Paranoia towards knives (READ THIS!)

Poz: I couldn't Disagree with you more. Your idea of a teenagers fits about 2% of us. Kids are not idiots, they are smarter than old people more than half the time and are more willing to learn about cool things such as knives.

Plus there aren't any people I know who would spray mace into the ventilation system just because of a really bad day.

Jim: I dunno about your idea. The anti-knife setiment is pretty strong. I've been called a psyco more than a few times for collecting knives and for doing a career report on being a custom knife maker.

Sincerely,
Adam
 
What I think it all boils down to is that NOONE wants to teach morals to the children. The parents don't do it at home because they are too busy working, and the schools do not want to do it because of the risk of lawsuit. The result: Miscreants.

For example : Sex ed.. They taught us all about the reproduction process, what it entailed, how to use contraceptives, etc.. There was not ONE word, from the books we read, or from our teachers or speakers, that told us about the ramifications of intercourse as how it would iompact our lives if there was a pregnancy, or how it would affect us socially. Noone said that it was a dish best served between married couples. As a result, Anchorage has one of the greatest percentages of teen pregnancy. It is not uncommon for a wo...girl under 20 to have several children from different fathers. I could go on, but this is about knives..

What needs to happen is (best case scenario) that a parent should stay home with their kids (along with tossing the T.V.). Another good idea is to teach classes from an early age on on what knives/guns are, and how to deal with them. I have taught my Nephew to not touch guns, and to tell his mom or grandparents if he sees one. I showed him what knives can do by slashing up a box, and told him that it could do the same thing to him. When he is older, I will teach him how to use a knife in a responsible manner. Later I will hopefully teach him how to shoot. He is only four now, so I have done well with the basics.

An old friend of mine was fond of telling me that "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing." There have been two generations of Americans raised by the boob tube. Be afraid, be very afraid.
 
Adam,

You seem to have mis-interpreted my post gravely. Sorry for the (insert word meaning not-clear.... ah ha...) un clarity. No, i don't mean that all kids are idiots. That certainly isn't the case at all. However, a lot of them are. It's that simple. There are 300 people in each high school surrounding my area, that have a 3rd grade reading level.

There are maybe 15 people, in my class, that i would currently trust with OC. Period. Maybe i'm from a bad batch. But non with standing, there's certainly enough tails of bad students to prevent Jim's suggestion from ever reaching fruition.

-Poz
 
You know what? Actually giving people of any age some respect, some trust of the type that says "you are considered worthy of packing a weapon" RAISES THEIR RESPONSIBILITY LEVEL.

Treat people like toddlers and don't be shocked when they act like it. Vermont has made a blanket statement that they trust the citizenry to the highest degree possible, and have the lowest crime rate in the US.

In a best-case scenario, the "pepper packers" will form bonds of mutual respect rather like how adult members of the "gun culture" usually view each others. You get a climate where "responsibility is what's cool" versus a "Beavis and Butthead mentality" currently common. If that takes a firm enough hold it might shame the true jackasses into some semblance of stability.

Right now, Bart Simson is seen as a role model. How many here think Jeff Cooper would be a *major* improvement!?

Jim March
 
Yekim and Jim have hit some key words:morals and responsibilities. Who teaches these things to children? Especially though those highly influential years?(TV?) If we miss those years, it gets harder to get kids to see better perspectives as they grow into teens and adults. Poz, you have a legitimate point about not all kids being capable of handling weapons, perhaps only a chosen few students maybe with spotless records and/or excellent grade performance or teacher approvals etc. would qualify to learn, therefore eliminating the 3rd grade highschoolers, possibly.
There are tons of kids most likely in the rural areas who learn to shoot guns, rifles or shotguns as kids. They were 'raised' into responsibility by their parent(s) and other influential people and not 'changed' to be responsible later.
Getting people in the masses to accept things as children like responsible weapon usage will make them more natural for the next generation.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken,

You're very right in the summation that Morals and Responsabilities are the key issues. However, going off of grades and records would be (imho) useless. I've always thought that grades didn't reflect anything except test-taking-skill... So as well as i can figure a case by case would be needed...

Jim,
You're right, i have no argument against that. But it's not me you have to convince (i already was) it's the parents. And the admin..

-Poz
 
Poz,

I agree that the qualifiers I suggested are not very realistic, Many of my responsible friends(in highschool) weren't model students, me included.
I just wanted to see if you'd agree that Jim's proposal is not totally incapable of coming to fruition if only there was a well thought out direction for a proposal that could convince/persuade parents and admin.
It may sound a bit optimistic, but I'm scared to think of the alternative if action is not taken at all. You've brought up good points for me to consider and I appreciate it.

Sorry if I'm dragging this thread too far into the politics direction.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Actually I like the suggestion of school ed on knives/guns. However, in order to be in this class, the requirerment should be perfect record and durn good reputation. There are plenty of people in my school with the IQ of your monitor and I would totally not trust with knives. My knife education began when I was...oh, 6 or 7 in boy scouts. My first knife was given to me on my 8th birthday, so was my first pellet gun. I know how to handle things and always have. Every one should be so lucky.
 
Ooh a fellow student, hmmm...Zero Tolerance. Thats a very big issue here in Berkeley/El Cerrito CA. At my school zero tolerance is enforced to the fullest. Aside from being an all out fashion show, my school also has a good deal of gang violence, drug hustling, and very good academics as well...pretty ironic huh? Anyways it's become routine for students to be checked with metal detectors at my school, which in a way, violates my privacy, but in another way, makes me feel a bit better. It's an all out waste of time for me, i'm very interested in knives as well, but am smart enough to know that high school isn't really the place to bring them. For me, not only are these metal detectors a waste of my time, but kinda embarassing, humiliating, you get the idea. I once was stopped by a security guard for no reason on my way to a class, and he proceeded to ask me questions about drugs & weapons, and used his little hand metal detector on me, finding nothing of course. Not only was this humiliating in front of like 50 students, i was late to my english class, and my teacher happened to be in a bad mood, and i got a detention haha. Zero Tolerance is truly pathetic. I see guns and knives and icepicks at my school pretty often, and definately lots of drugs. It's pretty sad, watching a kid get expelled for possesion of a small SAK knife...not really a weapon if you ask me, but thats just my opinion.

Heres a story for you guys...About a month ago, we were having a party in my Algebra 2/Trig class, and i was asked to bring plastic knives. Fine by me, i stopped at the grocery store before school, bought 2.50 worth of plastic knives and forks, and brought them to school. Well, it must have been my unlucky day...First the bag opened and i dropped at least half of the knives on the ground, so i began to pick them up. If that wasn't bad enough, the umm...less than intelligent security guard came over to me, and began asking me very very stupid questions about the PLASTIC knives. Things like what i was intending to do with them, why i had them with me, why they were on the ground, etc. I tried to remain as polite as possible, and, being a varsity debater, i finally persuaded him to leave me alone. Gosh, such fuss over 50 plastic knives. He said something along the line of, i could cut someone with those...how sad. As far as i've seen at my school, not one student has been stabbed/slashed with a knife. Not one...I have, however, seen many students suspended for having small SAK knives...pretty sad if you ask me.

aaron
 
Poz: Sorry, I miss understood your message. I could agree that some people aren't mature enough to know much about knives but still not many. Maybe I just hang around all the good people
smile.gif
. I'm still scepticle about the knife training thing. It would look pretty bad to show up and know twice what the teacher does. I feel the best way to get opinion changed are to get rid of the zero tolerance rules and set a blade length rule.

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Wow, polite people, what's this world coming to?
smile.gif


Ken,
Good point: (correct me if i'm wrong) Trying to institute forward thinking policies, even if they fail, still lays the groundwork for it eventually...

Adam,
You know, i never even thought about applying a blade length limit, that makes almost perfect sense. It would probobly be pretty strict though, but still enough for the main blade on a SAK.. possibilities..

-Poz
 
On blade lengths: The University of California decided that a blade length of 2.5" is the maximum legal length. Again long enough for most standard SAK's, but not much else. Even my BM leopard cub doesn't pass that test (2.75")

zero tolerance...is a pretty silly stance, especially when it 'never' applies to kids whose parents are willing to light a political fire under the school board and administration

but 'anyknife' panic should certainly be expected in California where I can buy a handgun, but not a balisong, nunchaku, ASP, etc...

JE
 
Jeff:

Good news! On UC campuses the law only prohibits fixed blades over 2.5" (unless they are eating implements). Folders of any size are permitted. Carry your MB Leopard Cub without fear.

Ken
 
Ken: can you confirm chapter and verse on that "unlimited folders in the UC system"?

This is no longer academic for me, I'm about to find out tomorrow if I passed an interview on a job that could take me onto UC property daily.

Jim March
 
Jim:

Here it is...

"Penal Code 626.10. (a) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as
defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this
state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests
or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in
assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this
state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his
or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick,
knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, folding knife with a
blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade, a
taser, or a stun gun, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 244.5,
any instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a
pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring
action, or any spot marker gun, upon the grounds of, or within, any
public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any
of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, is guilty of a public offense,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year,
or by imprisonment in the state prison.
(b) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined
in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a
full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal
government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a
person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or
preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in
assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this
state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his
or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or
knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds
of, or within, any private university, the University of California,
the California State University, or the California Community Colleges
is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state
prison."

Note the difference between sec A and B. On UC campuses you are free to carry your folder - no type of size restrictions.

 
THANK YOU, Ken. *Superb* post.

Do me a favor? There's an old California Knife Law thread on Politics - can you tack this on the end? I'm going to see if Spark will append that entire thread to the "featured articles" list maintained off the front page, right along with Joe Talmadge's FAQs and some knife reviews.

Thanx,

Jim March
 
I carry my large folder on a UC campus, having read that clause after deciphering the legalese, I was pleased to notice that University rules are different than High School.

Having recently come from my teenage years, I have to agree that many (NOT ALL) teenagers are idiots. And, it is the arrogant belief by teenagers that they are NOT idiots and that they have it all figured out, that makes them idiots! I believe the problem is mostly hormonal, but that is from a biologist's view.
Any teens out there reading this, you may be the exception, but give it a few years until you find out that you were wrong about just about everything you were so convinced you "knew" more than your parents about
wink.gif


The problem with a blade length rule is that many gangstas are very crafty with a box cutter. Throw "blade length" out the window. Regulating handle length may work, but a 4 inch handle with a one inch blade is plenty deadly (box cutter). A one inch handle with a one inch blade becomes less than "tactical"
smile.gif


I will say though, that one of my problems with weapons rules, is that the minute you make something an issue, the human species finds a way around the issue. What are they going to do about Pencils? Hand them out in class and then collect them before break? Are they going to have a rule that you can only carry a "dull pencil" because sharp ones are dangerous? When you start regulating weapons, we humans become more creative than before, and next thing you know, everything is a weapon because people who didn't think about it before are now looking around for whatever they can use.
A friend of a friend of mine died a few months ago when his jealous gay lover jammed a pen deeply into his eye. Pens are deadly. What will we do with them? Books are heavy and make good clubs, maybe we should stick to "soft cover" books and break them into volumes so that no individual book is too heavy.

"When sharpened pencils are outlawed, only criminals will have sharpened pencils!"

Silliness.

thaddeus


[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited 05 February 1999).]
 
The police blotter of the local newspaper in my town ran a blurb about a woman who assaulted a relative with a spoon. The victim required stitches, of memory serves. So Thaddeus is right: people who are inclined to hurt others will find ways to do so, regardless of legislation.

David Rock
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top