Pathfinder Certification E-Course

[Miketm]

"field suturing" without extensive experience in austere wound care, setting up a sterile field and recognizing infection is a huge, huge mistake. Matter of fact, it could cost you your life.

 

[kr1]

"field suturing" without extensive experience in austere wound care, setting up a sterile field and recognizing infection is a huge, huge mistake. Matter of fact, it could cost you your life.

All of you guys arguing against field suturing I agree with you 100%. I'll throw my hat into the fray. Its a very bad idea. It is almost impossible to debride and otherwise clean a wound well enough in the field to suture. Not to mention that the people that do surgery are called doctors. It is much better to use butterfly's and tincture of benzoin and allow any infection that comes to be able to drain, rather than trapping it and forcing it into the body where it might become gangrenous and/or become a systemic life threat.

It is, has, and still remains a bad idea. There remains no reason to ever attempt to suture a wound in the field that I have ever seen and there is virtually never anyone in the field equipped, with the material, or training to do it. And those that are trained to do it, usually will refuse. Suturing is almost always cosmetic procedure not a functional one. If it isn't cosmetic, i.e. tendon or nerve damage then you are clearly not qualified. If it is just cosmetic, why risk losing the limb or even death?

Sorry, I got a little carried away. You are all adults capable of making your own decisions. I just am trying to give enough information so that it is an informed decision. :thumbup:

KR

 

[Miketm]

I know that for me, now FOR ME mind you, if an instructor brings up such a technique as "field suturing" , it casts doubt on the validity of their other skills which sucks because I love to learn new things.

 

[heyoka_xVx]

I saw quite some individuals (men, dogs and horses) getting stitched up in less than ideal conditions - none of those suffered any problems afterwards. I would definitely use butterflys, steri strips or what else is available (or normaly nothing at all with this size a cut). My doc gave me the same advice, i'm normally not close to a doc when something like that happens.
What i like about this vid is that he is actually doing and sharing this stuff instead of only talking about it... Everybody that goes into the bush should be able to chose whether a presented skill makes sense to him or not. If not, he should simply stay at home
But lets not drift off into this field suture thing here. Thanks for the advice so far, it's pretty much what i expected - no extensive bashing, some controversy. I think i'll contact him on the details of this course.

 

[wildmike]

From what I've heard in some other threads you may want to contact him quickly. He is in the midst of arranging a deal to do several TV shows over a long period of time. It is likely that will interfere somewhat with his other business.

 

[Iboschi]

I haven't seen the suture episode or tutorial in question. However, I will say that knowing how to do sutures is invaluable. If the $hit hits the fan, and we're all without power or in some kind of apocalyptic state, I would rather people know how than not. I was EMT trained 14 years ago and never pursued the occupation as it didn't mesh with my disposition. However, I am fond of every single man woman and child knowing C.P.R., rescue breathing, and techniques to clear airway obstruction. If I were in an environment where EMSA was unavailable and whomever I was with knew how to stitch me up, I would find that a comfort. However, when real medical resources are available, don't self suture.

 

[beef]

I saw quite some individuals (men, dogs and horses) getting stitched up in less than ideal conditions - none of those suffered any problems afterwards. I would definitely use butterflys, steri strips or what else is available (or normaly nothing at all with this size a cut). My doc gave me the same advice, i'm normally not close to a doc when something like that happens.
What i like about this vid is that he is actually doing and sharing this stuff instead of only talking about it... Everybody that goes into the bush should be able to chose whether a presented skill makes sense to him or not. If not, he should simply stay at home
But lets not drift off into this field suture thing here. Thanks for the advice so far, it's pretty much what i expected - no extensive bashing, some controversy. I think i'll contact him on the details of this course.

I agree in regards to doing stuff rather than just talking about it. But if the technique he recommends is dangerous, it's not good.

This guy teaches others, he's not just some youtube hobbyist. He teaches courses. Personally, I'd prefer my teacher to teach sound skills, rather than questionable skills.

 

[Loosearrow]

I have liked his videos on U Tube. He shares what he knows. As far as stitching up your finger etc. I have done that myself. I also used superglue before it was popular. Kerosene and a rag to clean a wound growning up in the country. He had an opportunity to share something and he did. I haven't seen him squeeze elephant poo and drink the juice or do flips into the water. I have appreciated what he has shared with us. It was free to me and effort for him. I hope it pays off for him. It's what he likes to do. Learn from everyone you can. I don't understand certification. Something to hang on the wall I guess.

 

[kr1]

Let me help with the certifications question.

What they are supposed to be. What they should be. Is a standard. A minimum standard that a person has indicated to a knowledgeable authority (him or herself recognized as a master of a subject) a minimum amount of knowledge and competency in a specific subject or group of subjects. I have certifications and have met standards in all sorts of things. Most of my certifications do not do justice to the knowledge that I have in many of those subjects. The only reason that I have "wasted my time" attaining those certifications is because those certifications are a known quantity to the agencies that I am usually trying to serve (fire, police, EMS, SAR, CERT, Boy Scouts) and it shows those agencies that in some cases, at least initially, have no idea who I am that I have some specific level of competency in those subjects. When they get to know me they are happy to learn I know considerably more than that but the certification gets me in the door and listened to. And besides, some of them DO look good on the wall - I have found them to be real chick magnets.

KR

 

[vector001]

i've met brother canterbury.

he's into (in my opinion) "good enough", and he has a large volume of instructionals. - i think the volume of his stuff and the structure of how he does things might be of value to folks with limited experience especially. - just pick and choose what you want to use for yourself.

if a person just loves wilderness skills, they might like his stuff a lot. i like ron hood's style of instruction better, but brother canterbury really has covered a lot of territory in his instructionals, plus he has had physical meet-ups with students. that might be nice for some folks.

as to the suture thing i saw him do - he had his reasons, and he addressed those in the video that was featured on YouTube. i've closed other people's wounds for similar reasons, but i was trained for minor field surgery, and i did it under protest. i prefer other methods of wound closure, when possible.

HTH.

vec

 

[Loosearrow]

Let me help with the certifications question.

What they are supposed to be. What they should be. Is a standard. A minimum standard that a person has indicated to a knowledgeable authority (him or herself recognized as a master of a subject) a minimum amount of knowledge and competency in a specific subject or group of subjects. I have certifications and have met standards in all sorts of things. Most of my certifications do not do justice to the knowledge that I have in many of those subjects. The only reason that I have "wasted my time" attaining those certifications is because those certifications are a known quantity to the agencies that I am usually trying to serve (fire, police, EMS, SAR, CERT, Boy Scouts) and it shows those agencies that in some cases, at least initially, have no idea who I am that I have some specific level of competency in those subjects. When they get to know me they are happy to learn I know considerably more than that but the certification gets me in the door and listened to. And besides, some of them DO look good on the wall - I have found them to be real chick magnets.

KR

You are right. Forgot about that. I have certifications in health care. Wasn't sure about correspondence courses etc. It also shows you spent your money and are dedicated t what you do. Regards

 

[kr1]

You are right. Forgot about that. I have certifications in health care. Wasn't sure about correspondence courses etc. It also shows you spent your money and are dedicated t what you do. Regards

Yeah, I agree. Getting a cert from a correspondence course could be a little iffy. Not sure exactly what it would be for since I know of no established standard in those subjects. And of course, with a lot of those types of courses, the user will get out of it what they put in. I think that most would agree that wilderness survival and its associated knowledge cannot be exclusively learned from a book or video. You need to experience it, hands on. The knowledge is just the beginning of the training. But even heart surgery you are required to know the talk through first before cracking open a chest and having a mentor nearby would be mandatory. I learned a lot of stuff from books but then trying it out in the field is were you learn some of those people were full of crap or maybe left out some key tidbits of knowledge. Trial and error in small steps so any errors or mis-steps I made were small enough to recover from. At least that is how I learned most of what I know.

One exception I had was a great mentor for the bow drill. Kevin showed me how that worked. It is amazing what a good mentor can do. All the subtle hints I got, particularly about construction of the fireboard and spindle, etc. Someday I'll have a chance to put more time into that.

Again, just some of my random thoughts.

KR

 

[Stormstaff]

As for his self suturing video...not a great idea. I'll just leave it at that.

I saw Rambo do it in First Blood. Does that count as learning?

Sorry for the off topic.

I've watched quite a few of his videos on You Tube and like what I've seen but if I was personally going to pay for learning, I think I would keep saving and try something live person based.