OT: Woodchuck advice wanted: fishing knife

Aardvark

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Nov 26, 2002
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This is my first ever knife project (first of many, I hope), and I could use a little help.

I bought a fish fillet knife blank (from Ragweed Forge) and have shaped a handle for it out of red oak.

What is the best method of finishing the handle against the salt water/air environment that it will be used in:

1) TrueOil
2) SuperGlue
3) other

Also, I am at the point of afixing the blade to the handle. My plans are to:
1) Drill a small pilot hole in the handle
2) Use a mini-rasp to enlarge the hole so that the blank will fit
3) Fill the hole with epoxy
4) Put the tang of the blank in
5) Let it dry

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

Joe
 
Joe,

On your list, superglue provides the most saltwater resistant finish - be ready to apply 10-12 coats, though.

IIRC, Red Oak has a tight grain and while oils can provide a good finish, it won't last as long as the superglue. Personally, I don't like superglue finishes and would have used a semi-synthetic material for the handle (like dymondwood, etc.)

If you put on enough coats, the superglue will also keep the wood from "moving" due to moisture changes. It's a fair substitute for non-stabilized handles.

You might also take a file and rough up the tang with grooves to provide more "grip" for the epoxy.

A vice is best for holding stick-tang projects for glue-up. Just pinch the blade between pieces of leather in the vice. This makes it easier to keep the handle aligned to the blade while the epoxy sets up. If you don't have a vice, use locking pliers (again with leather scraps to protect the finish).

After all is said and done, coat the blade with a good food-grade wax and reapply after each use.

Dan
 
Thanks, Dan. I'll try the superglue.

I dug up Yvsa's instructions out of the forum archives, and will give it a go this weekend.

To summarize:

1) Adequate ventilation
2) Vinyl or latex gloves
3) Put a small amount on the handle and rub briskly with gloved finger until smooth and dry
4) Repeat 3 until handle is covered
5) Sand down high points with 150-220 grit wet/dry paper
6) Repeat 3 - 5 until desired number of coats is applied
7) Final sanding is with 2000 grit Si Carbide
8) Finish with rottenstone
9) Adequate ventilation

I plan to attach the blade AFTER finishing the handle (I'll drill/file the hole beforehand). Is that the proper order?

Joe
 
Originally posted by Aardvark
Thanks, Dan. I'll try the superglue.

I plan to attach the blade AFTER finishing the handle (I'll drill/file the hole beforehand). Is that the proper order?

Joe

Joe it doesn't matter which you do first. The main thing is to make sure all the surfaces are covered with something to prevent any water from seeping in.
Either way just be sure to wrap the handle Or the blade with two or three layers of masking tape.
Actually I would probably wrap up both either way I chose to assemble it to keep the epoxy off both the blade and the handle.
Finishing the handle first is probably a good idea after thinking about it a little.

I strongly agree with Dan about using a synthetic material although I would probably opt for a stabilized wood or Micarta instead of the Dymondwood.
However Dan did say, "or similar.":D
 
Originally posted by Yvsa
..I would probably opt for a stabilized wood or Micarta instead of the Dymondwood.However Dan did say, "or similar.":D

I hate that @#$%& micarta stuff...blech...:barf:

:D

Re: finish handle first?

Personally, I'm a fairly sloppy guy and I tend to bang things around a bit when I fit up handles, so I save the finish for last. However, as Yvsa pointed out, that means more clean up afterwards - something that's worth it for me (vs. ruining a finish with epoxy).

Trust me when I say, "Whatever you do this time...somehow, your next one will be better." ;)

Don't be afraid of improvement.

In other words - you can almost guarantee that you'll find mistakes afterward and (hopefully) learn from them.

It's just not fair if you don't....:( :confused:

:D :p :D
 
Yvsa,

I chose the red oak because I had it. Been sitting around for about 10 years. Are you (and Dan) saying that I'm sort of wasting my time with this, because it's going to be ruined quickly anyway?

This is intended as a gift for a relative, BTW, so I don't want give away something inferior. Not perfect is OK, but not terrible.

Thanks.
 
Aged wood is great for handles, especially a hardwood like oak. If the grain is fairly straight and tight, I wouldn't worry about it.

Just let your friend know they can't let it sit in a jar overnight, or strap it to their leg and go diving, and so on...

[edited to add]

Stabilized materials can take longer to work, and some have toxic dust. So, IMHO, you're better off with a heavy superglue finish on your oak.

After you've made a few more, try one with dymondwood (nevermind Yvsa...:p ). It's a stable material, looks like wood (avoid the multi-colored ones), is fairly easy to work, and is dirt cheap - about $4 a block.

Then, when you feel more confident down the road - get some fancy materials...:cool:
 
1. Give it a try.
2. If it doesn't work, learn a lot and do it again.
3. Post a field report
4. Repeat 1-3 ad infinitum or ad nauseam.
 
Thanks for the good advice, all.

It's been said often before, but this place is great.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Joe
 
I've recently been messing about putting wooden handles on a couple of inexpensive blades. I've been using G B Weld for the glue. Here's why I like it:

It's intended for metal so it ought to stick to it.

Slow drying...24 hr. Plenty of time to get things positioned.

After a couple of hours the excess can be scraped of easily with a sharp tool (I usually carve mine from bits of wood). At this stage the consistency is sorta like play-dough--and its not as tacky any more. It's much easier to deal with than other epoxies I've used, which stay pretty tacky and drippy until dry. Saw it recommended on the maker's forum for attaching guards for this very reason. Way easier than dealing with excess solder if you catch it at the right stage of drying.

It's not runny, so it stays where its put.

Downside:

Since it's not runny, it's harder to get everywhere it should be and fill voids. Some makers seem to use extra-thin marine epoxies for this reason.

It's gray. that can be good or bad, depending on what kind of void it fills. I fit things up with wooden wedges if part of the hole winds up oversize for the tang, so the color doesn't bother me much.

Gonna have to whip up a batch of cutler's resin sometime though--I kinda like the idea of being able to get the thing apart if one wants/needs to without destroying the handle.

Be interested to hear what others think is the best adhesive.
 
Ive used J B Weld before hilting a couple blades. Very solid attachment. Though there really is no good way to non-destructively remove the stuff. Anyways I tried J B Weld because it was recommended by some farmer friends. For some reason, when a farmer gives me advice I tend to listen.:D
 
Yep, J.B.Weld is good stuff!!!!:)

I used it on the As Forged Chainpuri Blade I made the handle for. It does work beautifully in sealing the bolster away from any seepage from the blade side of the knife.
Assembling the whole handle and associated parts with it does keep any fluids from reaching the tang.

It's been my experience however that you have to let it set up a bit before assembly if you don't want it to run. It does have a fairly long work time which I also like.
 
My components at this point are:

1) Red oak handle, with a mostly square front (where the bolster would be)
2) Stainless steel fish fillet blank
3) Superglue for handle finish
4) JB Weld to attach blade to handle

(anyone noticed that I like lists?)

I'm thinking that the whole thing will look kind of, well, unfinished. Sort of like a face with no eyebrows.

Should I be considering a bolster/guard of some kind? And if so, what material?

Thanks again.
 
Bolster/guard...up to you I guess!

If the wood's good and well-sealed probably not essential for a fillet knife strength-wise. Guard is personal preference. I'd prefer a slight shaping of the handle--guards get in the way for a lot of food/meat prep.

My limited understanding is that other than looks, they may accomplish the following depending upon design:

Seal off and protect the endgrain of the handle and tang.

A flat plate of the same shape as the end of the handle with a fitted slot for the tang/ricasso does this when glued. If it extends past the width of the handle it becomes a guard. 1/8" brass is OK and easy to work. Aluminum, maybe a little thicker could work too and the color won't contrast with the glue if the fit isn't perfect.. The trick is cutting/fitting the slot. Some blades have a rectangular ricasso which is preferred. Some have no plunge cut and the bevel goes all the way back into the lower part of the tang (Ericsson). Fitting those is a b*tch. You can't get files thin enough for the job. The tang is also radiussed to the ricasso, so careful filing is needed to fit, and probably thicker stock for larger blades. Some like to file that radius on the tang out and get a butt-joint to the wider ricasso instead trying to counter sink a little. I don't like the idea of the stress riser, and the brass is easier to file too.

Spacers are like the above only thicker and can also be made of horn, antler, etc. Added benefit the use a more split resistant material for the part of the handle that gets the most stress. If the wooden handle is thick enough, probably not a big issue for a filet knife. Perhaps a spacer of Corian or other synthetic would work well on the fillet knife. Could be made of metal also, but dunno if spacer would be the right name. Of course, can be combined with a end-plate like above.

My primitive (for USA) tools are a power hand-drill and little files and saws. Fitting a metal spacer would be a bit rough for me. I use brass plate, drill out a row of holes, and start to cut the rest with a cold chisel. Redrill the now smaller holes and chisel again. Pretty soon the chisel will get through and the file works. Lay the thing flat on an improvised anvil and whap it with a hammer if the slot gets a little big. The metal will flow out and decrease the size a bit. Then sand flat. Don't think this would work well if you've got much thicker stock or the metal is steel. If you've got access to a mill, well that's different.

Ferrules and bolsters like HI uses enclose the end of the handle and also strenthen the handle against splitting due to torque. Fabrication is outta my league. Maybe one could cold-hammer brass tube to shape on a mandrel or horn of a tiny anvil. Or hammer sheet cut to right shape over a metal form and solder. Getting the forms is the problem. Also at some point annealing and/or hot hammering will be needed.

Maybe you can get some ideas from the fittings offered at Ragweed Forge.

Let us know how it turns out. I've got a curved piece of peach-tree root that I think I've managed to quick-cure and it's telling me it wants to be a fillet knife handle.
 
Wow. As always, more than expected.

I figure I understand about 63% of what you wrote. Had to look up 'ricasso'.

Anyway, looks like I'll try what we, between us, will call a 'spacer': a piece of aluminum ground to fit the blade-end of the handle. I've got a few stray pieces laying about that I can use, about 1/8" (or slightly less) thick.

I hope to work on it again this weekend. The handle is pretty much shaped. I modelled it after a Mora knife whose shape feels real good in my hand.

My tools are just as primitive as yours, so the going will probably be slow.

I'll keep you informed.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Aardvark,

Glad it helped. I've just been going through trying to figure out how to do the same thing with a minimum of tools and knowledge. Dunno what the right name for the little metal plate with the slot is if it's not elongated to form a guard. As I understand it, a spacer is 1/2 " or more so that it really is part of the handle.

I was probably not too clear on the fitting. I'll try again:

If the slot in the required in the metal is rectangular, it's a lot easier. Some blades are sharpened so far back that one end of the slot looks like a rectangle, the other like an acute triangle. Those are tough to fit. They can be force-fitted the very last bit into hardwood and maybe other materials, but splitting may be a danger. Cutting a slot in metal to match the bevel on a thin blade is too much for me. Fortunately, it looks like the Ericsson blades are the only ones ground that far back.

The other thing is the taper of the tang. The slot needs to match it as well as possible. And you don't want a gap between where the blade ends and the plate. The corner of the end of the blade and the tang should be rounded, that's stronger. So I use jeweler's files to counter-sink the slot to match the shape at the tang/blade junction. The alternative, which I don't like, is to file the rounded inside of the corner of the tang/blade junction so that everything is square. Easier fitting, but sharp inside corners are where cracks start under stress. The blade/tang junction gets the most stress--that's why it's thickest there. Patience is the key. And a vise.

I haven't seen a saw around here with blades fine enough to pass through the holes I drill to start the slot. The blades I've been mounting aren't thick. I know such saws exist, but I don't really want to spend the money for one right now. They look like little coping saws and jewelry makers use them. So I bash with a chisel.

Oh yeah, It helps to sand down the flat sides of the full length of the tang. And the top and bottom. You don't want any little bumps in the way of sliding on the slotted metal plate. The fit will be sloppy if the slot was made big enough to pass over a bump somewhere on the tang.

Hopefully I can get the next one fitted well enought to try and solder it.

If this made things more confusing, forget I said it!!
 
This will undoubtedly be a lot clearer when I have the blade in front of me. I've been concentrating so much on the handle, that I've almost forgotten what the blade looks like.

Ok, we won't call it a 'spacer', since I don't have any intention of fastening a 1/2" of anything on the front. Maybe a 'front cap'?
 
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