an individual can re-join. That would take a lot of the stress out of those who speak in terms of what is 'appropriate' behavior.



munk
 
munk said:
SASSAS

You've hit upon something I always return to- no redemption. A healthy society needs a process of redemption so an individual can re-join. That would take a lot of the stress out of those who speak in terms of what is 'appropriate' behavior.



munk
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Kind of funny, when I was writing this, the phrase "without redemption" kept running through my head, but I couldn't figure out a place to put it.
 
We're connected to the Himalayan Imports collective unconscious. And, since you've obviously stumbled upon a munk wave length, you must now ask yourself: Is that a good thing?





munk
 
mamav, I think it's possible to live a long time as a concious person. Maybe if your daughter thought of her goodness as a 'personality test' to find other people like her it might help. I think she would probably get along better with people who didn't instantly try and exploit her too.
 
munk?

It might have seemed so, but I wasn't really refering to your murder statement. It was more a general statement than anything else.

regards,

Keno
 
If you fail to trust enough, they will call you paranoid.

At least that is what the good folks at the VA say. As for me, I don't trust what they tell me.
 
munk said:
We're connected to the Himalayan Imports collective unconscious. And, since you've obviously stumbled upon a munk wave length, you must now ask yourself: Is that a good thing?





munk
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Welcome to the borg...
 
Thanks for clarifying, Richard Allen. I appreciate it!!

I'm not a fan of the 'sh-t happens,' or 'it doesn't matter' crowd either.

Though naturally enough, there are times you gotta say each of those things and walk away!



munk
 
We do not have trust, because too many times that trust was broken and we become wary. To continually trust when being taken advantage of is plain stupid.

You use the second ammendment as an example. The right to keep and bear arms is a right of an American. But how many murders have occured from firearms for greed, in the name of anger and simple nonchalance? People have killed because they felt like it at times. But we still have the right to keep and bear arms and we should. But we need to be wary of those who may not do so responsibly.

How many con artists take advantage of those who trust? How many people make a product or service to specifically rip off unsuspecting folks?

We do not trust and I am glad for the children who did not trust and did not get poisoned apples, razor blades and drugs in their candy at Halloween. I am glad I did not trust the other guy at the intersection as he was talking on his cell phone and blew a red light three days ago. I am glad I did not trust my bank acount recently when my deposit posted $100 less than the check amount.

It would be great to have unconditional trust in our fellow man, but that trust has to be earned. There are good people out there who have earned trust. There are those who have betrayed our trust. All we can do is be the best we can.
 
Good post, sharpetoys.

Trust is something to be dealt out on an individual basis, IMO. There are people to whom I would entrust my life without a second thought. There are people whom I would not entrust with a ball of my pocket lint. There is trustworthiness in society, but it is not universal. Thus, judgment becomes key. To trust is no sin, but to be careless with this trust is naive. It must be used carefully.

Nam
 
We allow too many filters between ourselves and reality to really understand people, which inhibits the development of trust. I think once we stop looking for examples of goodness in our fellow man on the TV news and go out into the world we'll find there's a lot more if it than we've been conditioned to expect.

I agree with the philosophy of, "Forgive your enemies, but remember their names."
 
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