Paddling into 2013

[Bigfattyt]

(I gave up on the long response. I had it copied, but it never let me paste it and post successfully).


The XL15 by Mohawk is my canoe. I got it last year. I do wish it was a faster canoe, and I would like something longer and better tracking for the lake.

It has 3 inches of rocker fore and aft, so it turns fast. It works fine for this little waterway (with all it's bends and twists).

I do wish it had better speed, though much of that may be my fault. I weigh 350+ pounds, so it is tail heavy, and dragging a lot of weight with me in the back and a smaller person in the front. I ordered it with a removable center seat for my boys and they shipped it with a thwart in the wrong spot so I can't reverse paddle it solo. Sitting in the hanging center seat and trying to paddle is no good. The hanging bars get in the way and it just feel like paddling a spinning top. It is wide in the center. I am thinking about moving one of the thwarts and trying reverse paddle with ballast in the front.

We had to paddle constantly to keep up with the lighter paddlers in canoes with much sharper entrance lines!

For this specific waterway, with no white water, but a whole lot of sharp bends it does adequately.

I am going to try it on a much livelier waterway called the Frenchman. It is faster, and with some little 2 to 3 foot drops.

 

[Codger_64]

I think you are right, the Mohawk XL-15 will feel much more at home on faster moving water. It was designed as a tandem whitewater canoe. For several years, I've soloed a 16' 9" Old Town Guide, relatively flat bottomed with a keel and no rocker and a wide center beam. It isn't all that maneuverable but tracks like it is on rails. It will carry a lot of weight and glides well. As you've seen, the recently acquired Bell, though only a bit shorter at 15'6", has rocker (1.5 x 2.5), a slightly arched cross section, no keel and sharp entry line. The difference in how they handle is like day and night. And the 119K solo is much different still, at home on small slow creeks, kayak sized but with a deep hull. Each design has it's intended best use and I am yet to paddle one that can do it all well.

Perhaps you might find a flatwater "tripper" design more appropriate for this particular float as you described. And by keeping a watch on several different second hand sources (eBay, Craigslist, Yakaz, etc.) acquire one in servicable condition for not a lot of investment. Paddlesports stores also sell blems and demos at a steep discount. I honestly have less invested in my three lightly used canoes than any of them would have cost new. Though a non-canoe person would question why I would need or want three canoes. And be looking for a fourth.

As for wearing or not wearing PFDs, my thinking has and is evolving. I know that laws vary widely from state to state on what is required. Most jurisdictions simply require them to be in the canoe, one for each occupant. In this and several surrounding states, only children under a certain age are required to wear them anytime the canoe is underway. And having been at this for fifty or more years, I can understand why people don't like wearing them and either use them as seat cushions or just throw them loose in the floor. They can be hot, restrict movement and be uncomfortable, chafeing and riding up. This is particularly true of the antique design "horse collar" PFDs most liveries hand out to their renters. But is is also true of most low end flat panel PFDs found in box stores and sold to recreational boaters and fishermen. Thankfully, PFD design and materials are evolving. More comfortable, better engineered PFDs are coming on the market, though at a cost. Personally, I have health issues and for the first time this year, have started wearing mine every time I am on the water. Not only do I need it when I am helping others who are likely to upset my canoe, but I need it should I suddenly find myself unconcious in the water. Something most people in good health do not have to concern themselves with except when running fast, boney waters. For me, the alternative is to quit canoeing. Finding a canoeing partner every time I go is not going to happen. None of my friends are interested and both of my grown children have moved out of State.

I am still looking at upgrading my old flat panel PFD. I will likely settle on a new one soon, though I am still reviewing what is offered and weighing price, features and utility. The temptation, naturally, is to buy one that far exceeds my needs based on the "looks cool" factor.

 

[ralphtt]

I am still looking at upgrading my old flat panel PFD. I will likely settle on a new one soon, though I am still reviewing what is offered and weighing price, features and utility. The temptation, naturally, is to buy one that far exceeds my needs based on the "looks cool" factor.

Have you considered the relatively new PFD that inflates when it gets wet?

I used one in my bass boat for a while and thankfully never got it wet . . . so I can't document the fact that it would work . . . ?

But, they're convenient, light-weight and fairly comfortable. Just always wondered if they would do the job if/when needed.

 

[Codger_64]

The inflating vests have become popular with bass fishermen in tourneys. And with offshore commericial fishermen and sailboat racers. I'm just not sold on the concept myself. I'm looking at some of the major watersports/kayak vests like Kokotat, IR, Astral, Stolquist, etc. with ventilation, higher floatation and priced in the $100-175 range. They are better suited to seated use than what I currently have. And have 16-24 pounds of floatation. And the cool factor. You have to look good to feel good, you know?

 

[Bigfattyt]

My PDF is a fishing one, with 4 pockets, and mesh top. It is not terribly obtrusive, but not very high quality. I can attest that it will keep me afloat when the canoe overturns.

I need a higher quality one, as mine is very cheap, with semi rigid foam inserts.


The boys were using flat bottomed canoes, with the exception of one. The Other leader's boat is a Dagger, with rocker and shallow arch. I would trade the speed for maneuverability. I was able to more than keep up for two days. Finished the trip in the lead position. But my self and the other leader in the front are strong paddlers, and we definitely paddled more and harder than the light boys in their longer canoes! We also hit the banks a whole lot less! One thing I did not notice the boys doing was leaning into the turns to get the canoe to track in the direction they wanted to turn easier.

I did notice the other leader in his canoe (which has rocker) doing this, and we certainly were. I have done the trip in the Scout canoes, and the seats are not as comfortable (narrow molded plastic, placed where they fit, not where they should be). They don't handle very nimbly either.



I would love to purchase a few more boats to add to the stable. A long kevlar Wenona for flat water would be lovely, but too expensive right now. I may have to keep my eyes open for any deals in my area for a more efficient flat water and slow moving water boat.

 

[Codger_64]

17ft Northwoods Canoe $600 in Spokane on CL.



Clipper 'Maverick' 16'4" fiberglass $700 in Spokane on CL.


And it matches your eyes... err... I mean your other canoe!

 

[Bigfattyt]

There is also a Clipper Tripper 18.5 for sale in Olympia for $995. It is Kevlar, white gel coat.

10 years old, but the pics look very nice. Apparently used 5 times on a lengthy Canadian water adventure called Bowron River Circuit.

It has reinforcing plates fore and aft. At the price he has it listed, I would have to sell off some knives, and it likely would not still be there when I got that accomplished. I am also not sure about the tractor seats, or the ability to fit my keister in the rear seat. It would be very nice to have a sliding front seat to try and get the trim better.












Any one know how well Kevlar ages if cared for. The seller says it was racked inside the garage for 10 years, outside the long trips 5 times.

 

[Codger_64]

Mewolf1 (Kent) can tell you better than I, but I assume that like fiberglass, if it isn't abraded and exposed to a lot of UV by storing outside in the sun, it hardly "ages" at all. In fact, if I understand correctly, it would be the epoxy which would be affected by UV. And even that wouldn't be as bad as PVC or even Royalex. My Bell, shown previously, is fifteen years old, stored inside and the only wear is abrasions to the gelcoat and two minor repaired cracks from impacts. The two above show very little use as far as I can see. At least not like my canoes get used. I've never tried the seats like that but I tend to replace the rotomolded buckets on mine with ash and cane benches.

 

[mewolf1]

It's kinda like an old truck found on a farm, "Barn fresh". The kev would be good as new.
FWIW, Tractor seats suck. That's just my opinion. I don't find them versatile enough i.e. sitting/kneeling.
My butt gets itchy too, especially if it's a bit damp whilst paddlin. Cane is lighter too.

 

[Codger_64]

Not fair!

I was "innocently" cruising Craigslist and this popped up at a great price...

A Mad River Malecite with all wood trim at a too-cheap price.

 

[taldesta]

Well, of course I trust in the innocently cruising dilemma ... In the meantime I trust that you and Jake are enjoying the Bell, this summer that is ours to inhale and live ...

Got to say that the felled maple on the river here has prevented me from canoeing, securing the dock, from swimming, from enjoying the river as I usually do ...

Work and other spring property demands leave no time to date ... but I am going to tackle the maple and docking problems within a few days.

In the meantime, just today I had a visitor in my yard from the river. Holy cow ... if she could have clawed her way up the 100 ft bank, surely I can get my stuff done.

 

[Codger_64]

I like turtles!

Well I thankfully overcame the urge to take on another canoe right now and took some friend's sage advice instead. I had to make an out of State trip today to visit relatives and a grave, But I did stop by an outdoor (watersport/hiking) store on the way and picked up that new PFD that I have been telling myself all winter and spring that I needed to replace my old box store flat panel PFD.

I had already convinced myself that the color needed to be brighter than my old tan one for safety reasons. And I wanted a modern designed sculpted panel vest with a few do-dad features, not to mention adjustable. This is what I settled on to try. If it doesn't satisfy my expectations, I'll keep it and use it as a loaner to my occasional passengers and guests.

A 2012 design Astral Bouyancy Ronny with MSRP of $90. At checkout I was surprised to get a 8.99 discount, so it was basicly $90 with tax. It has a flat back panel and multi-layer sculpted front and side panels. Adjustable shoulder straps and side straps. As you can see, it uses a self locking YKK zipper closure. As seen above, it has a hypolon tab at the bottom edge to assist in zipping. It has the one mesh cargo pocket with fastex buckle. The mesh does stretch so it could hold the equivilant of two cans of Coke, though I envision other uses like my camera in a waterproof case and maybe a pealess whistle. One attractive feature, to me, is the almost full length one inch wide mesh vent along the spine. That should make it a bit cooler than my current full panel vest. Of course it has the lash tab for a river knife. I'll have to get one of those or adapt one of my current knives. I have several that would work, though they are all Schrade Lightweight folers (like the Gerber LST or Bucklite).

The search for a local source of a throwbag continues though. That was one of my "gets" that they didn't have. I suppose that I am just lucky they had a decent variety of brands, colors and sizes of PFDs. I did pick up a hypolon boat road flag though. My last one flew off on the road a while back. Faulty attachment on my part. I promise to do better this time.

Jake and I have been landlubbers the past few weeks unfortunately. Today was my first day off in weeks. It is hot and everyone wants to swim, and everyone has problems with their pools. That is good and bad. I hate not having a day off, but the extra work paid for two new tires on my truck and the PFD. Tomorrow, barring storms, off to the river we will go!

 

[taldesta]

Good that your search for a comfortable, well designed PFD is met ... looks to have a good balance of the features you were looking for. Do-dad features and all. You mention a river knife. Are these like dive knives? I haven't even thought of mine for years. Got it along with my gear when I got my PADI certification ... long, long time ago.

The snapping turtle was gone the next morning. She dug a lot of holes in the laneway (no eggs) and knocked over my garden fence.

My plans to tackle the fallen maple changed. I reconnoitered instead! Just looking at it from the river was sufficiently overwhelming. At least I did get the dock in giving a convenient tie-up for the canoe.

From upstream

From downstream

Best of all, from under the maple

At least enjoying the river is on track now and I have the summer to work on the problem Actually, a job like limbing the maple might be better handled from the winter ice. There, procrastination is so easy!

That's my turtle and canoe update.

 

[Codger_64]

Nice update Susan! It appears to me that the kids are less concerned with the new angle the Maple has taken. And are glad to see the dock repositioned.

As I posted in the "pimp yo new gear" thread, I recently picked up a new old canoe, a 1987 Blue Hole Sunburst II. I spent last Sunday stripping out the old seats, outfitting and remanents of foam and glue from it's previous lives. To my surprise, none of the various adhesives used over the years had penetrated the inner layer of Royalex and apparently, none of the owners deeply scuffed the surface to get a mechanical bond. A lot of work with various lubricants, scouring pads and a 3M abrasive wheel on my cordless drill produced a clean, nearly pristine inner hull.

The latest previous owner had "installed" two seats in this whitewater solo canoe and, while no bailing wire of duct tape were used, they were a pitiful sight. And now part of the local landfill. I have plans to install a new solo seat soon, but haven't 100% decided which one. I am leaning toward an ash framed nylon webbed seat on aluminum drops. The major overhang of the heavy extruded aluminum gunnels is on the outside precluding using the more common ash drops that bolt through the gunnel tops. These will have to bolt through the sides of the gunnels as did the original seat which used bent tubular seat frames.

The bag cage attachment eyes were toast as well and were removed. Newer hardware in stainless or aluminum is in order.

All in all, other than the outfitting, it was in better shape than expected for a 26 year old whitewater canoe.

 

[Codger_64]

Oh, I forgot your question about river knives.

Here is the NRS Pilot:

And the Stohlquist Squeeze Lock:

A bit different from the dive knives I am used to seeing, but they do share some features. Most are at least partially serrated as a prime use is cutting rope in entanglements. Most modern river runner PFDs have a lash point for a knife.

 

[taldesta]

Thanks for this info. These knives are not something I was aware of but, yes, the tool that suits the application. And my learning curve just doesn't seem to quit!

Great work on the canoe!

 

[taldesta]

The strainers caught by the fallen maple needed to be freed before I could gauge whether I could tow the dock over to its usual tie up where the swimming is best.

Before:

After:

In between!

Tal, a little annoyed at being left behind, took two accidental (!?) headers off the tree above where I was working and also fell (accidentally !?) off the
river bank once. I plucked her out of the drink and put her ashore two times and on the third pulled her into the canoe so we could both be soaking wet.

As the larger pieces are cut away, swung out and set adrift, the tangle gets down and dirty with lots of water striders, larger spiders and many unrecognizable (to me) crawlers that looked like slimy bark with legs. Tal and I were no longer alone in the canoe.

Breaking through:

All clear:

Next tackle will be to attempt to tow the dock ... it is on two floats. If it does not clear the submerged tree trunk, that's ok. I will have to tow it 'over the tree top'. All the debris is now cleared so this is possible.

/end canoe update

 

[Codger_64]

Quite a project you undertook! I bet you were glad to have a helper aboard to corral the bugs. And that you both kept from falling into the water while sawing and dragging logs. Hopefully they won't form another inconvenient log jam downstream of you.

My project has been stalled since Friday when I finally ordered the outfitting (and the order didn't go through until today when I called them). But I had to work Saturday, so no river trips anyway. I plan to get to the river this coming Saturday though, rain or shine. Though I will likely be in the Bell (which means Jake stays home) and not in the Sunburst. I don't expect the outfitting to arrive before the middle of next week now instead of tomorrow as I had planned. But heck, I've had the canoe since early July and only gotten it wet so far by washing it, so no big rush. And it gives me more time to see how others have done it before me. I've already changed a few of the planned details of the bag cages and cargo tiedowns based on what I have found both here in North America and in Europe. Small things to be sure, but some well thought out and proven details and techniques by others.

 

[mewolf1]

I finally got new racks. Yakima, OUCH, I forgot how much they think of themselves. It does however, put me a lot closer to more paddlin.:thumbup:

I have to go to Ely to retrieve my son and his boat. He wants to take his Pop to a lake where he is getting 9-10" Bluegill and 20" Browns. Life is good.

 

[Codger_64]

I've been looking at racks, Kent, but there is no way I can buy a new Yakima or Thule for my Impala. Well I could if I quit buying and customizing canoes. And with gas so high, I can't realisticly use my service truck to pull the canoe trailer very far or even very often. So for now, foam blocks on the roof it is. I am looking at a Curt receiver trailer hitch to fit the Impala though. Still cheaper than a nice roof rack.

9-10" bluegill? Oh my!