Overpriced 440C blades?

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Jack_Burton

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I dunno, maybe I'm missing something but, have you guys noticed many of the (imo) WILDLY overpriced blades made from 440C that were advertised at SHOT this year?

Especially from Böker. As much as I would love to have an A/F Dagger, I just don't think I can justify paying 200+ dollars for a nicer model that by all rights should at least be made from some better steel for those kinds of prices, and I've even seen nutnfancy do a review on one of the newer models of their A/F where it wasn't even sharp!

And this knife cost like 300 dollars! (and no, that's not MSRP, which is even higher, the 300 is the street price)

I dunno, I just don't see how 440C is worth that much, I don't care of it has the best heat treat on the planet, it's NOT the 90s anymore.

Anyways, sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, I just wanted to address this. :(
 
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I grew up beside that steel .I do not understand why you underestimate that steel ? SS Bearing even today are made of it , does that mean that they are no good anymore? How can you value knife based on used steel ? There was plenty knife made in 1080 which cost double ???
 
Natlek said:
I grew up beside that steel .I do not understand why you underestimate that steel ? SS Bearing even today are made of it , does that mean that they are no good anymore? How can you value knife based on used steel ? There was plenty knife made in 1080 which cost double ???
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I didn't say the steel was no good, it's a fine steel. What I'm saying is, I don't understand how some of these companies justify exorbitantly high prices for it when it's not exactly rare anymore.

If I'm expected to pay 2-300 dollars for a non-custom, mass-produced dagger please explain to me where all that extra dough is going because it surely can't be on the cost of the steel. As I said, it's not the 90s anymore and as good as 440C may be, the simple truth is that there are knives being made w/ better steels out there today for that same amount of money or less.
 
Jack_Burton said:
Especially from Böker. As much as I would love to have an A/F Dagger, I just don't think I can justify paying 200+ dollars for a nicer model that by all rights should at least be made from some better steel for those kinds of prices, and I've seen nutnfancy do a review on one of the newer models of their A/F where it wasn't even sharp!



I dunno, I just don't see how 440C is worth that much, I don't care of it has the best heat treat on the planet, it's NOT the 90s anymore.

:(
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No dagger comes sharp from the maker (including the Cold Steel peacekeepers and peacemakers). Most Boker knives are especially dull, no matter what they are.

440C is harder to work with, and I'll gladly pay a premium for 440C to avoid anything else, other than maybe 420HC or Aus-6-8. I will also gladly pay to avoid anything CPM (well because I will simply not purchase any CPM at all, for any reason). 440C is heinous to sharpen, even on diamond hones (hence my recent tentative leaning to 420HC), and some 440C is astoundingly bad when improperly treated.

For a bit of education on 440C: http://jayfisher.com/440C_Love_Hate.htm#440C_A_Love/Hate_Affair

Yes it's not the 90s anymore: Things have gotten way worse. Not to mention Moras are Survival Knives now: Brrr!

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
No dagger comes sharp from the maker (including the Cold Steel peacekeepers and peacemakers). Most Boker knives are especially dull, no matter what they are.

440C is harder to work with, and I'll gladly pay a premium for 440C to avoid anything else, other than maybe 420HC or Aus-6-8. I will also gladly pay to avoid anything CPM (well because I will simply not purchase any CPM at all, for any reason). 440C is heinous to sharpen, even on diamond hones (hence my recent tentative leaning to 420HC), and some 440C is astoundingly bad when improperly treated.

For a bit of education on 440C: http://jayfisher.com/440C_Love_Hate.htm#440C_A_Love/Hate_Affair

Yes it's not the 90s anymore: Things have gotten way worse. Not to mention Moras are Survival Knives now: Brrr!

Gaston
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Are your posts based upon personal use and experience, or are you just regurgitating something of someone else's that you read on the internet? Some of your posts are kind of far-fetched to be honest...
 
Jack_Burton said:
I didn't say the steel was no good, it's a fine steel. What I'm saying is, I don't understand how some of these companies justify exorbitantly high prices for it when it's not exactly rare anymore.

If I'm expected to pay 2-300 dollars for a non-custom, mass-produced dagger please explain to me where all that extra dough is going because it surely can't be on the cost of the steel. As I said, it's not the 90s anymore and as good as 440C may be, the simple truth is that there are knives being made w/ better steels out there today for that same amount of money or less.
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440C was never rare. It was just new.

And you are not "expected" to buy your new dagger. If you dont want to spend that money, don't. It's not like a dagger is groceries.

Boker has priced their knives at a point where they will sell. Hence, they are not overpriced.
 
Gaston444 said:
440C is harder to work with, and I'll gladly pay a premium for 440C to avoid anything else, other than maybe 420HC or Aus-6-8. I will also gladly pay to avoid anything CPM (well because I will simply not purchase any CPM at all, for any reason). 440C is heinous to sharpen, even on diamond hones (hence my recent tentative leaning to 420HC), and some 440C is astoundingly bad when improperly treated.
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What?

I love sharpening 440C, it's one of the easiest steels to bring to critical sharpness, and it resists corrosion and holds an edge well enough for pocket knife use.

I recently sharpened my Spyderco Cat and it is currently so sharp that your corneas will be damaged if you look directly at it; getting it to a ludicrous level of sharpness required thirty seconds are less.

How is 440C heinous to sharpen, exactly?
 
I agree with OP.

Here's my defense: Becker 1095cv half the price.

Way better to sharpen than any 440c in existence, and that goes double for performance during hard use. I suppose you could make an argument if you lived on the beach, or if your knife is used to slice open envelopes all day while sitting at a desk.

Why would anyone buy a Boker? Go waste your money on new Gerbers, then. You want to buy a dagger for looks you shoulda got in line for the Force Multiplier! :D

Disclaimer: The proverbial you
 
440C a bear to sharpen? I don’t envy those sharpening skills, Gaston

OP, I’m with you, man. 440C is a fine steel, and the Model T Ford was a fine car, but times have changed, and we can get way more carbides and way more horses for the price today

Edit: Boker is an older company and their german line kind of went in a parallel direction to Gerber: they’re leaning way too hard on their brand name power and think they don’t need to modernize. The only thing that they’re doing right today is their Plus lineup with the high value flipper/D2 blades like the Hitman, Caracal, etc
 
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440C is a perfectly suitable steel for most applications, honestly. I have a Stedemon ZKC D01 that I have put a nice mirror edge on, and it is a wonder to cut with and holds the edge well. That said, I only spent $40 on it. I probably would have held off if it was a Boker product, because I doubt I would have been able to pick it up for less than $80.

If you highly value blade steel - and there’s nothing wrong with that - then Boker is probably not right for you. Very few of their models approach Spyderco or ZT’s materials-to-price ratio, and you will end up spending close to $100 for a Boker with a steel as underwhelming as D2 or VG-10 when you could pick up a Spyderco with 110V or S35VN for a similar price. Additionally, with the recent explosion of Chinese manufacturers putting out very nice products at attractive prices, you can get some very nice 440C, 12C27, VG-10, and S35VN knives without breaking the bank. Kizer’s Vanguard series has some of the best deals on quality VG-10 knives, Stedemon ZKC will slap some ceramic bearings on a 440C knife and sell it for $50-60, BesTech has rolled out some impressively-made D2 knives, etc.

Boker’s real claim to fame is their wide selection of uniquely-designed knives. You just can’t get some of those knives elsewhere, and you pay a premium to own them. Much like CRKT, the primary gripe people have with Boker+ knives is that the materials and quality doesn’t seem to line up very well with the price - which is only really frustrating because some of the models they produce are really interesting.
 
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I had not seen the Jay Fisher page on 440C. Not being a metallurgist myself, does anyone know what the BF consensus is on Fisher's opinion? Is there a consensus?
 
Comeuppance said:
Boker’s real claim to fame is their wide selection of uniquely-designed knives. You just can’t get some of those knives elsewhere, and you pay a premium to own them. Much like CRKT, the primary gripe people have with Boker+ knives is that the price and quality doesn’t seem to line up very well with the price - which is only really frustrating because some of the models they produce are really interesting.
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There are so many Boker designs, especially some of the custom collaborations, where I said... if only it wasn't Boker.

Price way out of line with materials, fit, and finish.
 
Personally, I don't place as great a value on the steel itself as I do design, workmanship, and quality, which includes reputation for heat treatment. That's what I feel like I am paying for when I buy a knife.

I'd rather have a great design in 440C (or VG10) with excellent fit, finish and overall durability than some super steel where one or more of those criteria (design, fit, finish, quality workmanship, overall durability) were lacking.

For me, some super steels can actually be a liability if they are difficult for me to sharpen and maintain without having to make major changes to the tools and process I use for that purpose.
 
I just can't stand when a person preaches their experience as the gospel and that there's no other way. Millions of knives in millions of scenarios cutting a million different things; there can't be ONE gospel to suit all of the knives and scenarios etc.
 
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