paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

kwackster said:
And how the knife looks now.
While keeping the edge angle about the same so the bevels would not widen too much per owner's request, i resharpened the main edge completely and the bayonet grind only superficially to come to a sharp point with a 15 micron diamond compound Paper Wheel, then cleaned up the bevels a bit and removed the tiny burr with a 1.0 micron diamond compound Paper Wheel.
The edge angle again measures ~55 degrees inclusive, yet the new apex is just sharp enough to shave the hair on the back of my hand a bit on skin level.
Click to expand...

Would you suggest going with 2x paper wheels with diamond compound, over the factory 1x Grit and 1x Paper polish wheel?

And what mix of grits would you say is optimal for sharpening 'sharpish' pocket knives? IE restoring a knife that slices paper, but a bit roughly, and bringing it up to shaving / super shaving sharp?

And whats the best way to apply the diamond paste to the wheels?
 
mark greenman mark greenman :

In general i think it would be best to start out with just a standard set of Paper Wheels, consisting of the wax cooled SiC gritted sharpening Wheel & the forced air cooled slotted deburring/polishing Wheel (on which you use the provided block of white aluminium oxide)
Then practise a lot on cheap knives to find out if this system might work for you or not.
A couple of naked Wheels to charge with various diamond powders/pastes/sprays can always be bought later if you want to do more high (vanadium) carbide volume steel types and/or ceramic knives.

Provided they are not too far gone, edges on simpler steel types can often be touched up fast & easy using just the slotted Wheel (and the block of white aluminium oxide)
But sometimes i just take a Spyderco medium or fine ceramic stick to create a microbevel with a few passes.

For me the best way to apply diamond paste to the surface of a Paper Wheel is with a clean index finger.
That's how i've been doing it for years.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to be controversial and say that IMHO anyways, there is no 1 perfect way to sharpen everything that needs to be sharpened. Try sharpening a 18 - 24"" machete on a 6" or 8" bench grinder. I think that most of us end up with a multitude of sharpening equipment. Which is good if you sharpen a multitude of different types of things.

Time is important, no doubt. But there is also a lot to be said for being able to sharpen by hand, just in case the power goes out long term. For many, the therapeutic value is an added bonus. I have a variety of stones both oil & water. I have a 1 x 30 belt sander with a variety of grits and a leather stropping belt. I have ceramic sticks, a ceramic buba stick, a Tormek T4 Bushcraft machine & the Japanese waterstone for it that works friggin awesome . And many others. But none that I have work excellent for everything. I do still use them all, depending on what I am doing.

Hard to beat the Tormek for fixing an uneven grind on a 1/4" thick hard use outdoor knife or changing the angle of the cutting edge. Hard to beat the paper wheels for a quick touch up when the edge is already about there & they are also excellent for small pocket knives.

I am currently considering a HF 8" grinder/buffer & putting paper wheels on it. It is a never ending quest for me, lol.
 
TwinStick said:
Hard to beat the Tormek for fixing an uneven grind on a 1/4" thick hard use outdoor knife or changing the angle of the cutting edge.
Click to expand...
How about a horizontal wheel grinder? I find them much easier to use. Tormek is capable of doing concave grin but for the rest of the stuff I like to keep things horizontal.
 
First post on here so, hey everyone.
I am in the process of setting up a couple paper wheels on a Rikon variable's 8” grinder with 10” paper wheels. I am interested in finding/buying/making a couple Forward Vertical Bases for controlled sharpening. Does anyone have any source for such a piece of equipment?
Another question I have is in regards to Nano-oil. Does it cause the paper wheel to swell or lose any integrity? I will be using slotted wheels applying my own diamond paste.
 
Gottagofishn said:
Another question I have is in regards to Nano-oil. Does it cause the paper wheel to swell or lose any integrity? I will be using slotted wheels applying my own diamond paste.
Click to expand...

Only if you use too much (of any oil)
I have found 5 to 6 small drops of 5 weight Nano-Oil once a week to be just right for me, without it causing swelling.
 
An older one, a user Spyderco Military in S90V steel from a Dutch forum member who requested a little more bling.
First i used a standard Paper Wheel with silicon carbide grit, followed by a second Paper Wheel with 15 micron diamond paste as well as a third Paper Wheel with 6 micron diamond paste, after which the tiny burr was removed on the Tormek leather wheel.
It's not a true mirror edge, as with the magnifying glass in my Victorinox SwissChamp i can still see fine scratching, but with the naked eye it's close.
Sharpness is hairwhittling (both to and from the root) and it can also slice single layer toiletpaper with ease.






 
A small black ceramic backlock folder without any markings (Böker ?) i did in 2013.
This well made knife had practically no edge and no point to speak of when i received it, and even opening mail with it was difficult.
I used the Tormek Blackstone graded to around 1000 grit for freehand reprofiling, followed by 3 Paper Wheels coated with 15, 6.0 and 3.0 micron diamond compounds for refining & polishing.
The new edge fits in the 30 degrees inclusive slot on my Tormek angle gauge, is slightly convex, and can shave the hair on my leg in both directions.









Specs:

Length open: 4.72 inches (12,0 cm)
Length closed: 2.76 inches (7,5 cm)
Blade material: black zirconium oxide
Blade length: 1.57 inches (4,5 cm)
Blade thickness: 2,0 mm
Handle material: Ivory Micarta & Nickel Silver bolsters
Weight: 61 grams
 
Last edited:
A niece of mine is an avid amateur Chef (but not yet a knife afi), and this black ceramic knife (a rebranded Kyocera) is one of her favorites in the kitchen, as due to the tougher blade material the edges can be made thinner and thus the knife cuts better than a white ceramic version.
Longtime use however (not always on a suitable cutting board) plus storing it unprotected in a drawer between a bunch of steel bladed knives had blunted the edge to a point next to unusable, complete with quite a lot of (micro) chips and a broken tip.

This is the knife as it was when i received it.
(when you click the pictures 2 x you can see the chips clearly)









This is the knife after sharpening.
I reprofiled the rather bad factory edge to an ever so slight convex edge of +/- 25 degrees inclusive, and the sharpness is just hairwhittling (only towards the root, not to the point)
It easily slices single layer toiletpaper (torn apart 3-layered version) and a tomato of course.
Removing the chips and setting the new bevel was done with a Tormek T7, refining & convexing with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and semi-polishing with a second Paper Wheel coated with 6 micron diamond compound.










Specs:

Overall length: 11.0 inch (28,0 cm)
Blade length: 5.8 inch (14,8 cm)
Blade thickness: 1,84 mm
Blade type: black ceramic / saber-hollow
Thickness behind the edge: 0,4 mm

The first clip shows the slicing of a piece of standard 3-layered toilet paper, for the second clip i peel off 1 layer and slice the remaining 2 layers, and the third clip shows the slicing of just the remaining single layer of toilet paper:




Slicing a tomato:

 
I first talked to Wootz/Vadim when he joined this thread on Paper Wheels on the Australian Bladeforums in 2015/2016:


Vadim was very interested in the modifications i had developed to the Paper Wheels sharpening & deburring system, and which transformed the sharpening/polishing of ceramic knives and later also high (vanadium-) carbide steel types.
Those mods involved the use of various fine diamond compounds together with certain types of dried oil to make the diamonds adhere to the Paper Wheel surface.
Vadim adopted my process to aid in his growing knife sharpening business in Australia (as did quite a few other knife people around the world), and we kept in contact over the years from time to time.

It's very sad that he departed this earth at such a relatively young age.
My impression is that if he had lived longer he would have advanced the knowledge of knife sharpening even more than he already did in the time that he had.
 
Last edited:
kwackster said:
A niece of mine is an avid amateur Chef (but not yet a knife afi), and this black ceramic knife (a rebranded Kyocera) is one of her favorites in the kitchen, as due to the tougher blade material the edges can be made thinner and thus the knife cuts better than a white ceramic version.
Longtime use however (not always on a suitable cutting board) plus storing it unprotected in a drawer between a bunch of steel bladed knives had blunted the edge to a point next to unusable, complete with quite a lot of (micro) chips and a broken tip.

This is the knife as it was when i received it.
(when you click the pictures 2 x you can see the chips clearly)









This is the knife after sharpening.
I reprofiled the rather bad factory edge to an ever so slight convex edge of +/- 25 degrees inclusive, and the sharpness is just hairwhittling (only towards the root, not to the point)
It easily slices single layer toiletpaper (torn apart 3-layered version) and a tomato of course.
Removing the chips and setting the new bevel was done with a Tormek T7, refining & convexing with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and semi-polishing with a second Paper Wheel coated with 6 micron diamond compound.










Specs:

Overall length: 11.0 inch (28,0 cm)
Blade length: 5.8 inch (14,8 cm)
Blade thickness: 1,84 mm
Blade type: black ceramic / saber-hollow
Thickness behind the edge: 0,4 mm

The first clip shows the slicing of a piece of standard 3-layered toilet paper, for the second clip i peel off 1 layer and slice the remaining 2 layers, and the third clip shows the slicing of just the remaining single layer of toilet paper:




Slicing a tomato:

Click to expand...
Love that overall knife shape....both the handle and blade.
Idk anything about that maker/brand...... but other than the full guard on a kitchen knife, I'd draw it exactly like that. I like the lower tip
Super Cool looking, Thanks.
 
In general i use various professional grade diamond pastes from this US source:.

Consumables - Micro Star 2000 Inc.: Metallurgical Technology Supplier of Materialographic Sample Preparation Equipment and Consumables

Micro Star 2000 Inc. established in 1986, became of of Canada's leading Supplier of Metallographic Instruments and Consumables for Metallurgical Sample preparation
microstar2000.com

These are however rather difficult to obtain in the Netherlands where i live, and not exactly cheap either.
The pro's however are the sheer amount of diamonds in every syringe and their high quality grading.

A cheaper option and still good quality would be TechDiamondTools:

Home

TechDiamondTools is a leader on the market of high-quality professional tools for cutting, drilling, polishing, and lapidary
techdiamondtools.com techdiamondtools.com

Now i haven't used their diamond pastes yet (still have a rather large stock of the other ones), but some time ago i did buy a packet of coarser grit diamond powder from them, and so far this performs most excellent as a replacement for the standard SiC grit on a Paper Wheel.
Very useful for initial edges on especially high vanadium carbide rich steel types.

 
kwackster said:
I first talked to Wootz/Vadim when he joined this thread on Paper Wheels on the Australian Bladeforums in 2015/2016:


Vadim was very interested in the modifications i had developed to the Paper Wheels sharpening & deburring system, and which transformed the sharpening/polishing of ceramic knives and later also high (vanadium-) carbide steel types.
Those mods involved the use of various fine diamond compounds together with certain types of dried oil to make the diamonds adhere to the Paper Wheel surface.
Vadim adopted my process to aid in his growing knife sharpening business in Australia (as did quite a few other knife people around the world), and we kept in contact over the years from time to time.

It's very sad that he departed this earth at such a relatively young age.
My impression is that if he had lived longer he would have advanced the knowledge of knife sharpening even more than he already did in the time that he had.
Click to expand...
In your post you mentioned Vadim used dried oil. Do you use that or any oil? I recently got my buffer, two 10” slotted paper wheels, set up in an effort to lower BESS scores and the shine of course. I also have the buffer mounted to a plate with two FVB’s and am using controlled angle techniques.
I applied a small amount of oil to both wheels prior to applying 6 micron diamond paste to one and a mix of chromium oxide/.25 diamond to the other.
So far no luck. Scores usually go up 20 points. Admittedly the knives I’ve been using for this haven’t been of very good quality.
I’m just getting started and have only attempted this on less than 10 knives. I make a pass, check score, make a pass and check again. Vadim was very clear on his technique’s and specific’s. He was clearly a master of his craft.
Any thoughts on what angle adjustment might be beneficial or a technique? The angle I’ve been working with is 15 degrees dps.
 
It's the other way around: i developed the sharpening/polishing on Paper Wheels using dried oil & various diamond pastes/powders, then later Vadim and others adopted the process.
The thread on Australian Bladeforums that i linked to is definitely worth reading.

There are however differences between our appoaches: while i use this process for reprofiling, sharpening, deburring & polishing, Vadim used it only or mostly for deburring.
Another difference is that i do everything freehand on Paper Wheels, while Vadim used various Tormek accessories to create a guided system.
We also didn't agree on everything regarding Paper Wheel sharpening, but that's how we all learn.

This thread holds many nuggets on Paper Wheel sharpening in general, and here and there i've added my own experiences using diamond compounds & grit on Paper Wheels.
There is a learning curve with Paper Wheels, and more so when learning to work with naked wheels, various diamond pastes, and different types of oil.

Also: once you have coated the surface of the Paper Wheel with diamond paste & oil let it all dry thoroughly, or you risk losing most or all of the diamonds due to the centrifugal forces of the machine.
Besides using a half-speed grinder i tend to apply the diamond pastes & oil just before weekends, so the mixture has several days and nights to dry.
 
Last edited:
This weekend I spent some time with the buffer setup (low speed, 2 slotted paper wheels). I found two things. The first is, I was able to sharpen a few knives sharper than I was able to sharpen them by either the Tormek honing wheel or leather 1x30 belts and they were beautifully polished. I only got two knives to 90. They were cheap knives and previously I was only getting them to 160. That was a HUGE win, the second thing was that I found I am able to sharpen/strop freehand. It gives you plenty of feedback when you find your edge by sound and feel. I see I definitely need more practice at that procedure though.
Starting to feel better for the time and effort setting up the FVB’s and the space this thing takes up on my workbench.
 
Too no one in particular… I have read much of his thread a see folks talking about “scary” sharp, “crazy” Sharp and of course the ever popular “hair whittling” sharp. Anyone ever test their edges on a BESS? If so, what kind of scores do you expect on good steel?
 
Wootz/Vadim testing heat build-up in the edge when using Paper Wheels with diamond compound:


He never told me in our e-mail conversations, but i recently found that he mentions me by name in the on-screen text, :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top