I'm, just getting back into "traditionals" and have been to the for sale forum; have seen a number of folders I have liked but have also seen some I might have liked but they had forced patinas; now to each his own but a natural patina I can understand but vinegar, etc. just makes little sense to me. Yes, I know if I don't like it don't buy and I don't but will listen to the rationale for forcing patina on new knives(or any knives.