PayPal Advice??

RyanW

RyanW

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Mods. I was going to put this in the Exchange section but it really isn't feedback, Please feel free to move if you need to (as if you needed my permission :D). I had two knives listed for sale on my website with PayPal buttons for payment. The same person Hang Zhou bought two knives and payed via PayPal. The address he gave is in Kansas and is unconfirmed. not to big of a deal in my mind at this point...

No other communication, no comments or notes with the payments. So I take the Email On record with PayPal from the payment and try to make contact with the individual and the Email address bounces back.

I called PayPal and asked what risk is involved with me shipping the knives to the address. They say "As long as you have delivery confirmation and the items are delivered you are covered" Is it really that simple?
Ryan
 
Be sure and get signature confirmation,anything I send over 100 bucks get insurance and sig.confirmation.A little bit more trouble for the person recieving the items but your butt is covered.

Stan
 
Depends on how he paid. The truth of the matter is that sellers aren't really covered by Paypal if the other party does a chargeback with their credit card, EVEN if you have proof of delivery. Paypal screwed me over hard. In my case, buyer filed a chargeback using the generic "item not as described," and turns out, you don't even have to prove that, even though I had video, text, and photo documentation, and the buyer even admitted he'd modified the item after receipt. Paypal let the seller keep the item and still tried to stick me with the chargeback amount AND slapped on their fee--again. On a 1500 dollar item, having paypal take their fee out TWICE meant I wasn't dealing with chump change. That's why I don't do business with Paypal any more.

However, if you're only concerned about proof of delivery, just doing delivery confirmation does CYA. I usually include insurance as well.
 
Thanks Stan! I will definitely get Delivery Conf. and Insurance on the Items...

Crimson, That is what I am worried about. But it does sound like you have open communication with your customer. Did they return the merchandise to you? I am sure there are 110+ ways to get screwed over via PayPal. I am just trying to reduce the odds of this being a rip off from the start. Thanks for posting
 
That was several years ago. I pretty much got screwed over. No item returned to me, and I had to pay 200 dollars more than I received to Paypal. Net loss of nearly 2 grand, on a perfectly good custom built airsoft rifle. Which, I found out later, the buyer has now been using for 4 years to great effect.

You can get screwed using paypal no matter HOW you do it, because they just have to pay through paypal with a credit card, and then use the "item not as described" chargeback ploy (instead of filing a dispute on paypal). Any other method, you're usually good. But credit cards, they can file a chargeback, which the customer always wins, and then paypal will stick you with the bill, even though they're supposed to protect you from that kind of dishonesty. That being said, I did have thousands of successful transactions, and you at least can cover yourself from the claim that the item didn't get delivered through delivery confirmation.

And, your work being what it is, I can't imagine anyone not being 100% satisfied when they receive it. So I doubt you have anything to worry about, unless your customer is a real sleaze, and there's very little you can do on your end to prevent that sort of problem.
 
If you can't communicate with him, I think that's a bad sign.


If you ship to an unconfirmed address, that's already a reason for Paypal to charge against you.



I'd think about refunding the payment and forgetting this transaction.
At the very least the buyer will probably email you with a working address.
 
After much thought and several bad experiences by other folks, I've decided not to include paypal buttons on my website or in sales threads. It's just too easy for someone to order multiple items (by mistake or on purpose) wait for you to ship them, then do a chargeback. You're out the product and the money until (if?) it gets resolved. Some makers have been ripped off to the tune of thousands of dollars this way, and it's a real nightmare to fight. In the case I'm thinking of, the buyer is re-selling the knives elsewhere while the maker is trying to get paid, and regardless is out the transaction fees.

Nor do I ship until confirming the address. I once sent a confirmation email to a client with the tracking number, etc, only to have him respond "Oh crap! I've moved and didn't update the address on my PP acc't!" Luckily I was able to get to the drop point I had shipped from (a USPS kiosk in a convenience store) at 10PM that night, talk them into digging the package out of the bin and change it to the correct address. On another occasion I shipped to what I thought was the correct address only to find out the client had recently split up with his wife... that one was my fault... he had sent me the new address but I had forgotten all about it.

Insurance and tracking are just no-brainers. They're not fool-proof, but they're inexpensive. Signature confirmation is a really good idea as well; you can always ask the buyer for their work address to be sure they'll be around when the package shows up.
 
I would lose a lot of sales if I refused to accept PayPal. They're far from perfect but I simply can't afford to just say "screw 'em".
 
Maybe it is nothing and maybe it is everything - but Hangzhou is a Chinese cheap knife company.

The following is mostly for giggles:
If you have doubts about the address being a shipping drop, and the goods being sent to someone elsewhere with no trace, go on Google Street and look at the address. If it appears to be a normal home or business, OK. If it is a Chinese laundry/restaurant or Rent-a-box store, you need to contact the buyer for a more secure transaction by Postal Money Order....Or they can drive over to Utah for local pickup :)
 
well that doesn't make me feel any better! Haha! Maybe I will sit on the sale for a few days and see who tries to contact me!!!?
 
richard thurman said:
screw paypal. postal money order only. they dont bounce and the cant get charge back. problem solved.
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I find that about one third of the time I accept a money order I never get it. A lot of sales depend on timing or momentum and when people have to go get a money order it seems they can lose interest. Often the buyer will just sign up for paypal or use a cc through paypal before they actually get the money order.

As a seller it is always much tougher to sell a knife the second time. Now I generally take money orders from repeat customers. I am a full time knifemaker so getting paid puts food on my table.

RyanW said:
well that doesn't make me feel any better! Haha! Maybe I will sit on the sale for a few days and see who tries to contact me!!!?
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I hope you resolve this! I have been having a lot of the same problems lately.
 
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RyanW said:
well that doesn't make me feel any better! Haha! Maybe I will sit on the sale for a few days and see who tries to contact me!!!?
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Thats what you should do. Wait to see who contacts you and just say you were waiting for a confirmed address. That way you don't loose the sale and you will feel better that you have been contacted.
 
Just a quick comment.
We have a (non paypal) merchant account for processing credit card payments for our wood yard and galleries. I use a seperate account through paypal for my internet wood sales.
This year we have had 2 credit card chargebacks with our merchant account and none with the paypal account.
 
This is a toughy for sure... I sold a knife several months ago, and it was a somewhat similar scenario. In my case they had sent the payment as gift, and I sent an email refunding them and asking to please resend it as payments for goods.... I never got an email back, but they re-sent the money, and I shipped to their unconfirmed address and I haven't heard anything since. Had delivery confirmation and all that... but I never got word from them after seeing the knife was delivered (I sent a follow up email to see if everything was A-OK).

If I were to do it again I would ask for a confirmed address... but that isn't always possible, I had to deal with an unconfirmed address for a couple of years before I had a credit card. Paypal doesn't provide alternate means for address verification for Canadians, but I know there is a process for people in the USA.

Lack of communication is usually a redflag, I honestly don't think I would follow through if put in the same situation again. Too much of a chance to get screwed, regardless of being "Protected" by paypal policies.
 
I hope I don't blow my streak by saying this but....I have done hundreds of transactions through PP and never had a single hiccup.
I take payment any way my customer can get it to me. I always ship priority mail flat rate boxes with full value insurance.
When a customer places a custom order I always get their address, phone # and a deposit.
 
People want immediate gratification. I sometimes offer 2 prices for a knife, one for paypal and one for a money order. 9 times out of 10 clients choose paypal, that way I can mail the knife the next day. They can also use a CC and don't have to make a special trip to the post office.

Most of my sales this year have been with paypal, just be aware of who you are selling to. If your suspicious do your homework before sending out knives or accepting payment.
 
I charge the same for any given knife no matter how it's paid for, except for overseas shipping/customs fees/taxes which obviously cost more, and are the buyer's responsibility. The differences even out when handling, local sales tax, PP fees, waiting for a check or MO, and so forth are factored in.

Daniel Fairly Knives said:
I am a full time knifemaker so getting paid puts food on my table.
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I hear you, brother! When it's a hobby or a way to flip one knife to get another, it's real easy to be picky. When you're sweating the mortgage and trying to make a living on your own work, it's hugely important to make it as convenient as possible for people to get their hands on your product... while still covering your butt.

richard thurman said:
they cant be the only ones out there doing this. try to find someone else.
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Actually, they pretty much are the only game in town. I have looked into other services several times, including competing start-ups that failed miserably (GunPal) and direct merchant accounts from various CC companies and banks (prohibitively expensive for me).

It's part of my job to find ways to run my business efficiently - in part, that means getting paid and getting product out. My wife/office manager and I have an ongoing plan to look for viable alternatives. PayPal is by far the quickest, cheapest, safest and most popular way to accept payments online right now.
 
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