Paranoia towards knives (READ THIS!)

Oct 11, 1998
Sane people, such as you and myself, love knives. We see them as tools, self defense weapons, and just plain useful. However, it seems we are becoming a minority. When my uncle went to school, he always had a knife with him. Teachers and everyone knew, and as long as he didn't mess around with it, no problem. What happened? A boy in Maine got suspended from school for fixing a computer w/ his Micra. People are scared out of thier minds when they see my Voyager clip. Same is happening with guns! I would get expeled if I brought my Micra to school! Is there anything we can do?
The same thing has happened in my area. I'm 31 and live in a rural area. Every kid my age carried some type of knife from grade thru through high school. A "Zero-tolerance" knife policy was instituted in my old high school last year. So, these farm and ranch kids have to leave their knives in the car or at home.
These "zero tolerance laws are oxymoronic and plain deadly to our rights. Part of the trend to make criminals even when no wrongs have been committed. Recall the high school girl last year, who having her time of month took a Tylenol while on school grounds.....she was expelled for violating zero tolerance drug policy. She was an A student.

Hate crime laws, zero tolerance laws are all part of social engineering feel good warm and fuzzy. We live in a lazy "don't make me think" culture and are too willing to believe our elected leaders will do the right thing. We don't wish to bother thinking about the ramifications of new legislation, school board policies, etc. Hence, we have politicians who know how to say what you think you want to hear, but are interested in control, regulation and destroying your inherent rights.

May I suggest that you look into and join the "American Knife & Tool Institute" (AKTI). The newly formed organization to unify the knife user to be able to deal with these sorts of problems. We first must unify to have a louder voice. This org is for knives only. Not guns. We need your support, we need your funds and we need your suggestions.

P.O. Box 68
Burlington, IA 52601-0068

(319) 752-8770
(877) 752-8770 toll free
(319) 752-6114 (FAX)


Jan Billeb is the executive director. Board of regents includes: Les deAsis (Benchmade), CJ Buck (Buck), Walter Gardiner (Imperial Schrade), D'Alton Holder (Custom knifemakers), Jim Wehrs (Gerber), Bob Miller (Pro-Cut), Sal Glesser (Spyderco), Roger Combs is the Communication director.
The goal is to get kids used to completely off-scale draconian "weapons" restrictions - as KIDS. As adults, heavy gun control and similar BS is then seen as normal.

Jim March
The Anchorage School district has also adopted a Zero tolerance weapons policy. This has happened only in the last few years, as I can remember taking small knives to school with minimal problems a few years ago. In Fact we were making knives with the principal's permission in the Metal Shop at Robert Service High School. Now it is to the point that the teachers are no longer allowed to have their own pocketknives. My Dad has to leave his precious Spyderco at home (he is a teacher). I remember Bringing a Chainsaw to school (sparkplug removed) for Halloween, and I did not suffer any disciplinary action. The ASD has gone haywire, and I can only imagine what it is like in other parts of the country.

It is a sad time to be an American. Our representatives only represent themselves, Our President is a liar, we need a permit or a license to exercise any of our rights, and we are not allowed to keep what we earn. Our right to bear armsis limited, and everyone who is not a cop or military is now a second class citizen. The Ministry of Truth (media) filters what we see and know, and Death Squads (swat teams etc.) keep us in line and fearful to speak up. Our government kills those who oppose it, and do it with impunity. Wake up America, it is 1984.

We're seeing a proliferation of "high security" or "safe" zones where everyone is treated as if they were prisoners. Airplanes, courthouses, schools, what next? The shopping mall?

The receptionist in our office was in Istanbul last year, and says that you go through a metal detector to get into the shopping mall there.

Maybe when the schools are completely computerized, they can eliminate those dangrously pointy pens and pencils too!

(biologically improbable expletive deleted)


Zero-tolerence certainly does not make me feel warm and fuzzy.

The simple knowledge of the blanket weapons policy that exists in my surrounding school district (read: preceinct) is almost terrifing. ANY blade of any sort is a weapon. Nail files are weapons. Wallet chains are weapons. Heavy necklaces are weapons. It is a no-no to wear your toolbelt from shop class to the drinking fountain. Cap guns can be confused as weapons and are so treated as such.

As a side note, i heard a rumour about a school trying to push an "all black" rule. That schools colors are black and white...

Geeze, what really p's me off is that these administrators aren't realizing all they are doing is taking self defense away from the law abiding kids while the others don't really give what they say and carry knives

Our school has also buckled down on knives here...fricking come with a key-chain knife thats duller than a club and one inch long and you can get suspended if you don't talk right. I'm not sure how smart it is, but I carry a lockback folder with me anyhow, though i wish i didn't have to go against the rules to do so.

Everywhere i look (knowing where to look), i see tons of students with knives or other weapons...and most are dumbA bg's.

Sal, i'm looking into AKTI.

"I wouldn't mind you being inside my head if you weren't clearly so crazy."

That is my point!

These zero tolerance laws are merely dressing, an illusion that something is being done, and mostly make "criminals" out of normally law abiding people.

If you stab someone, there are laws that deal with that. If you have some "controlled substances" and are caught with them, there are laws that deal with that. When I was in school, if you were caught with illegal drugs, you were expelled. But we could still have aspirin or Tylenol. Now you have to get permission to see the nurse...go down, waste time and miss class.
Think about it...what real and material good do zero tolerance laws do? They are merely policy statements legislated on top of real beneficial laws. Pure window dressing that make new criminals out of innocent people. They only benefit the "powers that be" as lame public relations stunts to show that they have the politically correct mind set.
So when do we see the flood of law suits against knife makers for purposefully making all those dangerous weapons used in "knife-violence?" We appear to be a culture that glorifies violence - see our action/horror movies and even vidio games. Yet many get squemish whenever they see a tiny knife. Interesting contradictions.

Laws dictating blade shape & length, carry modes, zero tolerance regulations - where does it stop? Will be need to buy all our food in bite sized pieces and eat with spoons?

While I live in very urban San Diego we have many parks and access to rural (well almost rural) areas. When your out in these you are out of contact with nearly everything and everybody. I take a knife when I go out and about. While I've yet to encounter any problems or even stares from the public my kids and even wife have voiced concern about my being "armed to the teeth."

Zero tolerance laws are designed to address the growing problems with drugs and violence in our schools. What is sad is that the many suffer because of the few dirtbags that are ruining things for the rest of us. Unfortunatly there is also no such thing as common sense. Common sense would tell you that asprin or a pen knife is not grounds for expulsion. When I went to the pricipals office he would look at my record. He would say "You haven't been in much trouble before so consider this a warning." The same incident may have resulted in suspension if I was a trouble maker. Look at how crazy things can get without common sense:
"I didn't inhale.", "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." It's hard to believe that the president did not know he was having sex! The letter of the law protects the guilty and punishes the innocent. Unfortunatly we do not operate under the intent of the law.
I couldn't agree more. My highschools opinion towards knives is "Total Crap". We have a zero tolerance rule also. And the worst part is that now that knives are illegal t carry everyone assumes that they are dead evil weapons. I wouldn't say there are more than 100 people in my school who don't think all knives are weapons and about 5 people who collect them. There are 3000 people who go to my highschool. These are terrable percentages.

And the worst part isn't that some kid stabbed another kid with his folder either. Something like that has never happened in the history of my school. Its probably because some sheeple parents had the crazy idea that their kid might get killed by a weapon over his lunch money so they took the school to court and won.

One solution to the problem of the politically correct brainwashing that is taking place in most of our public schools today is to talk to your kids about what they are learning in school.I quiz my daughter weekly about what they talk about at school.What does your teacher say about guns?Has your class talked about the president? Check out your kids homework assignments and text books.Listen.Most of all lead by example.My wife and I carry a knife everywhere we go and my daughter knows it.How can people with knives be bad?Mom and Dad carry knives all the time and they`re the good guys.My kid has handled every gun and knife in the house (with proper supervision).She thinks they`re cool!If we`re vigilant we can win.
Well said everyone! I'm on my way to AKTI now. A string needs to be made for it. And everyone needs to remember this: "If we outlaw weapons, on the outlaws will have them!" Another thing on the schools: I can get written up for having a paper clip slitly bent, because "It has a pointy tip and can hurt someone."
I think the *only* hope for turning the school mess around is a concept I've batted around: "Juvenile OC CCW".

Set up a system patterned on adult CCW permits that include training and background check. Make the kiddies spend a few days in a special summer school-type program, make 'em get a statement that they're not "bully types" from two teachers, etc. Make summer-school program a week long to include "basic tactical awareness and techniques", "legality of self defense", etc.

This would definately work on age 12 and up, might be practical as young as 10. It'd make bullies and even adult kidnappers play "gas attack roulette".

It would also be *excellent* training for adult gun-based CCW.

Jim March
Jim: I must disagree with you, respectfully of course. I think the approach to marketing knives to the PTA and the School Board has to be from the standpoint of tools rather than weapons. If a kid can't cut up an apple in the lunch room with a Boy Scout knife, what are the odds of him getting a summer school tactical training seminar and CCW? Shouldn't we start at the beginning?

David Rock
Hmmmm. See, I think CCW (adult gun type) is the *biggest* win RKBA has *ever* had, at least in the 20th century. We can yelp all we want about "gov't permission to excercise a right" and that's true...but the reality is, we now have *hard* *numbers* about how many are armed, how *few* problems it's caused, what's happened to the crime rates, etc. Right? It's an unqualified success; an HCI shill speaking to the CO legislature got her tail handed to her on a platter when the blatantness of her lies on CCW effects elsewhere was revealed.

So let's duplicate that success with kids and pepper spray. Just scale it all down. Once effects identical to what happened among the adults kicks in, the paranoia will drop. The next step will be to drop the handgun and CCW age to 18 (where it should be) for those upgrading from the "juvenile pepper CCW" (with no unjustifiable gassings) to full gun.

Does anybody think I'm making sense here? The sad truth is, until we get the violence levels and paranoia down, pressing for "lethal weapons for kiddies" (as the sheeple see it, to us it's SAKs and Leathermans) isn't gonna fly.

Cure the paranoia first; do that by having actual armed kids NOT cause trouble.

Jim March

I think you're making alot of sense regarding the de-escalation of parnoia. It seems people need almost complete ease of mind regarding weapons before they will even consider letting them(tools of survival) coexist with them in 'their' world.
I think the idea of carefully choosing certain schools and qualified students for training in the use of non-lethal weapon use like OC spray is a great idea. I bet there are quite a few schools(juniorhigh/highschool) that have a martial arts club or group of some sort that could incorporate non-lethal weapon training and awareness into their curriculums or at least invite qualified instructors of such programs to hold seminars at that school under that schools martial arts club banner. Perhaps when this kind thing hits the news and the masses see young people positively focused on self-preservation(using an enhancer or tool) under good supervision, it will open up the possibility for wider acceptance at other schools and maybe ease up on the weapon parnoia for everyone(in time).
I'm sure there are holes in this reasoning somewhere, if someone wants to point them out it would be appreciated.

Vailin Krow,

When a well known private scool here in San Diego (LJ Country Day) started a zero-tolerance program for drugs it was a complete failure and they have given it up. As you said, from your experience on the inside you can see it all goes underground. All the kids are afraid to talk for fear of being expelled. At first the school thought the drug problem was gone! Finally the school figured it out and now they have a chance of knowing what is going on because they have stepped back to a policy of moderation of punishment depending on the circumstances.

Trouble is that despite this success with the drug policy, knives are still thought of as just as evil as the drugs, not as tools with any useful purpose. The same mentality that seeks a zero-tolerance policy proceeds to classify everything anyone could perceive as evil (even the peanut-butter allergy issue!) and put it under the zero-tolerance rules.

[This message has been edited by senpai (edited 27 January 1999).]
Woh ho ho! Two posts in one thread, i think that's a record


Great idea. Makes perfect sense, to us. There's only one glaring promblem i see. Kids are idiots. Not all of them to be sure, but enough of them. And parents think that ALL kids are idiots because of that.

Parents control the school system. And if enough parents have a vision of militant fourth graders then....

Also (i guess this would make it two problems), even the most mature person (at a high school age) can have a pissy day. And what better way to express that than spraying 2mil SHU OC into a ventilation shaft...