Persian Dagger finally done!

Sweet.
Patrice, as the maker of course you know everything that wasn't just exactly the way you wanted it. You just know too much about the knife is all. I would have ended up with pieces of scrap steel and wood

Very interesting and lots of little touches that sent it over the top. Plus, you must have learned a lot. Jim
 
Way to go man, that thing really looks great! How about a sheath? You know it has to be matching blood wood too right? :)
 
Any Persian prince would be proud to carry that! I can't imagine how hard that must have been to make. Really beautiful work.
 
I wasn't expecting such a response. :o As much as I appreciate, it makes me feel ashamed that I did not post more closeup pics showing the obvious flaws first. :o
Sun is out and lighting should be good so tomorrow I'll post them as well as some description of some of what I learned and mistakes I made. Hopefully it will help some.

That said, I was a little worn out after finishing this one but your good words charged me right back up. :thumbup::D I am even contemplating that bloodwood scabbard darn you. ;)
 
Patrice,
Really a nice persian interpretation. No need to point out any flaws, everything on the piece just works. Its the total picture that matters. I feel that your work has reached a new level. Thanks for sharing.

Jerry Fisher
 
As promise here are a few close-up pics of the different parts of the knife as well as an exploded view. I'll try do describe what is wrong in each (some things are obvious) and how I think I will approach the problem the next time. I am wordy so this may be quite long. ;)

First is the exploded view. 19 pieces in all. 2 more if you count the pins in the brass “flowers” which are a press fit. The connecting screw is attached to the tang with a pin. I will use a small screw the next time. I think I lost 4 of those in all while taking it apart. :( I will also have a thicker tang so that I can bevel the end so that the screw head is the same thickness. As it stands I need to drill round slot for it to pass through the wooden part of the handle.

persian_exploded_view.jpg


Next is one of the views of the guard. As you can see, 2 things are wrong. The fit of the little decoration (no idea how to call it) is not the best and the sides are open. I would have liked it to enclose the blade but that would require brazing and skills that are more jewelry oriented that I don't posses yet. I'd love to take a course or 2 of basic jewelry making. I am sure it would help. You can also see the gap between handle, spacer, and guard. The fit is good, it is just a problem with the retaining nut on the handle which I'll describe later.

persian_guard_fit.jpg


Another view of the guard. In this one you can see 2 things. Well one may be a little harder. One of the brass nuts is off centered a smudge and it ends up lower not centered and lower than the other. See they are made of one piece and I don't know how to cut threads on the lathe yet. So I used dies and I always end up with crooked threads even if I try using the drill press or mill or lathe for alignment. Gotta learn to cut threads on the old SB9. The other flaw is with the guard shaping. As you can see the recessed carving could be cleaner. That is something that I could and probably will correct as it doesn't involve redoing something. I was just out of steam for the whole project. :( As you can see, the whole guard is also not symmetrical. As I found out, also by looking at a recent WIP by Steve Culvert (thanks by the way :thumbup:), metal carving need precise layout. “Winging it”, which is what I did here, just doesn't cut it, no pun intended.

persian_guard_fit2.jpg


While I am on the subject, I bought a small chuck for one of my Dremels. Had I known these existed I would have outfitted all the Dremels a long time ago. Cheap (20$) and so much faster and easier than the darn key thing.

dremel_chuck.jpg


Next is a pics someone requested of the “pommel” (don't know how to call it) decorations. These turned out ok. I just will do a little more carving/engraving/details next time.

persian_pommel.jpg


Next pic will be disappointing for many that thought that I had come up with an ingenious way of securing the take down. (Sorry Bruce :( And yes you were right, simple just doesn't seem to cut it anymore sadly. :() I had a few ideas in mind but as I said before, I just ran out of steam. :( It is simply a tapered insert. And the taper is not pronounced enough, hence my reluctance of tightening it too much and the earlier problem about the tight fit of the handle/spacer/guard. Oh well...

persian_take_down_nut.jpg


Last thing I wanted to talk about was the grind. I did this on a “stock” 10” KMG wheel. As you can imagine it doesn't work for every part of the grind as the geometry varies in width and curvature. I used the “corner” of the wheel for the upper inside part. I put a pic to try and illustrate better. I don't know how to explain it. I would just end up writing a page long essay that would leave more questions than answers.

KMG_wheel_side.jpg


One thing I can say it that doing this with a hollow grind was easier than a flat grind. You guys surely know this but once you establish the “groove” with a hollow grind, it make sit easier to move it up until you meet your middle line. You can actually feel the wheel in the groove helping to locate where you are. With a flat grind you can't, well “I” can't anyway.
This brings me to another tip that may help. There is no way I can do a grind this complex in full “pulls” across the whole blade like I usually do. Once the basic groove was established, well away from the center line, I worked on small sections about the width of the wheel starting at the ricasso. Once the first section is moved a little closer to the center line you move on to the next using the first one as a starting point and guide and so on. Go all the way to the tip in steps like this and start back at the ricasso until you've moved you grind to the center line. If you go over the line a little you can cheat by carefully using the flat platen to grind a little flat back to center and starting again. Of course this is just for minor corrections or it will throw the whole grind out of whack.
Finally as you can imagine, this is not a true hollow grind. As you move up the blade the width of the blade is so small that it becomes almost a flat grind because of the large diameter of the wheel. I guess it would be possible to reduce wheel diameter as you go to keep it a hollow grind but the last one would have to be a very small diameter wheel and blending all this smoothly is a sure way to end up in a padded room with a straight-jacket. ;)

Now for those of you still reading, I want to address a few things.

David: I am glad you liked the GIMP tutorial. I'd love to see pics you used it on. :thumbup:

Justin: Feeling refreshed by all the compliments I thought about a scabbard but I think it would have to be designed at the same time as the knife itself. As it stands now I don't think I could come up with something that would “flow” right if that makes any sense.

Paul (PJ234): It is a nice thing for you to say but I am sure you have as much creativity as I do. I am not special in that regard believe me. Give me a pad of paper and a pencil and I'll make you a nice pile of useless scribbling. ;) I try to work on my creativity by looking at antique jewelry, architecture, paintings. Anything that can be considered art. Even if it is far from knifemaking like architecture for example. You can find some pics of incredible work online. I love old pistols for example. There were some incredibly talented people there, Same for watchmaking, etc... When I have time to waste (that doesn't happen often anymore :() I go to the bookstore and browse the art section. I'll buy a few books if they are on sale but mostly I'll just spend some time sitting in a corner leafing through art books, trying, when I see a pleasant shape for example, to imagine how could I incorporate that in a knife or stand, etc... Not sure if it works or if I am just imaging stuff but it can't hurt right? Maybe I'm just nuts.

Finally, Jerry: I understand your point of view but I'd like to explain why I point out the flaws. Phil (Dwyer) once told me that he liked my honest progression as a knifemaker. He said it in a much nicer way of course. So now I HAVE to tell the truth! Darn you Phil! ;) Kidding of course. I point out flaws because I don't want to misrepresent myself. In spite of the digital limitations of this media I consider all of you like friends, many good ones. Hiding even small things would feel the same as lying straight to your face. I am also concerned by aspiring knifemakers seeing my progression as more/faster than it actually is and feeling discouraged by their own progress not measuring. I don't know if that makes sense.

Crap, how did this turn into a book. :confused: Sorry. I guess I am still shocked by the incredibly kind response I got and when I am nervous I ramble. :(

Don't hesitate if you have questions, or simply want to tell me to shut up. ;)
 
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Patrice, to me, what you accomplished is absolutely amazing. I can't even begin to imagine possessing the skill to accomplish something as beautiful. I really appreciate the time you took to show this piece.
 
I enjoyed this thread and the explaination you gave Patrice. I cant see any reason for any apology on your constructions whatsoever. I came back tonight to see if you had posted the take down method and was not dissapointed. This knife reminds me of an antique pistol if you can ignore the blade for a minute. I think your progression is moving forward at the right pace and cant wait to see what you do next. My advice is keep it up my friend.
 
What I find remarkable is that you can already in your progress, recognize your areas of problems and know what has to be done the next time a similar issue comes up and that you refuse to hide them. I too will be watching for your next one. I'm sure it too in it's own pattern will have styling and quality work to go with it. Frank.
 
Thanks all. Being able to share my work with you guys is a big part of my motivation. Especially things I learn.

Bruce, I do like old pistols. LOVE! your cut'nshoot and pistol work. Very inspiring and something I will try someday if time permits. :)
 
That's hands down one of the top three knives I've seen on here. I have a thing for Persian blades. I want one!
 
A thank you would have been good, but I'll take that I guess. Haha

Forgive me, I should have added the thank you. :o Believe me it's not because I don't appreciate the compliment. I am a little overwhelmed by all the compliments and that one was a doozy! :thumbup:
So thank you and sorry again.
 
Make more!!!
I could see one in my future at some point if there were more.:)
My wife thought if was a very pretty knife as well.
 
Patrice Lemée;9426004 said:
Forgive me, I should have added the thank you. :o Believe me it's not because I don't appreciate the compliment. I am a little overwhelmed by all the compliments and that one was a doozy! :thumbup:
So thank you and sorry again.

Please, no need to apologize. I fully got the sarcasm. lol and enjoyed it. but i meant every word of the compliment
 
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