Outright, blatant copies, and the strong opinions regarding them.

[Comeuppance]

People around here seem to get very heated when discussing imitations of high-end knives.
Why?

It seems to be stated quite often that it is theft. It's design theft, certainly, but do they really detract from the market those knives are aimed at? Surely, someone in the market for a $800 Chris Reeve knife is not going to buy a knockoff of dubious quality instead. Are the producers of high-end knives actually losing money over this? If so: is that documented fact or is it speculation?

Would it still be an issue if they didn't have the names attached? For example, if the fake CRKs and Hinderers had the actual manufacturer's names - or is the overall design of the knife still a large enough factor?

Note that I am not supporting or defending anything.
Let's discuss this like adults, not like zealots or fanboys.

 

[celtic11]

Would someone in the market for an $800 CRK buy a knockoff instead probably not.

Does Chris Reeves still deserve to get paid for all those knockoffs that he designed and someone else is profiting off of? Absolutely.

Just because the knives shown in that video might not necessarily steal buyers from Rick Hinderer doesn't mean they should be able to just use his design to turn a profit.

 

[cncpro11]

Would someone in the market for an $800 CRK buy a knockoff instead probably not.

Does Chris Reeves still deserve to get paid for all those knockoffs that he designed and someone else is profiting off of? Absolutely.

Just because the knives shown in that video might not necessarily steal buyers from Rick Hinderer doesn't mean they should be able to just use his design to turn a profit.

Not to mention his NAME!

 

[lillging]

Would someone in the market for an $800 CRK buy a knockoff instead probably not.

Does Chris Reeves still deserve to get paid for all those knockoffs that he designed and someone else is profiting off of? Absolutely.

Just because the knives shown in that video might not necessarily steal buyers from Rick Hinderer doesn't mean they should be able to just use his design to turn a profit.

I agree celtic. While i dont think it will cause Rick to go out of business( because $50 knives arnt his market) i do think there is a middle ground where people recieve the respect and are paid for their designs. I dont know what that middle ground is but i have faith as a community we can find one without having to compromise our morals.

 

[RemyKaze]

Use the search function, you'll see this has been discussed many, many times. If you really want to talk about it, revive an old thread rather than pointlessly starting a new one.

As for my answer....I don't care about knockoffs. I buy what I like, and what I like is the real thing. As for legality...it used to be that a master smith or bladesmith couldn't be copied. Nowadays the more expensive production knives are being copied because hey, they aren't customs and people are able to copy them. I don't support thievery, but I'm not going to pay ridiculous prices for steel that I can get chaper, nor am I going to pay those prices for something that can actually be counterfeited. Meaning if someone can copy it that well, it really isn't all that special.

 

[Comeuppance]

I agree celtic. While i dont think it will cause Rick to go out of business( because $50 knives arnt his market) i do think there is a middle ground where people recieve the respect and are paid for their designs. I dont know what that middle ground is but i have faith as a community we can find one without having to compromise our morals.

One could easily assert that the mere existence of the knockoffs says quite a bit about the respect most people have for the brands. It is shady that they use the names and signature logos, but is that really the issue? Like you said, people familiar with the names of the manufacturers are extremely unlikely to think one of the knockoffs is the genuine article.

 

[lillging]

One could easily assert that the mere existence of the knockoffs says quite a bit about the respect most people have for the brands. It is shady that they use the names and signature logos, but is that really the issue? Like you said, people familiar with the names of the manufacturers are extremely unlikely to think one of the knockoffs is the genuine article.

Im not sure i understand what you are trying to say, can you expand on it?

 

[Comeuppance]

... if someone can copy it that well, it really isn't all that special.

See, that's something I've considered. If people are concerned that a $50 knockoff of a $800 knife poses a real threat, is the $800 knife bringing all that much to the table?

 

[lillging]

Remy "Use the search function, you'll see this has been discussed many, many times. If you really want to talk about it, revive an old thread rather than pointlessly starting a new one."

If this is pointless, why are you taking part?

 

[Thomas Linton]

As for legality, using someone else's brand on your fake is a felony. Law enforcement rarely gets its hands on the fakers because they are in China, an ongoing criminal conspiracy of a country when it comes to trademark laws. But numerous U.S. vendors of fake goods have become guests of federal prisons, including some who were doing business in Cleveland,.

Again, the purpose of the laws are to protect customers from being scammed. "Special" has nothing to do with the issue. A mark is supposed to be unique to the holder, not shared by every scam artist out of reach of law and order.

 

[Comeuppance]

Im not sure i understand what you are trying to say, can you expand on it?

Well, certainly, asking for or expecting respect to the original manufacturer from someone who is clearly trying to imitate the item is a silly thing to do - however, that such a market exists show the kind of respect people have for the brand, and the weight those names have. In no way does this justify the act of forgery, but it's an interesting aspect to the phenomenon. I mean, you don't see much in the way of imitation Gerber or Cold Steel products.

 

[RemyKaze]

Remy "Use the search function, you'll see this has been discussed many, many times. If you really want to talk about it, revive an old thread rather than pointlessly starting a new one."

If this is pointless, why are you taking part?

Because I've actually never thrown my input into any of those discussions, and it's already on the table, so why not?

 

[Comeuppance]

A mark is supposed to be unique to the holder, not shared by every scam artist out of reach of law and order.

I can only agree strongly. I do wish that these imitators would go the somewhat-more-honorable route and at least use their own brand names.

What's interesting to me is that I imagine pride of ownership is a major driving force for many people who enjoy knives in the $500+ range - Thus, what is the market for the imitations? People who enjoy the form of the knives? Surely, there are more reputable companies with better build quality in that price range. Instead of spending $100 on a fake Hinderer, one could get a high-quality Spyderco or Kershaw knife and have a warranty to back the build quality.

 

[lillging]

I can only agree strongly. I do wish that these imitators would go the somewhat-more-honorable route and at least use their own brand names.

What's interesting to me is that I imagine pride of ownership is a major driving force for many people who enjoy knives in the $500+ range - Thus, what is the market for the imitations? People who enjoy the form of the knives? Surely, there are more reputable companies with better build quality in that price range. Instead of spending $100 on a fake Hinderer, one could get a high-quality Spyderco or Kershaw knife and have a warranty to back the build quality.

So if you are correct and pride of ownership is a large motivation to buy expensive knives, than arn't people more proud of the name instead of the knife itself? Im proud that i own my endura because i enjoy using the knife not the name.

I honestly don't know if that makes any sense so if it doesn't, please disregard

 

[Dorito Monk]

Note that I am not supporting or defending anything.
Let's discuss this like adults, not like zealots or fanboys.

You are probably asking far too much of this forum, right there, I'm not gonna lie..

I give it a page and a half before the zealots and fanboys take over, but best of luck to you.

 

[lillging]

You are probably asking far too much of this forum, right there, I'm not gonna lie..

I give it a page and a half before the zealots and fanboys take over, but best of luck to you.

Ill give it 3 pages before they invade.

 

[Comeuppance]

So if you are correct and pride of ownership is a large motivation to buy expensive knives, than arn't people more proud of the name instead of the knife itself? Im proud that i own my endura because i enjoy using the knife not the name.

I honestly don't know if that makes any sense so if it doesn't, please disregard

I think the price point makes a huge difference. Nobody is going to be proud to own a cheap Casio watch, but they are much more likely to be proud of owning a Rolex - and, perhaps, more likely to be upset by fake Rolex manufacturers.

 

[Comeuppance]

You are probably asking far too much of this forum, right there, I'm not gonna lie..

I give it a page and a half before the zealots and fanboys take over, but best of luck to you.

Right? I lost a lot of respect for this community after I read about five posts into the "Nutnfancy" topic. Good lord. It's not so much a discussion as it is a lynching.

 

[RobertK]

edit: never mind. I'm too old to be goaded into arguing on the int3rwebs.

 

[cncpro11]

Right? I lost a lot of respect for this community after I read about five posts into the "Nutnfancy" topic. Good lord. It's not so much a discussion as it is a lynching.

Some knucklehead posts a YT video blatantly advocating and supporting theft, and it is this community you have no respect for?
If thats your position than the feeling is mutual.
When Esav closed your thread, he posted a copy of the rules directly related to your thread.
The first five posts were supporting forum rules as well as honor and integrity, so if you've lost respect for the members and the rules of this forum, then perhaps you are in the wrong place and should log out and not come back.