Penalty for backing out of forum knife, after committing?

[dsutton24]

...

My biggest concern is that we don’t burn bridges for future offerings, and to encourage those who put in the work to get them together.

I agree fully.

The dealers who take on this challenge deserve our thanks and admiration. I know the tradition has been that they don't make any money on these projects. I really believe that should change. It must be a colossal headache, not to mention a significant risk should the numbers fall short. These guys should make a few bucks for their trouble.

 

[Barman1]

I didn't realize the early poll was an actual commitment, but apparently I voted for two.
So, off to the site I went to place my order for two.
Gotta keep my word.
That, and it's going to be a nice knife, win-win.

 

[Eli Chaps]

I really think that a part of the problem was the speed. While I understood that if I clicked commit, it should mean that I was ready to drop $120 right away, maybe not everyone did and made an assumption they'd have a couple/few weeks to pay. But when the order time was right away, I would like to think that a lot of those folks on the list just weren't prepared. I think some of them just weren't checking in daily either.

I don't know how you police a person's intent or good will and I wouldn't want to judge someone off just that one occurrence. It might serve as a learning experience. The only way to do anything somewhat fair would be to keep a list and watch for repeats.

The bottom line is, that is an issue for Spark, the mods, and the providers to ponder. We general members can't be rallying on their behalf.

I didn't commit to this year's knife as it doesn't trip my trigger, but I very much appreciate what Mike is doing so to show my support for that, my commitment is that my next purchase will be from him.

Perhaps those who could not follow through on their commitment could do the same when finances allow.

 

[knifeswapper]

I may be the world's worst communicator; so I definitely could have hashed out more details as the process unfolded. And, if time allows, let the process draw out over a month or so. But, to be fair, last year everyone had several months to work out the finances and we came up shorter on fulfilled commitments than we did this year.

But, I do reservations. I have developed a site to try and act on people making (and missing) reservations. One thing I have learned is that these"polls/reservations" provide a great estimate; but that is all. Generally the count is relatively close. You may have one fall out; but you will have a couple more wanting in. But it seems to generally even out. Thus, I surely needed the data from the "Count" poll; but did not consider it final.

So, on Thursday I got on the horn with Viper and hashed out a plan to where I can give them a good count for an order they were making as soon as we disconnected. I had them order me extra sets of amboyna burl (for a gp run) such that if needed we could pull off the ram from any extras and leave the blade etch off. This would let me follow the guidelines of no extras, and get Viper an order before my count was definite.

Our orders all got cut before "holidays" and it is all on track.

Now, to answer the question generally. These are exactly the decisions that have to be made on our Early Reserves System. So my take is that if a commitment is missed, there needs to be some communication - but unless it becomes habitual there need not be any penalties. Most of the time it is an email going to spam or surprise financial burdens. Every once in a while there are those that speak for something without any intent to buy, or those that speak for several with the plan of picking only one later on. These end up being habitual and can be remedied once obvious. But the best policy is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until it is blatantly obvious it is no longer deserved.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

If we do not enforce the death penalty then everyone will think we are weak.

 

[bigsurbob]

I said depends. It should be up to the seller on a case by case basis. Because S does happen, as stated earlier. I've never reneged on a deal, and don't plan to. But if I ever found myself having to back out, I'd offer the seller a few bucks just to stay off the naughty list. In the end, no transaction took place. The seller is just back to square one.

 

[Jsega51]

For the hang em and let them rot crowd, that initial “count thread poll” was pretty ambiguous on if it was a solid commitment for the number of knives you definitely wanted or not. The first post calls it a commitment poll but a few pages later in the thread, there’s posts from Mike that say this:

“I would like to know Wednesday if we made it or not. We still have to get the final say from Spark and start ironing out details before it is a for sure "go".”

“Nah, we'll figure up the final qualifications and take orders if we get the go-ahead. Just wanted to make sure we had enough names to get the ball rolling.”

“This thread was just for the poll. We are not counting "In" posts on this thread. Once we get the go-ahead we will have a purchase thread.”


To me, it didn’t seem like the hard lined commitment thread like we’ve had in the past, but a thread to gauge how close/far the numbers would get, especially with a choice of “more than three”. How many is that equal to? Seems like a blind commitment to me, could be 4 knives, could be 11. Again, another reason why the poll didn’t seem like the actual order poll that we are used to, but a thread to make sure the number of knives wasn’t 175, meaning there wasn’t enough interest to make the order.

So, I voted for 2 figuring I’d see which one I liked and would most likely give the other away. That was my estimate, in the poll designed to get the estimated number of knives for the order.

When I had logged on the forum and saw that the order thread was up and my name was on the list of unpaid orders, I took a step back and said “what the hell?”. How did the estimate and estimate poll become a hard lined commitment?

I thought the order thread would be the true commitment as it has been in the past, especially the last couple years where you had to post “I’m in for x” (x =the number you wanted) and then the order link was sent later. (See quote above again where it says the poll thread was just a poll and they aren’t counting “in” and a purchase thread would come later).

So with all that confusion, throwing a few thousand in unexpected repairs to my truck, now having to pay for knives that I didn’t think were a hard lined commitment from a thread created prior to Sparks approval of the knife in the first place, I withdrew because of the shit timing, and quick and confusing circumstances.

However, I did still buy one, just not the 2 that I estimated I would buy. If I deserve to be penalized, go ahead.

 

[Quiet]

As someone who backed out from purchasing two knives (and am not ashamed of it), I'll say that I didn't like doing it, but I did it anyway. The fact is, I initially signed up for two, and then a short time later that same day (IIRC), I edited my comment to state that I only wanted one (which I'd purchased as soon as they link was live, but was still called out as being someone who said I'd take two). The poll however, was locked, so I was unable to edit that. I can admit it, I also didn't realize how quickly all this was going to happen, and had purchased other knives in that timeframe. I don't appreciate sudden timeframes on something that was just an idea five days before. Now, suddenly there's all this talk about honor and "people need to keep their word!". I am probably not the only one who didn't expect that five or six days later, the money would be immediately needed (during a Pandemic where some folks are probably on reduced hours, or may have just been laid off within the last two weeks, but nah, let's slag people and imply they're being dishonorable instead).

I did end up sending Mike a PM (which he didn't respond to, understandably he's probably been very busy) stating that I would purchase an additional knife if that would help the order happen. As he was able to get the order done, I haven't followed up, nor do I feel any obligation at this time to purchase additional knives.

I would daresay that you'd probably have seen this same issue in years past if there was a mere week between the final poll and when the money was required, with a hard deadline of that Friday, because Viper was going to be on vacation or whatever for the two weeks following. (shrug) As is, I'm in good standing on this forum, and don't foresee being locked out of future BF Knife sales runs because of the poor timing of this year's.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Thanks to all those who chimed in, I appreciate the input and thoughts.

I like that our community has the fluidity to be self governing, and address any potential hang ups or snags.