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Paramilitary 2 or ZT 561? Vote!
- Thread starter Luis G.
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 293
I probably shouldn't even post here, but I'd vote neither.
If you need a real "hard use" knife, you need a fixed blade. If you need a good utility slicer that you're not afraid to destroy, get an Opinel. For an edc do everything half-assed camping knife, either of your choices will work.
I loath "super steels". Will never buy another knife in anything other than 1095 or 440C. The newer "forged in outerspace unobtanium" steels hold an edge great if you can get the edge on them. You had better be near a diamond stone and have a few free hours or you're out of luck. You sure aren't going to be able to do it in th field. And hard use is really a misnomer as they aren't very forgiving of lateral forces. 1095 or a lesser stainless isn't a problem.
If you need a real "hard use" knife, you need a fixed blade. If you need a good utility slicer that you're not afraid to destroy, get an Opinel. For an edc do everything half-assed camping knife, either of your choices will work.
I loath "super steels". Will never buy another knife in anything other than 1095 or 440C. The newer "forged in outerspace unobtanium" steels hold an edge great if you can get the edge on them. You had better be near a diamond stone and have a few free hours or you're out of luck. You sure aren't going to be able to do it in th field. And hard use is really a misnomer as they aren't very forgiving of lateral forces. 1095 or a lesser stainless isn't a problem.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,592
Nope, the ZT uses a steel liner. Look at some vids of pimp jobs where the ti scale is anodized and the liner is unable to be anodized because it is steel. Also, you can't tell fit and finish until you actually get the knife in your hand. It's something you have to feel, not see. With that said, I'm sure you'll love the ZT and the pm2. I have both and they're both excellent, I just feel that the Southard is better.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2012
- Messages
- 20
Get a PM2, save money for another knife, excellent cutter and a great overall knife.
Both have good ergos,although there are some hotspots on the 0560/61.
0560/61 have had numerous cases of blade play,so I don't know if they fixed that in the current run.
I have both,but would recommend a PM2
Both have good ergos,although there are some hotspots on the 0560/61.
0560/61 have had numerous cases of blade play,so I don't know if they fixed that in the current run.
I have both,but would recommend a PM2
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2011
- Messages
- 2,972
The thing with "forged in outerspace unobtanium" steels is you won't have to sharpen them out in the field. Blade forums is really a great place to learn about these super steels. Just being ignorant and bashing them because you are stuck in your ways and do not like new things does no good. Most of these super steels blows 440C away in all categories, not just edge retention, ELMAX for example is way tougher than 440C. Some super steels can take a while to sharpen, but again not all are that bad. Just grouping them all together and saying they all suck is not constructive at all. From what I have read ELMAX is not bad and M390 is not too bad either. In fact the only ones I have heard that are pretty tough to sharpen are customs that are heat treated to the upper limit.
Brasso3 thanks for your concern, I already have a fixed blades. Couple customs and a few cheapie production knives that I use for the outdoors, great little blades.
The folders are to carry 24/7 on me and one for the camp whenever one of us goes away from the campsite, something I can't do with the fixed blades easily (people get spooked when they see a large custom knife strapped to my leg or something. Not really for safety but just in case, better to have then not to have.
@M390 comments
I understand they may not be available later on, but that's fine with me since Spyderco will still do sprint runs for many years to come of other steels that may be similar if not better than M390. If it really comes down to it, I can get M390 from Benchmade all year round. Like I said M390 vs Elmax is not a selling point. I will still get a PM2 in S35VN to a feel for the Paramilitary 2. Who knows if I like it more than the ZT561 I will just get the M390.
So far M390 has really pleased me compared to every other steel I've used, however compared to Elmax there should be little difference.
The folders are to carry 24/7 on me and one for the camp whenever one of us goes away from the campsite, something I can't do with the fixed blades easily (people get spooked when they see a large custom knife strapped to my leg or something. Not really for safety but just in case, better to have then not to have.
@M390 comments
I understand they may not be available later on, but that's fine with me since Spyderco will still do sprint runs for many years to come of other steels that may be similar if not better than M390. If it really comes down to it, I can get M390 from Benchmade all year round. Like I said M390 vs Elmax is not a selling point. I will still get a PM2 in S35VN to a feel for the Paramilitary 2. Who knows if I like it more than the ZT561 I will just get the M390.
So far M390 has really pleased me compared to every other steel I've used, however compared to Elmax there should be little difference.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2008
- Messages
- 4,647
Wow. A few hours huh? It took me about 45 minutes to put a 30* inclusive edge on my 0561 (ELMAX). That was using the stock edge pro stones (not diamond) same thing with cpm s30v. Both of those steels hold their edge considerably better than 440c.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 293
Yep, I knew I'd be abused for blaspheming the precious super steel. Just my opinion. I have two super steel knives that I have simply given up trying to sharpen on a Lansky until I get a diamond stone. Just don't have the time. I'd rather trade off the edge retention for a quicker touch up. And nothing cuts quite like 1095 high carbon steel. I don't know why, but it just cuts better somehow. It's magic I tell ya.
Get a Spyderco Sharpmaker, The lansky system's stones are terrible.
The sharpmaker was able to reprofile the M390 to 15 degrees per side (from 18 degrees), took about 20 minutes.
Pretty easy to hone too, like 8-10 strokes with the ultrafine and it's done.
The sharpmaker was able to reprofile the M390 to 15 degrees per side (from 18 degrees), took about 20 minutes.
Pretty easy to hone too, like 8-10 strokes with the ultrafine and it's done.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,949
I agree with you. I prefer ease of sharpening to edge holding. I think some of that has to do with the fact I enjoy sharpening my knives so getting an excuse to do it more often is always good to me. Part of it does have to do with the ability to field sharpen without the need for diamonds. 1095 and 440C are some of my favorite steels in fact my go to outdoors knife is my ESEE-3.
Most people dont understand how some can be perfectly happy with "out of date" steels.
Also I would like to add I have tryed "super steels" and always end up going to back to my old knives. This is why I really wish Spyderco would do a run in CPM 154. I find it to be the best of both worlds, easy to sharpen and holds an edge for a good long while. My fixed blades though ill stick to 1095, 52100, and 440C.
Yeah you are right, sorry, just saw the Kershawmike video again. First time I saw it I could of sworn he said both liner/framelock were titanium.
Still I dig the pocket clip being titanium. The linerlock is fine as steel.
May be better but if I want Fit and finish, I will use my sebbie.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
- Messages
- 738
I have a PM2 in M390 (in black) and a ZT 551, the PM2 will see the most use and most time in your pocked in my opinion. there the awsomest knife out. if you can get both, get both if not, get the PM2
