Penalty for backing out of forum knife, after committing?

Agree to order forum knife, then back out after order is made?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 20.8%

  • No

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Not an issue

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Depends

    Votes: 13 54.2%
  • Total voters
    24
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MolokaiRider

MolokaiRider

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Penalized for backing out after committing to purchasing a forum knife?

This poll is to gauge what forum members think is appropriate.
 
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For me, depends on the circumstances. Let's face it...$hit happens. But if it becomes a repeat thing, then that certainly warrants denial of future sales IMO. This year is the first time I ordered one, so don't know how it compares to other year's sales, but one thing I noticed were some new members who committed to buy, and then found out later that they didn't qualify. But guessing your not talking about those cases.
 
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The poll itself is unclear; though your post adds some clarity.
Are you suggesting that backing out should result in never being allowed to order another forum knife?
Or disallowed for a specified amount of time?
Without exception?
 
jlauffer said:
For me, depends on the circumstances. Let's face it...$hit happens. But if it becomes a repeat thing, then that certainly warrants denial of future sales. This year is the first time I ordered one, so don't know how it compares to other year's sales, but one thing I noticed were some new members who committed to buy, and then found out later that they didn't qualify. But guessing your not talking about those cases.
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For me personally, communicating is key. If you commit and you are unable to follow through, it would be a show of good faith to those who are spending time, effort, and resources to let them know.

Those who commit and do not qualify can be screened ahead of time.

This year moved really quick, so I don’t think we can use this as the end all to the conversation, but as a data point to compare to previous years.

One thing that has been pretty neat, is that the forum has been pretty keen on picking up any gaps.
 
hhmoore said:
The poll itself is unclear; though your post adds some clarity.
Are you suggesting that backing out should result in never being allowed to order another forum knife?
Or disallowed for a specified amount of time?
Without exception?
Click to expand...

You are correct on the poll being unclear. I’ll see if I can adjust it.
 
I think it’s poor form to commit to something and then back out last minute.

That being said I understand life happens (emergencies, health, job loss, etc) and there are exceptions though. Maybe not a permanent ban from buying but a 1 year penalty (obviously again depending on the circumstance)?

I voted for wood (I’m not a huge fan of rams horn) but I still followed through and bought one.

I’m just speculating but if it were a “sought after” GEC model, you wouldn’t have that many people not honoring their commitment.
 
To be clear - I think it sucks that people don't honor their commitment...especially since Mike has to front the money based on the order he places (and he doesn't profit from the forum knives)...
However, there were a few problems that I noted:
- There were people that backed out while the commitment poll was still active; but there was no way to remove their "vote" from the poll
- One guy that people were coming down on didn't enter a commitment in the poll. He did make a post saying he was in; but that was 2 days after the poll was closed, so he didn't actually count in the number on which Mike based his contract with Viper.

Yes, this year happened quickly; the commitment poll was short lived, and it wasn't clear that orders would have to be placed/paid in such short order. I suspect that some people were just caught ill prepared. Speaking for myself - though I'm likely not the only one in this situation - my income has taken a sizeable hit due to virus related issues. (I was never out of work; but my paychecks have been well below my norm for 5.5 months now...and I work in healthcare.) I'm much more careful about my purchases than I used to be; but it's easy to get excited - participate out of habit and/or desire - then consider the impact, and accept that it's just a bad idea...or face a bill that wasn't anticipated.
 
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Yes, this year was unique in how quickly things moved.

It is also during a time in which people are facing hardships due to the pandemic.

I think in general, it would be difficult to draw hard lines to penalize anyone.

But as mentioned, it’s in poor form to commit then back out after the ball is rolling and time/money is invested.
 
This is my first time participating in the forum knife buy here so my opinion may not carry the weight of others.

If backing out goes unchecked I could see it leading to a deposit, pay in full up front, or doing away with it all together.

I do consider these circumstances extra ordinary but life always happens. I just hate those who invested time, energy, and money for the benefit of others to end up getting short changed. I could go along with banning them from participating next year and having public feedback left for them in GBU.
 
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I cast a vote of “depends” on this issue. If it’s a clear back out scenario..... ‘I’ll take it’ then cold feet or buyers remorse.... IMO ‘should’ be some sort of infraction. But how do you judge individual circumstances and enforce?

Really if you make a rule that states personal hardship makes all forgiven, then the worst offenders will just make up stories of personal hardship. If a member makes a habit of being that guy, it’ll show in his ratings and hopefully others will choose not to deal with that person.

Really, our friendly community depends on buyers and sellers all committing to a personal policy of honesty and good intentions. If we want to continue that good spirited environment, unfortunately, we will be occasionally susceptible to those who are not honest and well intentioned, or maybe those just being a little impetuous and making poor decisions.

long winded post made slightly shorter.... I think a hard and fast rule saying “you back out, you’re out” would be against what our community here is about. Besides, when someone makes a habit of being an a-hole, we do a pretty good job of ganging up and drumming him out.
 
A ridiculous notion. How can you penalize someone who is essentially anonymous, has posted on a thread that makes no promise that a knife will even be delivered, and has no money at stake?

A vote in a headcount thread isn't a commitment.

The dealer made no commitment that knives would be forthcoming. This is in no way a slam against CK, just a statement of fact.

I understand the idea that you'd like to believe in some kind of honor here, really I do. But unless you require a deposit to vote, or something like, there's nothing that can be done.

I'm grateful that a 2020 knife is coming. I haven't been here as long as most of you, but I'm continually amazed at how civilized this place really is. There are always people whose circumstances change, or have to do the right thing by their family before buying a knife. There are always people who over participate. There are always goofballs. But, in the end these things always seem to come together. It may not be especially elegant, but it works.

Lets face it, the forum can't even police its 'no flippers' rule. Heck, last month we saw a Forum knife on the exchange go for over twice its original 2018 cost. How are they going to penalize empty promises?
 
dsutton24 said:
A ridiculous notion. How can you penalize someone who is essentially anonymous, has posted on a thread that makes no promise that a knife will even be delivered, and has no money at stake?

A vote in a headcount thread isn't a commitment.

The dealer made no commitment that knives would be forthcoming. This is in no way a slam against CK, just a statement of fact.

I understand the idea that you'd like to believe in some kind of honor here, really I do. But unless you require a deposit to vote, or something like, there's nothing that can be done.

I'm grateful that a 2020 knife is coming. I haven't been here as long as most of you, but I'm continually amazed at how civilized this place really is. There are always people whose circumstances change, or have to do the right thing by their family before buying a knife. There are always people who over participate. There are always goofballs. But, in the end these things always seem to come together. It may not be especially elegant, but it works.

Lets face it, the forum can't even police its 'no flippers' rule. Heck, last month we saw a Forum knife on the exchange go for over twice its original 2018 cost. How are they going to penalize empty promises?
Click to expand...
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You make some good points. The above is what makes it seem as the commitment is indeed, a commitment to buy.

I suppose the work Mike has done is in good faith that this is a representation of how many we Forumites will purchase.

I do agree that penalizing would be challenging.

My biggest concern is that we don’t burn bridges for future offerings, and to encourage those who put in the work to get them together.
 
Also, to be clear, Mike made this work and had found solutions to any logistical challenges this year.

I want to reiterate that it’s important to compare all years prior as well.
 
I would just like to say that I TOTALLY misunderstood the situation before getting up on my soap box. Although most of what I said kinda rings true, I thought we were talking about those guys who post “I’ll take it” then back out on regular old individual knife sales. So take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

That being said I understand where the seller is coming from. As a sheath maker I make things all the time on request and hope that the buyer comes though with money at shipping time. I haven’t been burned yet, but I’m sure it’s coming some day.
 
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