Phillip Seymour Hoffman

I wonder if you would feel the same if this happened to your brother or father...

It could have been me.

In 1970, I was injured in the line of duty while serving in the U.S. Army Engineers. I was medically discharged, and in the year that followed was treated at the V.A. hospital in Washington D.C. Lots of pain killers were made available to me, and it was an easy thing to swallow a pill and feel great. Out of the hospital, I was given V.A. vocational training, and still lots of pills. Enough pills that I started to like taking them. Then my second child was born. With two kids and being trained for another line of work, I had a choice. I choose to flush the pills down the toilet and take some Tylenol and suck it up. I had a wife and two kids, and the responsibility that went with them.

I had a family to take care of. That's what a man does, he takes care of his family, not pop pills because he's in pain and wants to go off to never never land. You stick it out. This guy leaves his family hanging. Yeah, less than admirable behavior. He chose not to act like a man, and not take care of his family. So don't expect me to have any respect for that kind of individual. I admit I don't understand the addictive personality. But if I could say no to the drugs and go on with life, then somebody with Hoffmans kind of money should be able to.

Somewhere along the way, an addict chose to be an addict. A cancer victim didn't ask of the cancer. Making that kind of analogy is moronic.
 
No! Willpower will not change brain chemistry. But it WILL change behavior. Thousands of people make the CHOICE to stay sober, every day. Addiction may very well be a disease that can not be cured. BUT, it can be beaten every day.

Do you think that there might be some differences between individuals with respect to brain chemistry? Do you think willpower and personality are independent from brain chemistry?
 
Willpower is the most important factor. Addicts have to want to not use. They have to want a better life. My respect is given freely to those that have their addiction under control. Those that are trying, but stumble and get back on the wagon again? They have my respect too. Hoffman had 70 bags of heroin according to the news, correct me if I'm wrong. That is unconcsciable to me. He was looking for his first high. That one was long gone. His high meant more to him than his family. Than his friends. Than his career. I can't fathom that. Yes, it is a medical issue. But to say hey I have an addiction, well, that's life, pass the spoon, is a cop out. For 20 odd years he wanted sobriety and got it. He could have gone another 40 yrs if he wanted it bad enough.

I do think all of the drug dealers out there are a vermin, especially when they sell to kids.
 
Do you think that there might be some differences between individuals with respect to brain chemistry? Do you think willpower and personality are independent from brain chemistry?

Nothing is independent of brain chemistry. Our brain is our universe. Everything we see, feel, taste, hear, or smell is filtered through our brain, which operates through chemical interactions.

However, behavior CAN BE CHANGED!

Chemical addiction is a physical and psychological process. Both can be addressed through medicinal and therapeutic means.
But not by force. It cannot be done without the personal choice of the addict.
 
Can marijuana play a role in the addiction process?

Heck! Sugar, sex, gambling, marijuana, knives... ANYTHING can play a role in addiction.
The addiction is the problem, not what or how.
 
I wonder if what makes giving up substances even more difficult is that a lot of the time the starting point (the period before substances) is not a happy place to go back to.
 
Lifestyle modification? As in removing yourself from any temptations? How does that compare to cancer? Are you a recovering addict justice, or have you survived cancer?

If you take a drug, such as heroin or cocaine you've made a choice to most possibly be an addict. For whatever reason. Whenever I eat bad foods I make a decision. I don't want to have a heart attack but I have made a decision. If you are a recovering addict I hope you do not relapse but if you do it is your fault. The medical complications from drug addiction are real. Your will is still the deciding factor in your fate and you still brought this upon yourself. We are all adults here. Smoking, drugs, food. We are responsible for our actions. Hoffman screwed the pooch on this one. He was an addict on his early 20s, died in his 40s. He most certainly didn't want to leave his kids but he screwed up.

It may be a medical condition, but like diabetes it can be controlled. Stop comparing it to cancer.

The #1 recommended cure for addiction is Lifestyle modification, and not just removing yourself from temptation, but a total lifestyle overhaul. That includes changing your diet and excercise, what you do for hobbies, possibly what you do for a living, isolating all the factors that exacerbate or contribute to your disease and modifying them to give yourself the best shot at a longer life. The #1 recommended cure for Heart disease is Lifestyle modification - not just moving near a hospital so you will be closer when you have a heart attack, but changging your diet an exercise and making a total lifestyle overhaul. With the large majority of cancers, your doctor will suggest lifestyle modification to address contributing factors - removing carcinogens, being more proactive with checkups (for an addict that would equate to doing outpatient recovery programs) and often diet and exercise.

It doesn't matter if I'm recovering from cancer or addiction, I'm not the one trivializing a man's death because he had a disease - the accuracy of the information I've given you should speak for itself and can be checked, so I'm assuming that question is to develop some sort of ad hominem stance against my argument.

So you're admitting that addiction is a disease, but wanting to rank it on a level with diabetes? They're both predisposed to genetic markers that increase your chances of becoming afflicted (just like cancer), they both are subject to triggers and causes from your environment (just like cancer), and there are children with diabetes that never had a donut fetish, addicts with a drug addiction that have never taken a drug that wasn't prescribed to them, and there are people with lung cancer that never smoked a cigarette. What' funny is that you guys choose those 3 diseases to combat addiction's classification as a disease, and the vast majority of people with those 3 diseases have made choices that either led to their disease or complicated it. So I guess the guy who smoked 2 packs a day for 20 years, his cancer doesn't put him on the same level as someone with a kind of cancer where the environmental contributions aren't so clear?

I'm all for personal responsibility, and I really wish there was more of it in the world. I'm very much proud of your acceptance of personal responsibility (even though I don't know you, it sets a very good example for everyone when you can admit fault, which is one of the hardest things a lot of people do). People have went from denying addiction is a disease, to admitting it's a disease but wanting to rank it alongside a "mid-tier" of diseases that warrant a lesser level of respect, to saying Hoffman wasn't a man. You go to a funeral to pay respects, not leave advice in the guestbook or tell the widow there was a better way. There is a thread about personal responsibility somewhere on this site I'm sure, and there are even self help groups about improving your life through personal responsibility - this is a thread commemorating the passing of a great actor though, and no matter who he was or what he did he didn't ask for our eulogy, and in respect of the people that do care we owe it to the family to at least let his body get cold before anybody attacks the 9% of Americans that are addicts as cowards, low lifes and 'not men' on the behalf of Phillip Seymour Hoffman. It's a shame that I've posted 2 or 3 times here and haven't gotten the chance to say how good he was at his job.


It could have been me.

In 1970, I was injured in the line of duty while serving in the U.S. Army Engineers. I was medically discharged, and in the year that followed was treated at the V.A. hospital in Washington D.C. Lots of pain killers were made available to me, and it was an easy thing to swallow a pill and feel great. Out of the hospital, I was given V.A. vocational training, and still lots of pills. Enough pills that I started to like taking them. Then my second child was born. With two kids and being trained for another line of work, I had a choice. I choose to flush the pills down the toilet and take some Tylenol and suck it up. I had a wife and two kids, and the responsibility that went with them.

I had a family to take care of. That's what a man does, he takes care of his family, not pop pills because he's in pain and wants to go off to never never land. You stick it out. This guy leaves his family hanging. Yeah, less than admirable behavior. He chose not to act like a man, and not take care of his family. So don't expect me to have any respect for that kind of individual. I admit I don't understand the addictive personality. But if I could say no to the drugs and go on with life, then somebody with Hoffmans kind of money should be able to.

Somewhere along the way, an addict chose to be an addict. A cancer victim didn't ask of the cancer. Making that kind of analogy is moronic.

The only thing moronic or ignorant here is the people acting like the Westboro Baptist Church and using the death of someone as a pulpit to condemn them and spread inaccurate and baseless opinion. Money doesn't help if the only known treatments are affordable to everyone, but there is no cure.

Here is the medical stance regarding addiction as a chronic disease:

http://archives.drugabuse.gov/about/welcome/aboutdrugabuse/chronicdisease/

Until someone cites a peer reviewed medical study or at least a more authoritative source on the issue than your own backwards logic about addiction being a choice or Willpower being approved by the FDA for the treatment of disease, there is nothing more to say. I haven't heard any argument against addiction as a disease reference a single fact, and most of you are repeating the same inaccurate assumptions after they've already been refuted. I won't repeat myself, and I won't trivialize addiction or cancer by continuing to post responses to the same people making the same remarks that have already been refuted .
 
I wonder if what makes giving up substances even more difficult is that a lot of the time the starting point (the period before substances) is not a happy place to go back to.

I can only speak for myself.
I had NONE of the triggers, childhood abuse, neglectful parents, socialization problems, hell I had a great childhood (high school sucked but whose doesn't) and parents better than I could ask for.
I enjoyed the way drugs made me feel. I chose not to see what was happening to me. How my body was being wreaked. How my finances were in the toilet. NONE OF THAT MATTERED to me. Somehow, the epiphany happened. My eyes opened and I saw the reality. I left my apartment, party in progress, drove 1100 miles to my parents house and have never looked back. That was almost 40 years ago. I put my life on another track and rebuilt.

Do I still have the craving? Yes, every day! I make it a point to not associate with people that are facilitators of that lifestyle.
I quit cold turkey, nothing but the WILL POWER and DETERMINATION to never give anything that much control over me, again. Behaviour can be changed, you just gotta want it.
 
I can only speak for myself.
I had NONE of the triggers, childhood abuse, neglectful parents, socialization problems, hell I had a great childhood (high school sucked but whose doesn't) and parents better than I could ask for.
I enjoyed the way drugs made me feel. I chose not to see what was happening to me. How my body was being wreaked. How my finances were in the toilet. NONE OF THAT MATTERED to me. Somehow, the epiphany happened. My eyes opened and I saw the reality. I left my apartment, party in progress, drove 1100 miles to my parents house and have never looked back. That was almost 40 years ago. I put my life on another track and rebuilt.

Do I still have the craving? Yes, every day! I make it a point to not associate with people that are facilitators of that lifestyle.
I quit cold turkey, nothing but the WILL POWER and DETERMINATION to never give anything that much control over me, again. Behaviour can be changed, you just gotta want it.

Not to compare myself with your far more challenging example, but I found that when it comes to weight loss, sometimes it really comes down to how bad you want something. My approach involved a box of gambling dice (45 dice, I still have them) and the stairs going to the basement. Very high tech, mind you. I would pour the dice at the bottom of the stairs, and carry them one by one up the stairs. Three times a day, every day, for 6 months. That was my goal set in stone (calendar). It sucked, and I felt angry at myself for letting myself get to the point where I had to be angry at myself to get it done, if that makes sense. But, it worked, and I lost the weight. The misery made me appreciate the benefit of not eating too much in the first place, the smarter way of maintaining a desirable weight. The lifestyle changes I have developed is that I now like exercise, and don't like food that much (with a couple exceptions).
 
Childhood diabetes is not what I was referencing, that's type 1. You mentioned type 1. I mentioned adult onset diabetes. I only said I had the utmost respect and humility for those who were clean and working towards keeping that way. This is a discussion board, and the op said he was sad to see a man succumb to his addiction. I've only seen a few of the mans movies, and while he was not one of my favorites I acknowledge his abilities and drive to entertain. If someone were to go to his funeral and tell his widow or surviving kids that he should have had more willpower, I would be first in line to drag that person out the door by their nose. However, if no one tells those kids in later years to love their father even though he made bad choices, and inform them of said bad choices, they might fall into the same pattern.

Addicts are not bad people. The addiction is bad and I will admit that chemical reactions in their brain makes them do horrible things to loved ones and strangers alike . I'm not saying therapy and more drugs won't help. I am on meds for diabetes, heart issues, fluid pills, I take ibuprofen just to move this time of year . Ton of supplements for energy etc. I have all manner of ailments. I can't even bring a load of firewood in for the night or shovel out my truck without throwing out my back. I am severely out of shape. I always plan on doing my best health wise, but I fall short.

I'm not equating my issues to what an addict goes through, but I could've changed all this by losing weight. Lose weight, pain is reduced greatly, diabetes goes away. All of these things are available to me, with a lot of hard work and discipline . I have to want it bad enough. I lack discipline and don't want it hard enough.

An addict has to want sobriety it bad enough. They have to have that drive or else no amount of drugs , therapy , or support will save them. I have been blessed to only have issues with food, thank God, but I have cried over friends and family gone, and cried over those fighting and those given in to its clutches. This pestilence knows no limits . No race , no status , no dividing line. It will affect everyone. Ultimately the addict-whatever their ailment, will have to choose to battle or not.
 
Not to compare myself with your far more challenging example, but I found that when it comes to weight loss, sometimes it really comes down to how bad you want something. My approach involved a box of gambling dice (45 dice, I still have them) and the stairs going to the basement. Very high tech, mind you. I would pour the dice at the bottom of the stairs, and carry them one by one up the stairs. Three times a day, every day, for 6 months. That was my goal set in stone (calendar). It sucked, and I felt angry at myself for letting myself get to the point where I had to be angry at myself to get it done, if that makes sense. But, it worked, and I lost the weight. The misery made me appreciate the benefit of not eating too much in the first place, the smarter way of maintaining a desirable weight. The lifestyle changes I have developed is that I now like exercise, and don't like food that much (with a couple exceptions).

Good on you! You changed course, YOU made it happen.
I wasn't comparing myself to anyone. Me, you, Mr. Hoffman, them... we all have to answer to ourselves.
My Mother always told me, "If you are okay with the person in the mirror... No one else matters."
 
Those of us who will miss him, say so. Then move on.

Those of us who are real addicts and alcoholics in recovery, remember our singleness of purpose. We have no business talking recovery on a knife forum.
Save it for addicts who are actually asking for our help.

Everyone else arguing, shut up, let a man rest in piece, and let's get back to talking blades.
 
Those of us who will miss him, say so. Then move on.

Those of us who are real addicts and alcoholics in recovery, remember our singleness of purpose. We have no business talking recovery on a knife forum.
Save it for addicts who are actually asking for our help.

Everyone else arguing, shut up, let a man rest in piece, and let's get back to talking blades.

New guy.....welcome and well said. :thumbup:
 
Good on you! You changed course, YOU made it happen.
I wasn't comparing myself to anyone. Me, you, Mr. Hoffman, them... we all have to answer to ourselves.
My Mother always told me, "If you are okay with the person in the mirror... No one else matters."

What's your take on this article about weight loss?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/10/opinion/cupp-biggest-loser-been-there/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

I would not label somebody's sheer willpower, hard work, determination and success as an "addiction". To do so makes me wonder if we are talking about envy here, disguised as "concern" for her health. Could it be that some people need others to fail at something so that they can feel good about themselves?
 
I think what the reporter was going for is to warn against the POTENTIAL to substitute one addiction (weight gain/eating) for another (weight loss/not eating).
She used her personal struggles with this to highlight that possibility.

As for the general public outcry disguised as concern... screw 'em!
Media/internet comments are not to be taken seriously. Media goes for the sensational and blows things out of proportion just to make headlines. Internet yahoos are just mean and nasty because they are anonymous and cannot be called out.
 
Last edited:
As for the general public outcry disguised as concern... screw 'em!
Media/internet comments are not to be taken seriously. Media goes for the sensational and blows things out of proportion just to make headlines. Internet yahoos are just mean and nasty because they are anonymous and cannot be called out.

Amen to that. :thumbup:

If anything, the "concern" of others should provide additional (and free of charge) motivation for the person to succeed in their goals, whatever those may be. :D
In my experience, one of the hardest parts of lard loss is finding healthier foods at a reasonable cost. Just about everything is packed with forms of cheap sugar.
 
I can empathize, but I can't sympathize. I am just shy of 6' tall and have weighed between 150-190# since I was 15.
My sister, though, has struggled with her weight her entire life.
So I kinda know how it is.

The difficulty in eating healthy, for me, is having to cut through and decipher all the labeling bullshit. My favorite, right now, is the word "Organic". Sheeple seem to think this is a good thing. It is supposed to mean that the farmers didn't use any manmade chemicals in the growing of this food. What it means to me... They heaped piles of shit on it to make it grow.
:o
 
Back
Top