Pakistan Damascus, You Guys Are Wrong!

I can't believe I'm doing this.. Here's my Fox and Hound, not bad after being a brush knife for years:

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(By the way, the hammer is named "Bell." Yes, I painted it blue. I use it to fumble with while I watch TV. No, I don't use it for anything else)
 
OK. You asked. Not sure why, as the possibility exists that you knife (or knives, I guess) are OK:

Here is a thread started by a champion of Pakistani damascus where a good many makers of knives who have personally tried out Pakistani damascus, found it to be of poor quality, allow for the possibility of improvement over time, ask for examples to test, and get blown off. Note that the champion of Pakistani damascus allows that 7 of ten makers turn out junk:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums...-PAKISTANI-DAMASCUS-KNIVES-ARE-Underestimated

Here is a comment by a maker who tried out damascus blade blanks from AE in Pakistan:

Well, the AE blanks I just took a punt on in the '2for 1' offer placed here recently have unfortunatly left me thinking never again, it was supposed to be a low cost first time experiment in Damascus that has ended up proving more costly in time than if I'd bought something else I'm now in the process of re-making the knife in 01 because despite hardening up a treat in the H&T and 'feeling' very good across the stones and initially taking a very good edge it just wont keep it, after a play cutting some feather sticks in fairly soft poplar the edge dulled in no time and did the same thing 3 times after being honed back to a razor edge implying a mix of good and not good steels as mentioned above.

So lesson learnt here and until people here start extolling the virtues of the new improved steel from them I personally will keep well away.
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Another Brit:

It isn't ALL bad. In a way that's more troublesome than if it was If it was ALL poor quality then it would be easy to avoid, but as with many things, some is good, some is very good, but unfortunately the vast majority of it seems to be pretty poor.

The main problems seem to lie in the fact that many of the steels these guys are using to produce good pattern are chosen because of two factors ....they are cheaply available, and they make good pattern. This does not necessarily mean that they are good blade steel.

Heat treat can be very hit-and-miss with blades from these regions too, so even if the steel IS good for blades you can't guarantee that it's been heat treated well enough to ensure the consistency of quality that we have become used to.

Another problem that I have seen in these blades is the thickness of the edges. Many that I have seen have been VERY thick immediately behind the edge, making the blade a poor cutter even if the edge is sharp. Whilst it uses more steel to make a thick blade, it's actually so much easier to do than making a blade with good geometry that many are left this way. They look great in a photo ... but you suddenly realise the problem when you come to look at one 'in the flesh'.

I have travelled through the NWFP of Pakistan and have seen the craftsmen of the region at work. I have nothing but the greatest respect for their skills, (and thanks for their hospitality and friendliness to travellers). They seem to be able to make just about anything from next to bu****- all, often by sheer determination, persistence, skill and muscle power where we would quickly resort to technology and mechanisation that these guys have no access to.

Many of them have skills you'd find hard to believe, but unfortunately they lack the resources needed to produce the consistent quality that we have come to expect.
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So it is not simply prejudice uninformed by experience.

It remains true that you may well have a couple of nice knives.

But how does one tell in advance?
 
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It still kind of smacks of "Internet expert with his opinion." All I can speak for is my Fox and Hound and that's all I know
 
Uath said:
I can't believe I'm doing this.. Here's my Fox and Hound, not bad after being a brush knife for years:

538060_10200987320069338_512221870_n.jpg


297941_10200987321149365_973413454_n.jpg


(By the way, the hammer is named "Bell." Yes, I painted it blue. I use it to fumble with while I watch TV. No, I don't use it for anything else)
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Nice hammers.
 
You seriously painted a hammer blue and use it for nothing more than "fumbling with" while you watch tv?

I have a Taiwan made otf knife that is a Microtech copy. It works perfect and has never failed to fire or retract and I bragged it up what a good deal it is and it really is a great knife if you just want to open and close it while your watching tv or to cut open tape on boxes but I cut some zip ties with it and after about 5 zip ties I looked at the blade and it has a bunch of chips in it. Point being use the knife and put it through it's paces then come back here and defend it. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay.
 
3 pages and no one has just simply stated the truth; Pakistani damascus is garbage and the OP is either prepubescent or deranged.
 
Not sure what your purpose here is. I love my American made knives but that hasn't stopped me from buying knives from France, China, Italy, Taiwan, Germany, El Salvador, New Zealand and probably some other countries that I am forgetting. For me country of origin isn't as important as quality.

The knives I have bought all come from good companies with pretty solid reputations. Now every Pakistani knife I have ever handled has been complete crap, I have never personally owned one but I have used ones that my friends own and tried sharpening their poor excuse for steel.

You coming on here and saying everyone is wrong isn't going to change any minds. You've already said you barely use your knives so if all you wanted was a cheap damascus knife you can look at then congrats, goal achieved. Why persist on selling us on something you haven't even used and don't seem willing to document any use for us to see?
 
Well I happen to have some experience with a Pakistani Damascus knife, it was part of my collection before I started researching and got into higher end knives, my only large fixed blade, back then I really liked (though I had nothing to compare it too besides other knives made in China and Pakistan). F&F wasn't great or good even, but wasn't horrible. I mostly used it to cut weeds and black berries in the back yard, I did use it on wood a couple times (by use it I mean chop on a piece of dry cedar we had cut down about 6 months earlier) After about the third time doing that it developed a visible crack about 3/4 long in the unsharpened part of the blade (kind of where the choil would be) so I stopped using it on wood and went back to thistles and vines. It held an edge about the same as my chinese folders (all were about $10 each) so I was happy with the edge holding. I'm not sure where it went as I never through it away, but heres a pic from google that looks to be exactly the same one, mine came with a brown leather sheath.
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Would I ever buy another one? Nope, not for $5 even
Would I be happy with its edge holding or F&F now? Nope
 
Oh I give up! The final word I have to say is that there are so many knife makers in Pakistan making so many knives and the quality is uneven at best. There! I still think you guys are too hard on them for no reason other than hear say.

Still, my new knife is a cable Damascus, made from old steel cables, not pots and pans. Let's hope it defies the odds.

Hey, I may be deranged, but I'm certainly not prepubescent (unless someone in their mid-50's can be called that). Come on, we are talking about toys here, right? I don't think anybody on this forum is surprised that I keep a favorite hammer on my coffee table to play with while I watch TV. Isn't that what were all about, TOYS?

My main toys are hammers. It's something about the drop-forged steel. They're so permanent, you don't even have to sharpen them. I love hammers more than anything and I can vouch that my Estwings are top-notch. I'm actually thinking about asking Ben Potter to make a double-faced war hammer for me.
A lot of technology leaves me cold, but hammers, I understand.
 
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100eyes said:
3 pages and no one has just simply stated the truth; Pakistani damascus is garbage and the OP is either prepubescent or deranged.
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But, it is pretty. Some knives are fated to never actually cut anything. Yes, I can feel Chris Reeve's disapproval all the way from over here.
 
i have sharpened a lot of knives over the years and i have seen my share of pakistan knives which i refuse to sharpen. the last pakistan damascus folder i was sent (out of curiosity) would not take an edge. i gave it to a buddy that rockwell tested both edges. 1 was 22 rc and the other was 34rc. these were tnz damascus and i told the guy to get his money back which he did.

uath, i would be curious to see what the rc of your knife is. it would suprise me if it was in the mid 50's.

my buddy here in town bought a ground damascus bowie blade from pakistan and i was able to cut it with a file. the only thing its good for is wallhanger.
 
Uath said:
Oh I give up! The final word I have to say is that there are so many knife makers in Pakistan making so many knives and the quality is uneven at best. There! I still think you guys are too hard on them for no reason other than hear say.

Still, my new knife is a cable Damascus, made from old steel cables, not pots and pans. Let's hope it defies the odds.

Hey, I may be deranged, but I'm certainly not prepubescent (unless someone in their mid-50's can be called that). Come on, we are talking about toys here, right? I don't think anybody on this forum is surprised that I keep a favorite hammer on my coffee table to play with while I watch TV. Isn't that what were all about, TOYS?

My main toys are hammers. It's something about the drop-forged steel. They're so permanent, you don't even have to sharpen them. I love hammers more than anything and I can vouch that my Estwings are top-notch. I'm actually thinking about asking Ben Potter to make a double-faced war hammer for me.
A lot of technology leaves me cold, but hammers, I understand.
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That's the point right there. Why risk buying something when there is such a high risk of it being poor quality? If it's only a toy for you to play with while watching TV then it doesn't matter if it's a piece of sheet metal but for those of us that actually put our knives to use it can be down right dangerous having a knife that's just as likely to snap and hurt you as it is to just go dull the first time you use it.
 
Now that the knife community has been made aware of the high quality of Pakistani damascus, Devon Thomas and Chad Nichols better watch out!
 
A few comments after reading the topic yesterday and stewing on it a bit:

It is an attractive knife in the stock photo.

Braided steel cables are not made from high-quality steel, although there are plenty of custom makers who use it, and they charge a heckuva lot more than forty dollars.

I'll keep an open mind with regards to durability during use. Bring on the user reviews!

I'd be very interested in seeing photos of the knife you actually received, especially good closeups of the fit around the bolster. The knife in the stock photo appears to have a large gap between the stag and the brass that's been filled. If you're having trouble taking pictures, check out this topic in the Gallery forum area: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/328550-No-Frills-75-00-home-studio-tent-lightbox

It is sad what has happened to the name of one of the greatest American outdoor knife companies of all time. I'd be more inclined to buy a similar knife if it wore the name of the Pakistani company or person who actually made it.
 
No sadder than Schwinn Bicycles, Levi jeans, and the million other companies who ship our jobs overseas. At least REAL people are making these knives by hand. I keep dreading the day when Estwing Hammers come from China.

Na! That will never happen. Estwing makes the best hammers in the world. That's the thing about "Made In The USA," you pay more, but the quality is unmistakable. We've turned to being the luxury manufacturers of the highest quality stuff. For how long??
 
Still, my new knife is a cable Damascus, made from old steel cables, not pots and pans. Let's hope it defies the odds.
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Respectfully, your statement is based on hearsay, is it not? You rely on the people who have a financial stake in your support of their product.

We, in turn rely on those, including experts, who have used and tested Pakistani damascus plus, in my case and in the case of others who have posted in this thread, personal experience with its shortcomings.

Enjoy your knife.
 
Oh, I don't know... Saying something is made from old steel cables isn't exactly a huge selling point. I don't think they'd bother unless it were true. Why would they? Also, the steel LOOKS like other knives advertised as cable Damascus, it's definitely "Real" in that regard. The pattern is right and it's definitely not etched-on. Let me take some pictures of it later.

To be fair, I've bought lots of blacksmith-forged weapons from India. Some of them are great. Windlass makes some good stuff (Uneven). I'll post pictures of the Double-Handed Scimitar I've used for years as a machete. I've beat the crap out of that thing. It's a tank! It's not Damascus though, I think 1055, you can see the hammer marks. You know, I've always thought it was Windlass, but it may not be. I actually bought it from a witchcraft supply place on the Internet. Best sword I have, tough enough to clear cherry and oak saplings all day. Right at the root, that means whapping it into the dirt over, and over, and over.
 
Here's a few pictures of one I bought a few years ago.
This was advertised as cable damascus, I didn't buy it to use, so I have no idea how well it holds an edge.
I didn't expect much , but it does look good. I was going to put it in a display case.

I agree with Richard J, I don't think it would RC for more than the mid 50's

As long as the OP knows he will need something better to dress a deer or make kindling for camp, he'll be ok.
For a wall hanger it might be the "best" damascus.



 
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