Outdoor/Camping/Survival Knife Preferences

[Andros]

I know you mentioned your activities, but you need to refine your requirements. What do you want the knife to do and are you willing to practice those skills necessary to become proficient?

Very nice observation!

I love large knives and big choppers, but I honestly don’t carry them much; they’re just too large and cumbersome for the majority of my activities. I may have one in the pack, but I want my primary blade on my person.

Since I strongly encourage having that primary knife on your person, it really makes sense to make it a much more manageable size to carry comfortably. A lot of much more experienced knife users will often recommend a fixed blade knife with a blade between 4-5 inches; and for good reason. I would hazard a guess that over 90% of most knife tasks could be completed with this size of belt knife and with some modified methods could even be used for that last 10%, although they may not be the most efficient, they ‘could’ do the job if needed.

Same here.

Thickness is really not needed and often means more unnecessary weight.

It depends on the use of the knife.

For belt knives, I like to keep them under 3/16”; thinner knives with a wide profile are quite strong and much better cutters.

Sound option as long as you don't engage in heavy wood splitting/prying.

Steel type has an incredible variance. I like good standard high-carbon steels; 1095, 1065, A2, etc. However, I do have knives with more modern steels that perform well. The trick is to find something that is easier to maintain in the field. Carbon needs a little more attention, but I find it easier to keep sharp in the field.

Steel is an important parameter for sure. Another extremely important parameter, which is often unappreciated, is the heat treatment protocol and heat treatment accuracy followed in the making of any particular knife. This along with the blade profile are what make the steel alloy show its true potential!

Don’t forget the sheath as part of your system. It’s quite important to have something that not only safely retains your knife, but is easy to access and return. How you carry your knife should seamlessly integrate into your clothing and pack wear.

I agree.

my recommendation would be to first look at some quality “off the shelf” designs, such as ESSE (4), Fallkniven (F1), or Bark River (already mentioned the Bravo-1).

I second that!

My Martin Knives BT model:

Ironically enough, I ordered this particular model with 1095 steel and they mistakenly sent me an S30V steel variant. It has performed quite well and now has a very good convex edge on it. The sheath is an integral part of my system and includes a small Bird & Trout blade, Fallkniven DC4 sharpening stone and my homemade ferro rods with a pill fob handle holding tinder.

ROCK6

This is a nice and stout knife! Also the sheath looks very well made and the whole package is very well thought out!

 

[Andros]

The one thing I would not want to do without is this; I have cut thousands of small trees, etc. with this while working on trails. Be careful, it can be dangerous....very sharp. Here it is, the Silky Pocketboy:

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/p...sp?mi=26281&title=Silky+Pocketboy+Folding+Saw

I like the 130mm in the large tooth size. You can buy different blades for it that are finer. This works well when I do want a fire while backpacking. Good for household uses as well. I use it all the time to cut up 2x4's, etc. These saws are the Rolls Royce of saws and priced like them too. I own 2 or 3 different Silky models and would not even consider purchasing another brand.

I would almost rather have the Silky saw with a spare blade than a knife in a winter survival situation. I could saw down dead limbs all day in the Missouri woods very quickly which the quickness is pretty important.

I agree! I've been to the Western Sierras twice since last summer and I've had a SILKY BIGBOY 2000 and a SILKY POCKETBOY 170 (LG Teeth). I went through oak and pine with amazing ease. My friends were impressed by the cutting power of both of them. I think that as far as hand saws go, SILKY's are at the top of the food chain!

 

[Andros]

You have to know that's going to cause blow-back from Becker fans. I think the only you thing you can factually say is that INFI is a superior steel to any 1095, but beyond that your getting too much into personal preferences

People are free to choose what they want. I have owned knives from Busse, Swamp Rat, Bark River and Becker. Things are what they are. If some people are offended because of that, that's too bad. It's as if someone gets offended because I say that a Porsche 911 has better handling than a Toyota Camry. I am not putting down any product, I am just stating the facts.

 

[Andros]

Cutting, chopping, and sawing were the three skills I learnt in Scouts many years ago
And these three skills need three different tools
Keeping these functions seperate means you do not stress your tools and they do not break
And therefore the tools do not have to be manically uber strong as the modern trend demands

Cutting is a simple knife
Chopping can be a hatchet, long knife, or short machete
Sawing can be a garden pruner, a folding Sliky type, or a bow saw

Your knife choice changes when you carry a knife, a hatchet, and a folding saw
So basically any 4 inch slicing knife

Nicely said!

 

[Andros]

I am looking for a fixed blade for general outdoor use, camping, some bushcraft, some hunting, and survival type stuff. I guess to put a name to it, a survival knife.

I was wondering what steels, handles, blade styles, blade lengths, and blade thicknesses you much more experienced knife enthusiasts prefer, or would suggest. Also, specific knives that you prefer would be interesting to see.

I seem to prefer drop point or spear type blades, between 4 and 7 inches, from .15 to .25 inches thick, and with a longer yet thinner handle. The problem with that, however, is that it is a wide range of preferences.

So basically I would just like to read what you all have to say about a knife for such purposes.

Thanks

ALLHSS

So far, I have read many very well written replies to your question. I just have one question for you which I don't think it has been asked: what is your budget?

 

[B.F.U]

I haven't been replying much because I use my school's internet on my computer while I'm at school and just read posts on my phone, but I think this question is important to the discussion in general. I have looked at knives from $13 (mora companion) to 220 (spyderco temperance 2), but I would prefer to pay under $150.

I know this has nothing to do with your question, and may not be seen because it is in a reply, but what do you (and everyone else) think of leaf shaped blades and the use of stainless steels specifically the vg10 spyderco uses)? I know there have been posts about steel being preference and various other things, but I haven't gotten to read all the posts yet, so I'm sorry if this has already been answered.

 

[Andros]

I haven't been replying much because I use my school's internet on my computer while I'm at school and just read posts on my phone, but I think this question is important to the discussion in general. I have looked at knives from $13 (mora companion) to 220 (spyderco temperance 2), but I would prefer to pay under $150.

I know this has nothing to do with your question, and may not be seen because it is in a reply, but what do you (and everyone else) think of leaf shaped blades and the use of stainless steels specifically the vg10 spyderco uses)? I know there have been posts about steel being preference and various other things, but I haven't gotten to read all the posts yet, so I'm sorry if this has already been answered.

Let's take one step at a time. The Mora Companion is an excellent knife. The Spyderco Temperance 2 is an excellent knife. In post #23 "pinnah" wrote:

Opinel in my pocket. Folding saw in the pack.

I agree with that statement as well. So, what is the conclusion? It has to do with the terrain, the intended use and the skill of the user. A few years ago I gave as a gift a large Opinel to a friend of mine and he has nothing but the best words for it. For what he uses it, really is an excellent knife! Would I use that to split wood? No way! Would I use that around the camp kitchen? You bet I would! Would I use it to create a fuzz stick? Easy! The Mora Companion which in essence is a Mora Clipper with Sandvik 12c27 Swedish Stainless Steel (the Clipper has a blade of high carbon steel) is an excellent knife for creating wood shavings and taking care of various camp kitchen related tasks. Can you split good size branches with it? I wouldn't advise that.

VG10 is a good steel but it is not easy to sharpen. Once an old colleague of mine bought a brand new Old School Spyderco Military from me. Leaf shaped blade out of VG10. He went on a wild boar hunt with some other guys. They brought down a hog that when I saw it in the picture, I told him "hey man, I didn't know you were that good with photoshop"! That thing was huge and it was real! He confessed that when the other huntsmen saw his knife they started laughing at him telling him "why did you bring that thing here for? To peel a potato or, something?". Well, after they downed that hog they went for the dressing job and their knives couldn't go through the hog's skin. Eventually, they asked him to try use his. He told made that it literally zipped right through that thick skin and cut the pig open. Not only that, but it also cut the limbs at the joints so that they could quarter it. When I saw the blade it was still very sharp and had a couple of dings. I sharpened it using the Spyderco Sharpmaker and in a few moments it was back to razor sharp! So, for this purpose, it proved an excellent tool!

Leaf shaped blades have in general a low drag configuration. As the blade transitions from the spine to the edge, it is done at a more gradual pace thus providing a smaller inclusive angle. This means that you have a good slicer while you still have substantial steel mass without the blade being very thick.

The key is to determine the use that you intend to apply your knife to. Have you seen the Bark River Trail Buddy or, the Bark River Canadian Special? They are extremely well made knives with an unconditional lifetime warranty. Made out of A2 tool steel, you can use them for anything from skinning a dear all the way to making kindling and preparing your meal.

You may want to ask "O.K. now. Then, what is the difference between VG10 and A2?". In many cases the majority of users will be hard pressed to notice any difference. VG10 is significantly more stain resistant than A2 (which by the way is more stain resistant than 1095 and O1 tool steel) but A2 is much tougher than VG10. I would also say that A2 gets sharper and it is much easier to re-sharpen it than VG10. Again, I think that blade/edge geometry and heat treatment are more important than VG10 vs. A2. Remember, all of the above hold for the average user because if you push the steels, then you will be able to detect differences but you have to be really experienced to be able to see that. I don't want to be more technical since I don't mean to tire you.

I hope that helps. Feel free to even send me an email with any additional questions you may have.

 

[B.F.U]

Well, first off, I'm certainly no expert. I grew up in a family that hunted, camped, and worked outdoors as an assumed part of life, so I have some learned ability but no training or purposeful practice. The terrain would be the hilly forests of Pennsylvania, whether it be the Susquehanna valley or Kinzua country, or basically wherever I go in the woods. The use would be really whatever I need a tool to do while in the woods that I would not use my forest axe or saw for. I would not be battoning, unless really in a bind, and would generally use my axe for chopping and saw for sawing. However, there are times when I only carry a sheath knife, such as hunting and orienteering, and I have gotten rather out of place. So, I do want something reliable enough to use overnight.

I had a spyderco caly 3.5 and it was great. Sadly, I lost it but now have a spyderco native. Although I really like the native as a folder, and it is my edc, it does not have liners and has a bit short of a blade. That's why I'm looking for a new fixed blade. As of now I'm using an old russian recurve knife, of unknown steel, my dad brought me. However, the blade shape is not very convenient, the sheath is hard to use and I check to make sure I still have it every few minutes, and the steel has to be sharpened pretty much every time I take it out.

Thanks for the info on leaf shaped blades, I've always liked them for folders but didn't know for fixed.

Those do look like great knives, and I know you get what you pay for, they are just a bit out of my budget.

I was looking at some d2 knives, and it sounds like a2 would be a far better choice. Thanks for that comparison. All of your posts have been helpful.

 

[22-rimfire]

Well, first off, I'm certainly no expert. I grew up in a family that hunted, camped, and worked outdoors as an assumed part of life, so I have some learned ability but no training or purposeful practice. The terrain would be the hilly forests of Pennsylvania, whether it be the Susquehanna valley or Kinzua country, or basically wherever I go in the woods. The use would be really whatever I need a tool to do while in the woods that I would not use my forest axe or saw for. I would not be battoning, unless really in a bind, and would generally use my axe for chopping and saw for sawing. However, there are times when I only carry a sheath knife, such as hunting and orienteering, and I have gotten rather out of place. So, I do want something reliable enough to use overnight.

I had a spyderco caly 3.5 and it was great. Sadly, I lost it but now have a spyderco native. Although I really like the native as a folder, and it is my edc, it does not have liners and has a bit short of a blade. That's why I'm looking for a new fixed blade. As of now I'm using an old russian recurve knife, of unknown steel, my dad brought me. However, the blade shape is not very convenient, the sheath is hard to use and I check to make sure I still have it every few minutes, and the steel has to be sharpened pretty much every time I take it out.

Those do look like great knives, and I know you get what you pay for, they are just a bit out of my budget.

I was looking at some d2 knives, and it sounds like a2 would be a far better choice. Thanks for that comparison. All of your posts have been helpful.

I have roamed those same hills and valleys. Nice country. Went to the Kinzua bridge long before it was ever a state park. Very cool!

D2 is good steel. Bob Dozier is the king of D2. He makes some fine knives but they are mostly above your price range, although many are not a lot above. Basically $200 > $250 is pretty common pricing. My EDC fixed blade is a small Dozier blade which I love.

I like A2. My Blackjacks are in A2. My general woods knife (Blackjack 125) ran me about $150 give or take $10. They are very under rated knives and you seldom even hear mention of them on Blade Forums.

Take a look at the Fallkniven fixed blades with the black plastic handles. They aren't real expensive, but are great knives for using. The F1 is all you really need or go a little larger in their line up. Good steel (VG-10).

The SOG seal pup elite (plain edge) may be something you like. The Northwest Ranger is also a pretty fair knife. It is too large for my general woods use knife. You can often do better than SOGs for the money if you shop around, but they still aren't bad knives.

Queen makes some basic fixed blades for under $75 that aren't bad but you will likely have to put a good edge on it before you use it.

The ESEE-3 would do much of what you want.

I very much prefer the blade shape that Rock showed (#33). I have tried drop points and they don't thrill me. The Spyderco Moran (VG-10) would be an excellent hunting and general use knife. I have one of these and it is a great knife for the money. It may be smaller than what you want. Your Native is a great little folder, got one.

 

[neeman]

Queen makes some basic fixed blades for under $50
Sweet solid knives

Added

In their excellent D2

 

[Andros]

Well, first off, I'm certainly no expert. I grew up in a family that hunted, camped, and worked outdoors as an assumed part of life, so I have some learned ability but no training or purposeful practice. The terrain would be the hilly forests of Pennsylvania, whether it be the Susquehanna valley or Kinzua country, or basically wherever I go in the woods. The use would be really whatever I need a tool to do while in the woods that I would not use my forest axe or saw for. I would not be battoning, unless really in a bind, and would generally use my axe for chopping and saw for sawing. However, there are times when I only carry a sheath knife, such as hunting and orienteering, and I have gotten rather out of place. So, I do want something reliable enough to use overnight.

I had a spyderco caly 3.5 and it was great. Sadly, I lost it but now have a spyderco native. Although I really like the native as a folder, and it is my edc, it does not have liners and has a bit short of a blade. That's why I'm looking for a new fixed blade. As of now I'm using an old russian recurve knife, of unknown steel, my dad brought me. However, the blade shape is not very convenient, the sheath is hard to use and I check to make sure I still have it every few minutes, and the steel has to be sharpened pretty much every time I take it out.

Thanks for the info on leaf shaped blades, I've always liked them for folders but didn't know for fixed.

Those do look like great knives, and I know you get what you pay for, they are just a bit out of my budget.

I was looking at some d2 knives, and it sounds like a2 would be a far better choice. Thanks for that comparison. All of your posts have been helpful.

I am glad that I have been of assistance. D2 is an interesting steel. I like it. It is very wear resistant but not as tough as A2 or O1. The thing about D2 is that is very sensitive to heat treatment. So far, I have used a few knives made out of D2 for cutting applications and they have shown very good edge retention but, I would rather refrain from depending on a D2 blade as my sole knife for the outdoors. Based on what you have written thus far, my opinion is to go with a Bark River Trail Buddy. Why do I propose this knife? It has a blade which is 4.25" long and 0.187" thick and 1 1/8 wide, perfect for pretty much anything you may need it for. It is made out of A2 tool steel and comes with a really razor sharp convex-profiled blade. It is as solid as a knife can be. The handle fits the hand like a glove - good even for large size (I know from personal experience). It comes in an excellent leather sheath as well and it's covered by a lifetime warranty. It can be found for a price within your budget.

 

[22-rimfire]

The Bark River Trail Buddy is a good recommendation.

 

[deth1313]

While a little above your price range, I have narrowed my 'perfect' knife down to two knives. After trying knives from many different companies such as Cold Steel, Esee, Becker, Bark River amongst others, some bought, some borrowed, I ended up with the Swamp Rat Ratmandu and a Survive GSO 5.1. Both have incredibly comfortable grips, in several positions; both employ excellent steels, SR101 and CPM 3V, respectively. The RMD is 3/16 and the 5.1 is 1/4 in thickness. You really can't go wrong with either knife!

 

[Andros]

While a little above your price range, I have narrowed my 'perfect' knife down to two knives. After trying knives from many different companies such as Cold Steel, Esee, Becker, Bark River amongst others, some bought, some borrowed, I ended up with the Swamp Rat Ratmandu and a Survive GSO 5.1. Both have incredibly comfortable grips, in several positions; both employ excellent steels, SR101 and CPM 3V, respectively. The RMD is 3/16 and the 5.1 is 1/4 in thickness. You really can't go wrong with either knife!

As mentioned in other posts of this thread it all has to do with the intended use. Thicker stocks are good when some prying is to be expected but thinner stocks are better slicers. Having spent some time around camp kitchens this has been my experience as well.

 

[sutured]

D2 is good steel. Bob Dozier is the king of D2. He makes some fine knives but they are mostly above your price range, although many are not a lot above. Basically $200 > $250 is pretty common pricing. My EDC fixed blade is a small Dozier blade which I love.

There's no right or wrong here, but my one and only D2 knife is a Dozier, and I simply do not like the steel. "Takes a lousy edge and holds it forever..." seems to sum it up.

I can get a good edge on it, but it's a lot of work and it's not something I'd like to do in the field. I MUCH prefer simple high-carbon steels for the outdoors unless I'm around salt water. Yes, they dull more quickly, but they also sharpen up to a razors edge MUCH easier than D2 does. I really demand that razor edge and I'd much rather have a blade that I can keep razor sharp with some maintenance than a blade that holds a less-than-razor edge for a long time. For the same reason I'm not at all fond of the wunder steels...CPM3 and CPM4.

To each their own.

 

[Andros]

There's no right or wrong here, but my one and only D2 knife is a Dozier, and I simply do not like the steel. "Takes a lousy edge and holds it forever..." seems to sum it up.

I can get a good edge on it, but it's a lot of work and it's not something I'd like to do in the field. I MUCH prefer simple high-carbon steels for the outdoors unless I'm around salt water. Yes, they dull more quickly, but they also sharpen up to a razors edge MUCH easier than D2 does. I really demand that razor edge and I'd much rather have a blade that I can keep razor sharp with some maintenance than a blade that holds a less-than-razor edge for a long time. For the same reason I'm not at all fond of the wunder steels...CPM3 and CPM4.

To each their own.

I agree.