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Parabolic grind for food release on vegetable knife?
- Thread starter Nathan the Machinist
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Mario said it was a simple convex grind on a chubby blade
No flat surfaces on his blades.One thing to note is that while potatoes are a good test overall, the real test is to skin them and leave them soaking water in the fridge overnight.
Hi Don,thanks for the tip on the potatoes I guess that would make it more consistent.I just finished roughing in 2 chefs.The first was 75% flat, rest convex.The second was 100% flat then convex (rotary platen set stiff)ever so slight hump in the middle.We shall see. Thanks again on the Mario thing.Good luck,Lu.
Daniel Rohde
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is there anything about cutting technique that causes food stickage? or is it all in the grind?
DR....
DR....
james terrio
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Why? Does that make the tater "stickier" (my first guess, not having heard that before) ? I'm not being a smart-alec, it's an honest question
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There definitely is technique involved, but I'm not that good with cooking myself so I don't know
Why? Does that make the tater "stickier" (my first guess, not having heard that before) ? I'm not being a smart-alec, it's an honest question
EDIT: Corrected by bravodelta below.
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Why? Does that make the tater "stickier" (my first guess, not having heard that before) ? I'm not being a smart-alec, it's an honest question
It actually does that opposite. Soaking taters is an established technique to wash the natural starches off the surface. The starches are what make the taters, pasta, rice stick and clump together. Restaurants soak French fries and change the water multiple times before frying. ***NOTE - make sure to dry them throughly before frying unless you want an explosion.
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Interesting, thanks for the correction. I learn through feedback from users and a sometimes I misunderstand their techniques
Learned something new today.
james terrio
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Hmm... that makes a lot more sense. I've heard of and used that "process", for the sake of leaching out some of the carbs and getting a crispier "fry", or not making a stew too mushy.
Chilling (not freezing) most food items typically makes them a heckuva lot easier to slice/cut clean/thin. Some would even call it cheating
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Wow this thread should go to the stickies
Jokes aside, it is very difficult that small nuances in the flat/convex grind actually have an effect in the sticky action.
I believe it is more related to the consistency of the potato, the thickness of the slices and the surface tension of what's on the surface of the blade, i.e. oil film....but i don't know yet enough to make a sound statement on the subject; that's why i follow this thread with a lot of interest.
I grind my kitchen knives flat and thin and naturally convex while honing on the stones...on the same blade sometimes i have sticking and sometimes not, regardless the vegetable being cut.
Jokes aside, it is very difficult that small nuances in the flat/convex grind actually have an effect in the sticky action.
I believe it is more related to the consistency of the potato, the thickness of the slices and the surface tension of what's on the surface of the blade, i.e. oil film....but i don't know yet enough to make a sound statement on the subject; that's why i follow this thread with a lot of interest.
I grind my kitchen knives flat and thin and naturally convex while honing on the stones...on the same blade sometimes i have sticking and sometimes not, regardless the vegetable being cut.
You are right Robert!
Actually i cringe when i see my grandmother (she's 93) fiddling with those worn pairing knives you are taking about!!!
I think it is a miracle she never cut herself, i guess those knives are so trained they don't even require the chef...they already know what to do LOL
Actually i cringe when i see my grandmother (she's 93) fiddling with those worn pairing knives you are taking about!!!
I think it is a miracle she never cut herself, i guess those knives are so trained they don't even require the chef...they already know what to do LOL
james terrio
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Experienced hunters often say, "Beware the man with only one, well-worn rifle"... because that man has probably used it a lot and knows its limitations and capabilities inside-and-out... and knows how to make the most of it in many situations.
I'll wager the same is true of the ol' granny who can run an entire kitchen, household or homestead with one knife
I'll wager the same is true of the ol' granny who can run an entire kitchen, household or homestead with one knife
In 1987 Dennis Conner had a tape on the hull of his Americas Cup boat which was supposed to create a layer of air bubbles between the hull and the water to reduce stiction/friction. The tape had a rough surface, maybe 220 grit. Engineers and scientists from around the world jumped in to mathematically prove/disprove the concept. After the races, as I recall, Dennis said they were never able to prove if the tape helped or not but it sure scared the hell out of the Auzzies.
My questions: Has anyone every tried to determine whether a smooth surface, 1000/1200 grit or a bead blasted surface has lower stiction? Also, has anyone ever tried to determine if horizontal or vertical sanding marks make a difference in stiction?
Answering those 2 questions may provide as much help in reducing stiction as the grind.
Tim
My questions: Has anyone every tried to determine whether a smooth surface, 1000/1200 grit or a bead blasted surface has lower stiction? Also, has anyone ever tried to determine if horizontal or vertical sanding marks make a difference in stiction?
Answering those 2 questions may provide as much help in reducing stiction as the grind.
Tim
james terrio
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From my limited experience and research, the "general consensus" seems to be that the more highly-polished the surface is, the more likely wet food items are to stick. Mirror-polished buffed blades are wildly unpopular among professionals who actually cut food items all day for a living. There's probably a good reason for that.
That makes sense on the surface of the argument (ho ho), because a hand-sanded or machine-finished blade has little negative spaces that allow airspace between the blade and the work. (less contact means less sticking, right? So they say) The next logical - but hugely radical - step is stuff like Granton grooves and drilling a bunch of holes through the blade.
I remain unconvinced of all that. I could be wrong, but I just don't see much difference in actual use. My gut feeling is, overall geometry has a lot more to do with it than surface finish or a bunch of extra machining.
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Hey James,
I have a 10" slicer with a 1" high blade. It has Granton groves full length, both sides, and as far as I can tell they make no difference. However, I only use it to slice ham, roasts, and turkey - no veggies. I have always felt Granton grooves were nothing but a marketing gimmick.
I know you are right about small air spaces reducing stiction. When I was working for a company which made quick disconnects for hydrazine fuel lines in space, we found that if the metal-to-metal sealing joint was too smooth, the two surfaces would weld themselves together.
I'm simply wondering if anyone knows of some actual testing which would tell us kitchen knife makers which surface is better, sand/bead blasted or smooth, for cutting veggies. I doubt the direction of sanding, vertical or horizontal, would make much difference.
Anyone have a friend or son at MIT who could run some tests as part of his Masters thesis?
I have a 10" slicer with a 1" high blade. It has Granton groves full length, both sides, and as far as I can tell they make no difference. However, I only use it to slice ham, roasts, and turkey - no veggies. I have always felt Granton grooves were nothing but a marketing gimmick.
I know you are right about small air spaces reducing stiction. When I was working for a company which made quick disconnects for hydrazine fuel lines in space, we found that if the metal-to-metal sealing joint was too smooth, the two surfaces would weld themselves together.
I'm simply wondering if anyone knows of some actual testing which would tell us kitchen knife makers which surface is better, sand/bead blasted or smooth, for cutting veggies. I doubt the direction of sanding, vertical or horizontal, would make much difference.
Anyone have a friend or son at MIT who could run some tests as part of his Masters thesis?
Olimpic swim suits, shark skin they resemble in textures, were developed with that principle in mind.
However i believe that a rough grind has little to do in terms of bubbles, but maybe helps in creating micro turbulences in the water film, thus helping the movement of the....potato
However i believe that a rough grind has little to do in terms of bubbles, but maybe helps in creating micro turbulences in the water film, thus helping the movement of the....potato
Mete,
I seem to recall some testing done by the Navy years ago with the goal of making nuclear subs both quieter and faster. I wouldn't try to find out the test results, though, because you might become a target for "wet sanctions".
Stezann,
Thanks. Micro turbulence was the term I was looking for, not bubbles. Although, the way those Americas Cup boats sailed, wet, slow, bubbles and potato are all appropriate terms.
Tim
I seem to recall some testing done by the Navy years ago with the goal of making nuclear subs both quieter and faster. I wouldn't try to find out the test results, though, because you might become a target for "wet sanctions".
Stezann,
Thanks. Micro turbulence was the term I was looking for, not bubbles. Although, the way those Americas Cup boats sailed, wet, slow, bubbles and potato are all appropriate terms.
Tim