Paramilitary 2 or ZT 561? Vote!

Paramilitary M390 Or ZT 561

  • ZT 561 Elmax steel

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Paramilitary 2 M390

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Both

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The 0561 is a production knife...easy to get. The PM2 M390 is a sprint run...the price will go up. Get the one thats hard to get now and worry about production pieces later on down the road.
 
1SHOT1KILL said:
The 0561 is a production knife...easy to get. The PM2 M390 is a sprint run...the price will go up. Get the one thats hard to get now and worry about production pieces later on down the road.
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Agreed, 056x is a great knife no question but the market is flooded with them. You can regularly get them on the exchange for 200 or less. Blue para2 won't always be readily available.

I have had and traded/sold multiple 0560/0561s only because I knew I could replace it easily. Para2 in any sprint/dealer exclusive is much more difficult to replace and will most likely cost money as the prices go up
 
1SHOT1KILL said:
The 0561 is a production knife...easy to get. The PM2 M390 is a sprint run...the price will go up. Get the one thats hard to get now and worry about production pieces later on down the road.
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561 is a production knife and easy to get, but probably not for the price he got. PM2 is not a sprint, but dealer exclusive. Currently is a second batch and the dealer can order as many as he wants.
 
I dont care for availability or exclusivity. I want a good knife.

If the PM2 M390 really goes up in price it doesn't matter because if it really is such a hot item, I could always pay whatever it is worth then and resell it to get my money back.

I am looking for a user knife, and I know user knives do NOT keep their value.

So far I've got ZT 561 being better due to: KVT (simplified IKBS) bushing system, lockbar stabilizer, more robust stout design (ZT 561 looks like it could take more of a beating than the PM2), and way better F&F.

PM2 has: M390 blade steel, and possible blade replacement options if the blade becomes non repairable.
 
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Personally...they're both good knives. You can't go wrong either way. (I also stand corrected on the sprint run vs. dealer exclusive/albeit I don't think the smurf knife will be available forever)
 
1SHOT1KILL said:
What defines "a good knife" for you?
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Not making it into a semantics debate but here's what I am expecting from it:

-Eat cardboard... Then some more cardboard.
-Carve/cut wood. I sometimes make wooden sheaths, and a knife works a bit better in some situations than a chisel.
-Cut leather, fabrics, etc.
-Outdoor use
-If needed to, take abuse.

-Cutting down trees
-Moving mountains.
JK on the last two.


They probably won't go anywhere but neither is Spyderco and their sprint runs.

So far I think I will get a S35VN PM2 and keep the ZT 561 (unless I don't like it once I get in hand).
 
I am sitting here waiting on a blue m390 PM2 to arrive so that pretty much answers the question as to which one I would choose :D

But honestly I don't consider any folder to be a hard use knife. The PM2 is a great knife on it's own but if I need something tougher to accompany the PM2 it will be a fixed blade.

I like all the steel possibilities offered in the PM2, none are truly a bad choice. I don't think the M390 is worth the extra money it costs. But I have never used M390 and I like the blue so I bought one anyway. As far as being a good value compared to the others? No, it is without a doubt the worst value of all the versions offered.
 
I take a fixed blade with me when I go outdoors, but sometimes carrying it isn't an option. Hence the folders.
 
portlandreign81 said:
You don't because he didn't ask what your fav knife is. The southard isn't readily available and is quite a bit more expensive (on secondary market) plus maybe he wants a knife made in America
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Availability/expense are the main parts for it.

I wasn't aware the Southard was not american made, I thought it was given the price point. Definitely not on my list anymore (not that I have anything against offshore manufacturing, just the price should reflect it).
 
portlandreign81 said:
You don't because he didn't ask what your fav knife is. The southard isn't readily available and is quite a bit more expensive (on secondary market) plus maybe he wants a knife made in America
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Luis G. said:
Availability/expense are the main parts for it.

I wasn't aware the Southard was not american made, I thought it was given the price point. Definitely not on my list anymore (not that I have anything against offshore manufacturing, just the price should reflect it).
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Not trying to hijack your thread here, but I suggest you do a little research on the Taichung Taiwan spydercos and Taiwan's economy in general. The quality coming out of the Taichung plant is absolutely world class, I'd put fit and finish head and shoulders above both the Japanese and American made spydercos at this time, and for that matter, head and shoulders above anything even remotely near their price range. Taiwan is not china, it's not necessarily cheap to make knives there, especially if those knives are made of American made materials that must be shipped to Taiwan. Spyderco doesn't build their higher end knives in Taiwan because it's cheap, they do it because the particular maker they use is meticulous and puts out a world class product.
 
mkjellgren said:
Not trying to hijack your thread here, but I suggest you do a little research on the Taichung Taiwan spydercos and Taiwan's economy in general. The quality coming out of the Taichung plant is absolutely world class, I'd put fit and finish head and shoulders above both the Japanese and American made spydercos at this time, and for that matter, head and shoulders above anything even remotely near their price range. Taiwan is not china, it's not necessarily cheap to make knives there, especially if those knives are made of American made materials that must be shipped to Taiwan. Spyderco doesn't build their higher end knives in Taiwan because it's cheap, they do it because the particular maker they use is meticulous and puts out a world class product.
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No one here is saying they don't produce great products.
I simply don't believe in paying a premium price in a country who's manufacturing is far cheaper than in the USA.
Would you pay the same price for a Roll Royce copy, made in *insert low manufacturing cost country here* even if it's identical to one made by Rolls Royce? No, that defies the reason for moving manufacturing to offshore, the whole reason for moving is to cheapen production and increase value.
If you are not doing that, then why push manufacturing offshore?

The ZT 560 is a perfect comparison:
Street cost $260. Readily available. 100% american made/assembled. 3d machined scales (G10/Titanium) which allows for contour for ergos, titanium pocket clip. Highly skeletonized/pocketed (expensive). Fit and finish? Darn good if you look at vids and probably equal if not better than the southard when strictly speaking from a fit and finish perspective.
Southard:
Street price: $270 and up. Taiwan made w/ American blade steel, fit and finish, good. Anyone care to add specific features apart from the stabilizer/CTS 204 steel?
 
Luis G. said:
No one here is saying they don't produce great products.
I simply don't believe in paying a premium price in a country who's manufacturing is far cheaper than in the USA.
Would you pay the same price for a Roll Royce copy, made in *insert low manufacturing cost country here* even if it's identical to one made by Rolls Royce? No, that defies the reason for moving manufacturing to offshore, the whole reason for moving is to cheapen production and increase value.
If you are not doing that, then why push manufacturing offshore?

The ZT 560 is a perfect comparison:
Street cost $260. Readily available. 100% american made/assembled. 3d machined scales (G10/Titanium) which allows for contour for ergos, titanium pocket clip. Highly skeletonized/pocketed (expensive). Fit and finish? Darn good if you look at vids and probably equal if not better than the southard when strictly speaking from a fit and finish perspective.
Southard:
Street price: $270 and up. Taiwan made w/ American blade steel, fit and finish, good. Anyone care to add specific features apart from the stabilizer/CTS 204 steel?
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My Southard cost me $223 shipped. It also features better blade steel than the ZT, has a Ti liner under the g10 scale instead of the steel liner on the ZT, and yes, the fit and finish on the Southard best the 0560s I've handled by a large margin. Some people have gone so far as compare the build quality of the Southard to the likes of CRK and Hinderer. So in that respect, you are seeing the over seas production reflected in the cost. The southard would most likely cost $400ish if it were produced to the exact same standards here in the US. This topic has been discussed to death in the spyderco section so I'm just going to leave at that. Personally, I feel sorry for those who refuse to buy Taichung spydercos because they think they cost too much to not be produced in the US. The fact of the matter is that the Taichung spydercos are probably the best value, best made, highest fit and finish production knives on the market, regardless of price. Would I prefer all of my knives be American made? Of course I do, but if the Southard were $400+ I might not have bought one.
 
I recently had my buddies M390 P2 in for some reprofiling (Steel130 here on the forums) So I got the chance to play with it and my 0561 and compare them both.

I honestly like them both about the same. the para is lighter but the 0561 has a flipper (I totally dig flippers) So EDC would probably be better suited for the Para (The 0561 is pretty large, too so it will take up more space in your pocket) The para's grind is thinner towards the edge but I believe it has the same blade thickness as the 0561. I haven't had a chance to really see how elmax performs Since I've only had the Zt for a week or so but I can tell you it sharpens up like a dream for me . I've heard some Horror stories about Elmax being a pain to sharpen but Didn't experience that at all. I know you said you knew about the steels already but I thought I'd throw that in there. Here are some pics of the two knives with some others.

ndfv002.jpg


ndfv001.jpg


006-5.jpg


I would probably go for the 0561 but that's just me. Both are excellent.
 
mkjellgren said:
My Southard cost me $223 shipped. It also features better blade steel than the ZT, has a Ti liner under the g10 scale instead of the steel liner on the ZT, and yes, the fit and finish on the Southard best the 0560s I've handled by a large margin. Some people have gone so far as compare the build quality of the Southard to the likes of CRK and Hinderer. So in that respect, you are seeing the over seas production reflected in the cost. The southard would most likely cost $400ish if it were produced to the exact same standards here in the US. This topic has been discussed to death in the spyderco section so I'm just going to leave at that. Personally, I feel sorry for those who refuse to buy Taichung spydercos because they think they cost too much to not be produced in the US. The fact of the matter is that the Taichung spydercos are probably the best value, best made, highest fit and finish production knives on the market, regardless of price. Would I prefer all of my knives be American made? Of course I do, but if the Southard were $400+ I might not have bought one.
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ZT's use titanium liners on the G10 side.
Looking at vids, both knives look fairly similar in fit and finish.

Anyways I think I've decided to get the ZT 561 and a PM2 S35VN.
 
Luis G,
I think you sort of missed the point with the M390 PM2 being exclusive. He was not saying get it because it is special, he was saying get it now while you can just in case you want one later, and the 561 would be easier to find later as it is a regular production knife. I would add that it is too bad you missed the green CTS-204P exclusive pre-order because that cost the same as the brown which you are getting and it is the same steel as M390 made by an American company. Then, you would have the 561 and a PM2 with a superior steel. Whatever you do, enjoy your blades, we are lucky to have this "dilemma."
 
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