I have been thinking a lot lately about knives and how they are perceived by society in general. For me as an office worker living in an urban environment in western Europe, this means that pretty much the only knives that are acceptable, are smallish pen knives. I've have found that even the 84mm SAK's get the 'looks' from colleagues. Luckily in my day to day life, I can get by easily with a small knife as most of my cutting needs are for opening a box etc. I realize that I don't live a mid-20th-century rural life on some French farm that might require a heavy duty knife, but a 21st century life in urbania. Has anyone else experienced this feeling that they are somehow restrained in what to carry because of society and also realize that there is not much need for anything but a small knife because of the life you're living?
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Perception and needs
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ferider
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Interesting question. The following belief is coming from a European, who has lived in the US for 30 years now, but goes back to Europe (Germany, France and Switzerland) quite a bit. And I've carried a knife since I was 6.
Knives are something really old and ingrained in our psyche, they can be toys, tools, or weapons. People mostly react to YOU, not the object. If you behave in a way that people think you have a weapon or a toy, people will react negatively to that. If you use a knife as something completely normal for a purpose, most people around you will not even raise an eye brow.
Of course there are knife laws, so you have to know your environment. But say, using a Buck 110 (strictly speaking illegally) in a Bavarian beer garden to cut a radish, or using a 14cm Laguiole in a French restaurant to cut your steak, or in a French office to cut an apple or open boxes - people will pretty much ignore you / accept it if you are "cool"/confident the way you do it. Of course, you can't run around with a Machete in these environments, but you can use something that people know the look of, or - on the opposite end - something that looks completely weird to them; like a Spyderco PM2, which then causes them to be surprised first, but then think "oh, that's just a knife and a weird looking one at that".
Bottom line is they react to you, not the knife. Don't play with your knife, don't show it off; just use it. And know your settings.
Knives are something really old and ingrained in our psyche, they can be toys, tools, or weapons. People mostly react to YOU, not the object. If you behave in a way that people think you have a weapon or a toy, people will react negatively to that. If you use a knife as something completely normal for a purpose, most people around you will not even raise an eye brow.
Of course there are knife laws, so you have to know your environment. But say, using a Buck 110 (strictly speaking illegally) in a Bavarian beer garden to cut a radish, or using a 14cm Laguiole in a French restaurant to cut your steak, or in a French office to cut an apple or open boxes - people will pretty much ignore you / accept it if you are "cool"/confident the way you do it. Of course, you can't run around with a Machete in these environments, but you can use something that people know the look of, or - on the opposite end - something that looks completely weird to them; like a Spyderco PM2, which then causes them to be surprised first, but then think "oh, that's just a knife and a weird looking one at that".
Bottom line is they react to you, not the knife. Don't play with your knife, don't show it off; just use it. And know your settings.
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I have a hobby farm and I need serious cutting power daily. Serrated edge Caribbean, Military, Native Chief, parangs, machetes, hatchets, axes, saws, I use them all.
But when I go to town I only carry gents folders. Chaparral, small Sebenza, Alox SAK, SwissCards (but, TBH also a full tang knife in my backpack
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I also have a third set of small hatchets, saws and knives for bushcraft, that are all fixed blade, mostly Bark River, Mora, Hultafors and Condor.
Plus beaters, Hultafors GK.
I don't feel restrained, because I am frugal and rarely eat out or use a knife in a public space, and when I do I am aware of my surroundings and try to respect the personal space of others. If there is no other way, communication is the best. "Excuse me, is it okay if I use my knife to dislodge this pebble from my shoes?" etc.
But when I go to town I only carry gents folders. Chaparral, small Sebenza, Alox SAK, SwissCards (but, TBH also a full tang knife in my backpack
.I also have a third set of small hatchets, saws and knives for bushcraft, that are all fixed blade, mostly Bark River, Mora, Hultafors and Condor.
Plus beaters, Hultafors GK.
I don't feel restrained, because I am frugal and rarely eat out or use a knife in a public space, and when I do I am aware of my surroundings and try to respect the personal space of others. If there is no other way, communication is the best. "Excuse me, is it okay if I use my knife to dislodge this pebble from my shoes?" etc.
Shorttime
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Yes. But the fact that knives are no longer a survival tool for us townies, means we can make our daily carry decisions on the basis of "want" AND "need".
The Alox Electrician is my weekday carry, but I have an entire truck of tools to back it up, and I can get contractors with even heavier equipment if the problem is serious.
Weekends mostly find the A G Russell Medium Barlow in my pocket. It's light, thin, classy enough to fit in most anywhere, and a long way from the kind of knives that I started with.
If I'm going into what could be a very non-permissive environment, I'll take the Leatherman Skeletool CX. It gives me other tool options, but most important, it bends people's perception, because it's not a knife, it's a multitool (with a knife blade)!
The Alox Electrician is my weekday carry, but I have an entire truck of tools to back it up, and I can get contractors with even heavier equipment if the problem is serious.
Weekends mostly find the A G Russell Medium Barlow in my pocket. It's light, thin, classy enough to fit in most anywhere, and a long way from the kind of knives that I started with.
If I'm going into what could be a very non-permissive environment, I'll take the Leatherman Skeletool CX. It gives me other tool options, but most important, it bends people's perception, because it's not a knife, it's a multitool (with a knife blade)!
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Quite some time ago I began buying and carrying the knives that I want, as I have more knives than any one person could ever need. When working and dealing with clients I use a multitool if something needs to be cut, as that keeps things socially appropriate, but otherwise I only restrict my carry by the legalities that apply and otherwise enjoy my hobby without bothering anyone and I find that they don't bother me when I do.
eveled
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A Buck 110 is as small as I’m willing to go for actual edc.
If they have a problem it’s their problem not mine.
If an actual LEO got involved he would find I’m also legally carrying a .357 or .45 too. So the question of my knife being a weapon is moot.
ferider
makes good points about being non chalant about it. The way you are dressed and act give a first impression that will be hard to overcome.
If they have a problem it’s their problem not mine.
If an actual LEO got involved he would find I’m also legally carrying a .357 or .45 too. So the question of my knife being a weapon is moot.
ferider
makes good points about being non chalant about it. The way you are dressed and act give a first impression that will be hard to overcome.
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It's kind of a Catch-22 situation up here in Canada.
Concealed carry is illegal, so even having a folder with pocket clip MAY be an issue and up to interpretation by the police and courts, depending upon how much of the knife is visible above your pocket.
What is NOT illegal is open carry. Meaning I could strap a machete on my back or hip and as long as it is visible that is perfectly legal. Therein lies the rub. I would love to carry any one of my largish fixed-blade knives (Busse, TOPS, Becker, etc.) on my hip daily. While perfectly legal, the sheeple would be phoning the police every two seconds if they saw me walking down Main Street with a combat/survival-type fixed blade on my hip, however. And I don't want to play that game and the hassle that would go with it.
So I reluctantly carry a folder in my pocket. Never flash it, and of course it is a TOOL if ever questioned by anyone. Even a SAK gets some strange looks from people now and then.
A multi-tool is probably the most innocuous choice of edged tools in the eyes of most of the uneducated/un-enlightened flock. This makes me sad on so many levels.
Concealed carry is illegal, so even having a folder with pocket clip MAY be an issue and up to interpretation by the police and courts, depending upon how much of the knife is visible above your pocket.
What is NOT illegal is open carry. Meaning I could strap a machete on my back or hip and as long as it is visible that is perfectly legal. Therein lies the rub. I would love to carry any one of my largish fixed-blade knives (Busse, TOPS, Becker, etc.) on my hip daily. While perfectly legal, the sheeple would be phoning the police every two seconds if they saw me walking down Main Street with a combat/survival-type fixed blade on my hip, however. And I don't want to play that game and the hassle that would go with it.
So I reluctantly carry a folder in my pocket. Never flash it, and of course it is a TOOL if ever questioned by anyone. Even a SAK gets some strange looks from people now and then.
A multi-tool is probably the most innocuous choice of edged tools in the eyes of most of the uneducated/un-enlightened flock. This makes me sad on so many levels.
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Fortunately, I live in what is still a relatively free part of the USA. Around here, walking around in 5.11's or cargo pants / shorts, carrying a concealed firearm and a pocketknife hardly raise eyebrows. (Open carry is a thing here, but most folks are sensible enough not to.)
I just carry what I want. I'll admit, the more civilized folk might be scandalized if I carried something overly large, but I make a habit of not displaying tools unnecessarily and try to consider the environment I'll be visiting.
I might look askance at someone I don't know who is acting in an odd manner carrying a large-ish blade myself. So...there's that.
I just carry what I want. I'll admit, the more civilized folk might be scandalized if I carried something overly large, but I make a habit of not displaying tools unnecessarily and try to consider the environment I'll be visiting.
I might look askance at someone I don't know who is acting in an odd manner carrying a large-ish blade myself. So...there's that.
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I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, because we need to make this point to people in order to protect our knife rights for the future.
We must point out to people that frown on knives and consider carrying a knife in today's society to be uncivilized, that theirs is the odd stance throughout the entirety of human existence until only the past few generations. That the edged tool, aside from the harnessing of fire, was perhaps one of the most important breakthroughs in the history of humanity, to the extent that it shaped our evolution in to the species we have become. This leads to the logical conclusion that without knives, there would be no civilization for one to be uncivilized in by carrying a knife. If they cannot follow that logic, then as pointed out above, it is their problem. However I feel it necessary to politely but bluntly point out to these people that we are not weirdoes for carrying knives, and that their stance taken into a wider perspective is, frankly, ridiculous. I refuse to compromise on this issue and restrain my rights because a large portion of society holds a view that is childish.
We must point out to people that frown on knives and consider carrying a knife in today's society to be uncivilized, that theirs is the odd stance throughout the entirety of human existence until only the past few generations. That the edged tool, aside from the harnessing of fire, was perhaps one of the most important breakthroughs in the history of humanity, to the extent that it shaped our evolution in to the species we have become. This leads to the logical conclusion that without knives, there would be no civilization for one to be uncivilized in by carrying a knife. If they cannot follow that logic, then as pointed out above, it is their problem. However I feel it necessary to politely but bluntly point out to these people that we are not weirdoes for carrying knives, and that their stance taken into a wider perspective is, frankly, ridiculous. I refuse to compromise on this issue and restrain my rights because a large portion of society holds a view that is childish.
In many cases where people react negatively towards a knife, I believe that what they are really bothered by is the idea of a person carrying a knife, and not the knife itself. After all, who doesn't have knives in their kitchen? It doesn't make sense that a person would be bothered by a pocket knife, and yet not be the least bit bothered by the much larger knives in their kitchen.
I think the idea of a person carrying a knife seems particularly threatening to some people. I think for many people, carrying a knife is something a criminal/dangerous person would do.
Of course if someone pulls out a bowie knife at the mall food court to cut their burrito in half, or pulls out something like a Cold Steel XL Espada to open their mail at the office, then yeah, I can understand people having a bad reaction to both the person carrying the knife, and the knife itself. Some knives do have a "scary" appearance.
As for myself (resident of California, USA), I do what I've always done- I carry what I think best serves my needs, and I carry what I like. I don't involve other peoples feelings, perceptions, or possible negative reactions into the process. But don't get me wrong, I'm not of the attitude "I don't give a rats ass what others think, I'll do whatever I damn well want!", I just don't worry about it, and I don't see the point in trying to please the rest of the world around me, especially since I've heard plenty of stories of people reacting negatively to knives as harmless and innocent looking as Swiss Army knives.
Furthermore, I don't worry about other peoples reactions because I always behave discreetly and responsibly with my knives. I'm 51, and I've been carrying knives since I was in grade school (carried knives in grade school too), and what I have NEVER done is make a big show out of using a knife, or play with a knife in front of others, or do anything else with a knife that would give a reasonable person cause for concern. As for unreasonable people, well, I can't live my life trying to please them, because there's no pleasing them.
This has been my philosophy, and my practice, for over 4 decades, and I haven't experienced a single negative reaction from anyone yet. So I guess I must be doing it right
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I think the idea of a person carrying a knife seems particularly threatening to some people. I think for many people, carrying a knife is something a criminal/dangerous person would do.
Of course if someone pulls out a bowie knife at the mall food court to cut their burrito in half, or pulls out something like a Cold Steel XL Espada to open their mail at the office, then yeah, I can understand people having a bad reaction to both the person carrying the knife, and the knife itself. Some knives do have a "scary" appearance.
As for myself (resident of California, USA), I do what I've always done- I carry what I think best serves my needs, and I carry what I like. I don't involve other peoples feelings, perceptions, or possible negative reactions into the process. But don't get me wrong, I'm not of the attitude "I don't give a rats ass what others think, I'll do whatever I damn well want!", I just don't worry about it, and I don't see the point in trying to please the rest of the world around me, especially since I've heard plenty of stories of people reacting negatively to knives as harmless and innocent looking as Swiss Army knives.
Furthermore, I don't worry about other peoples reactions because I always behave discreetly and responsibly with my knives. I'm 51, and I've been carrying knives since I was in grade school (carried knives in grade school too), and what I have NEVER done is make a big show out of using a knife, or play with a knife in front of others, or do anything else with a knife that would give a reasonable person cause for concern. As for unreasonable people, well, I can't live my life trying to please them, because there's no pleasing them.
This has been my philosophy, and my practice, for over 4 decades, and I haven't experienced a single negative reaction from anyone yet. So I guess I must be doing it right
.
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Where in Canada are you? Non-prohibited knives are regulated by municipal governments so there is not one flat out rule for the whole country.
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I find that I carry a piece of hard use/fidget jewelry in one pocket and my "civilized" cutter in my other.
Case in point, I just bought a Microtech Hawk. It's a big side opening knife with a hawkbill profile sporting a 4" blade that hammers out with a THWACK. It's badass and I love it and I have used it for pretty much every cutting chore around the home and office the last couple of days. However, when a customer comes in or if I need to cut something on the jobsite in front of them, I break out my leatherman. I don't think that them getting nervous around a big blade is stepping on my freedoms. IMHO, part of having freedom is understand discretion and doing our part to make sure that everyone has their own level of comfort not just OUR personal flavor of freedom.
Anyway, most people around here wouldnt flip out about me using a large automatic. They know me, and most would probably find it to be a pretty cool knife. I just try to be mindful of professionalism when Im on the job.
Case in point, I just bought a Microtech Hawk. It's a big side opening knife with a hawkbill profile sporting a 4" blade that hammers out with a THWACK. It's badass and I love it and I have used it for pretty much every cutting chore around the home and office the last couple of days. However, when a customer comes in or if I need to cut something on the jobsite in front of them, I break out my leatherman. I don't think that them getting nervous around a big blade is stepping on my freedoms. IMHO, part of having freedom is understand discretion and doing our part to make sure that everyone has their own level of comfort not just OUR personal flavor of freedom.
Anyway, most people around here wouldnt flip out about me using a large automatic. They know me, and most would probably find it to be a pretty cool knife. I just try to be mindful of professionalism when Im on the job.
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Being a good ambassador on behalf of our community, (be it knives or firearms), is never a bad idea...and may help positively influence folks.
There's a time and place for obstinacy and recalcitrance...but personally, I prefer to start on low heat and only increase as necessary. Worked during interrogations also. It's easy to raise the temperature...harder to bring it back down.
Hearts and minds.
There's a time and place for obstinacy and recalcitrance...but personally, I prefer to start on low heat and only increase as necessary. Worked during interrogations also. It's easy to raise the temperature...harder to bring it back down.
Hearts and minds.
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I was born and raised in a northern city whose name shall not be mentioned. During my time, it was simply not necessary to carry a knife. You might see a gentleman with a tiny clipper on his watch chain that he used to cut the end of his cigar, but if some guy had a folder in a pouch on his belt, it looked kind of "showy." If I need a tool, I can get a tool. I don't have to carry it around with me on my belt, and I'm not in the bush trying to "survive." (Usually, I'm looking at my watch and thinking about where I can find a dry martini at 5:30 p.m.) It is also true that I live in a violent and well-armed country. That said, if I ever get into a situation where I "need" a knife, then things have gotten way out of hand, and I'm going to need more luck than knife to get out from under it. Lastly, I work at a place where all weapons are prohibited. By that I mean that, if it is discovered that you are armed, you will be spending time in a room that is decorated in cinderblock and steel bars. No exceptions, no excuses.
To the notion that we all ought to carry a 4.5-in. Kephart on our belts no matter what because the edged tool was essential to the evolution of civilization, I would simply point out that we're civilized. Most of us go into a McDonalds to buy a hamburger, not to hunt down and kill a squirrel. It's good to be civilized. It allows me to converse with people like all of you.
Shorttime
: That A.G. Russell Medium Barlow is a cutie. I'm going to have to study up on A.G. Russell.
To the notion that we all ought to carry a 4.5-in. Kephart on our belts no matter what because the edged tool was essential to the evolution of civilization, I would simply point out that we're civilized. Most of us go into a McDonalds to buy a hamburger, not to hunt down and kill a squirrel. It's good to be civilized. It allows me to converse with people like all of you.
Shorttime
: That A.G. Russell Medium Barlow is a cutie. I'm going to have to study up on A.G. Russell.People who don't carry knives tend to view them as weapons that's just how they are. I live in a Canadian urbanisa and look around before whipping my knife out.
You're right about the interpretation part. Concealed should be changed to disguised because that's what it's really for. Knives that disguised to look like credit cards or inside of canes. Those are concealed weapons not folding knives inside a pocket.
It's federal. You would be charged under the Canadian criminal code. Municipalities can pass addition bylaws for within their jurisdictions.
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I completely understand discretion, and my point above was not to say that I seek confrontation or contention. Quite the contrary. In my everyday life I'm as cool and easy-going as can be. I'm polite, I try to sacrifice my comfort and defer to the needs of others, hold the door for old ladies, stop to let pedestrians cross, let the other guy out in traffic with a friendly wave, return my cart, etc. I have no desire whatsoever to cause any distress or discomfort to any other human being.
My point is that, as a principle, I am vehemently opposed to the idea of judging others by the items they choose to possess rather than their actions.
My point is that, as a principle, I am vehemently opposed to the idea of judging others by the items they choose to possess rather than their actions.
Shorttime
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I was born and raised in a northern city whose name shall not be mentioned. During my time, it was simply not necessary to carry a knife. You might see a gentleman with a tiny clipper on his watch chain that he used to cut the end of his cigar, but if some guy had a folder in a pouch on his belt, it looked kind of "showy." If I need a tool, I can get a tool. I don't have to carry it around with me on my belt, and I'm not in the bush trying to "survive." (Usually, I'm looking at my watch and thinking about where I can find a dry martini at 5:30 p.m.) It is also true that I live in a violent and well-armed country. That said, if I ever get into a situation where I "need" a knife, then things have gotten way out of hand, and I'm going to need more luck than knife to get out from under it. Lastly, I work at a place where all weapons are prohibited. By that I mean that, if it is discovered that you are armed, you will be spending time in a room that is decorated in cinderblock and steel bars. No exceptions, no excuses.
To the notion that we all ought to carry a 4.5-in. Kephart on our belts no matter what because the edged tool was essential to the evolution of civilization, I would simply point out that we're civilized. Most of us go into a McDonalds to buy a hamburger, not to hunt down and kill a squirrel. It's good to be civilized. It allows me to converse with people like all of you.
If "alphabet soup" steel and "made in China" are things you try to avoid, then A G Russell may not have a lot that is to your taste. They do their own quality control though, so you're getting good value for the money.
I like the looks of their Barlow pattern, and I'm not real choosy about my steel. But Bladeforums is a big tent, and there are people here who want those things.
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I'm in Ontario. My experience across the country is pretty much the same however. You are correct that local/municipal by-laws vary from province to province, but as a whole, the result is the same as ultimately it is the Federal Criminal Code that trumps locality laws.
Canada is as blantantly anti-knife, as they are anti-gun. It's just the nature of a country that never had to fight for its independence, and as such - has no ammendment rights like the USA. Everything is a "privilege" here - not a right.
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You mean like a pretty girl of questionable character? Dang, how do I get into these things? My momma told me not to come.
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