Picking a strop/compound

[stitchawl]

Koyo from JapanWoodwoker works to do hair whittling sharpening - I verified this.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.098&dept_id=13100

A 19 oz bar?
That's enough for nine different people and last each of them
two lifetimes!! And $33.00?
Who needs so much?

For $7.95 you can get a 6 oz bar (which will be enough for three people lasting two lifetimes) from Woodcraft through Amazon! High quality compound with a uniform grit size, made specifically for sharpening woodworking tools!

Upholstry leather works fine.

Of course it does! :thumbup: If you're going to cover it up with a compound, a free piece of cardboard works perfectly well. No need to use leather when you're using compound. Rub the stuff on a wooden paint stirring stick.


Stitchawl

 

[cziv]

Of course it does! :thumbup: If you're going to cover it up with a compound, a free piece of cardboard works perfectly well. No need to use leather when you're using compound. Rub the stuff on a wooden paint stirring stick.

Stitchawl

They look at me funny when I grab about 10 paint stirring sticks at Ace or Wal-Mart. They get enough of my business - what's a few sticks?

 

[stitchawl]

They look at me funny when I grab about 10 paint stirring sticks at Ace or Wal-Mart. They get enough of my business - what's a few sticks?

While you're there, pick up a half pint of flat green barn paint to go along with the paint stirring sticks. :thumbup:
The pigment is chromium oxide. Dip, dry, and strop. No need to even buy it by the bar. Much cheaper and just as effective for most work. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES buy the chromium oxide pigment powder unless you have some insane urge to cover your entire world green. The slightest breeze blows that stuff everywhere!!!
(Of course you can mix it with a few drops of water before you try to use it. I didn't... )

Or... if you have a green barn near you... late at night... with a saw...


Stitchawl

 

[nozh2002]

A 19 oz bar?
That's enough for nine different people and last each of them
two lifetimes!! And $33.00?
Who needs so much?

For $7.95 you can get a 6 oz bar (which will be enough for three people lasting two lifetimes) from Woodcraft through Amazon! High quality compound with a uniform grit size, made specifically for sharpening woodworking tools!

WoodCraft does not work - too coarse. It is easy to feel while honing.

Of course I am talking about whittling hair, if you need just shave your arm - compound is not needed at all. Do you whittling hair?

Of course it does! :thumbup: If you're going to cover it up with a compound, a free piece of cardboard works perfectly well. No need to use leather when you're using compound. Rub the stuff on a wooden paint stirring stick.

Stitchawl

It does not work on Hand American Made leather.

Now I tried different bases - wood, MDF, paper on the table. While they does work, that leather leather works much better because I guess it absorbs some variation in pressure and movement while honing. And this is important to have fine leather.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Why so much drama? We are talking about just honing...

 

[cziv]

P.S. Why so much drama? We are talking about just honing...

No drama here? We're talking about honing.

 

[stitchawl]

WoodCraft does not work - too coarse.

Works fine for everyone else. Why do you think you have such problems with it? ALL chromium oxide compounds are between .05 and 1.5 microns in grit size. The more expensive compounds narrow that size range a bit, but none exceed it. As long as you know the grit size you are dealing with there shouldn't be any problems.

Of course I am talking about whittling hair, if you need just shave your arm - compound is not needed at all.

To shave your arm, stropping is not needed at all. Any good sharpener can do that after a 320 grit stone. Do you really have to strop to shave your arm? Perhaps some more practice will get you there.

Do you whittling hair?

LOL! No, whittling is for beginners. I carve hair into replicas of famous landmarks such as the Eiffel Tower, Taj Mahal, and Madame Francine's Bordello.

It does not work on Hand American Made leather.

Golly, I'm glad you didn't tell me that 15+ years ago. I've been using it to strop my edges and getting great results all these years. If I had known that it didn't work I probably wouldn't have gotten such sharp, well polished knives!!
HandAmerican is now selling Horween's horsehide for its strops. There is simply no better leather on the planet for stropping than this.

Now, you may disagree, and that's OK, but please don't try to tell me that something doesn't work when I've been using it with excellent results for years. That's just silly. Instead, you might gain some credibility if you were to say "This product doesn't work 'for me.' We can all accept that you have no luck with such and such product and prefer something different. But to tell us that HandAmerican leather doesn't work when we've been making it work, and work well, for many years, ruins any credibility you might have!

And this is important to have fine leather.

Yes, on this we can agree. We just disagree on what IS fine leather. You insist on using chrome tanned upholstery leather, and I (along with the rest of the knife sharpening industry {and science} for the past several centuries) says that vegetable tanned leather works best. I won't tell you not to use upholstery leather. It's your choice. Please don't tell me not to use my choice.

Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

No drama here? We're talking about honing.

Tune in tomorrow for another episode of...... 'Sharp as a Knife'
Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel! (Brought to you by the makers of all these wonderful products that we can spend our rent money buying.)


Stitchawl

 

[nozh2002]

Works fine for everyone else. Why do you think you have such problems with it? ALL chromium oxide compounds are between .05 and 1.5 microns in grit size. The more expensive compounds narrow that size range a bit, but none exceed it. As long as you know the grit size you are dealing with there shouldn't be any problems.



To shave your arm, stropping is not needed at all. Any good sharpener can do that after a 320 grit stone. Do you really have to strop to shave your arm? Perhaps some more practice will get you there.



LOL! No, whittling is for beginners. I carve hair into replicas of famous landmarks such as the Eiffel Tower, Taj Mahal, and Madame Francine's Bordello.



Golly, I'm glad you didn't tell me that 15+ years ago. I've been using it to strop my edges and getting great results all these years. If I had known that it didn't work I probably wouldn't have gotten such sharp, well polished knives!!
HandAmerican is now selling Horween's horsehide for its strops. There is simply no better leather on the planet for stropping than this.

Now, you may disagree, and that's OK, but please don't try to tell me that something doesn't work when I've been using it with excellent results for years. That's just silly. Instead, you might gain some credibility if you were to say "This product doesn't work 'for me.' We can all accept that you have no luck with such and such product and prefer something different. But to tell us that HandAmerican leather doesn't work when we've been making it work, and work well, for many years, ruins any credibility you might have!



Yes, on this we can agree. We just disagree on what IS fine leather. You insist on using chrome tanned upholstery leather, and I (along with the rest of the knife sharpening industry {and science} for the past several centuries) says that vegetable tanned leather works best. I won't tell you not to use upholstery leather. It's your choice. Please don't tell me not to use my choice.

Stitchawl

Whatever - I am not participating nether drama no clown performance.

Best wishes, Vassili.

 

[THG]

Why is green compound used rather than white or blue or whatever else there is?

 

[cziv]

Why is green compound used rather than white or blue or whatever else there is?

The day this product was created and the 1st batch was run, fell on St. Patrick's Day and since the owner of the company is Irish, it's stayed on as a tradition.

 

[stevekt]

Knife Art sells a paddle strop with a tube of Flitz for $20. I've had mine for a while and am very pleased with it.

 

[stitchawl]

The day this product was created and the 1st batch was run, fell on St. Patrick's Day and since the owner of the company is Irish, it's stayed on as a tradition.

Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

Why is green compound used rather than white or blue or whatever else there is?

While czvi gave you the 'traditional,' shall we say 'more earthy' reason, permit me to wax scientific...

Compounds are made in different grits, made of different substances, and for cutting/polishing different materials. One needs to be quite specific about the grit size when sharpening, as you don't want to follow a small grit with a larger one. The principle difference in the substances themselves is the 'speed of cutting.' i.e. diamond cuts faster than Aluminum Oxide. Chromium Oxide cuts faster than Silicon Carbide, etc, and what each can actually cut. Most of these are sold in brick form, almost a pound or two for under $10-$15 depending upon the substance. At the most, a hobbyist might use a few ounces in a lifetime. Look for smaller bars...

The 'green stuff,' or Chromium Oxide compound has a grit range between .5 microns - 1.5 microns and is effective for cutting/polishing steel. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. Pay a higher price and get a more consistent grit size. But don't spend more than $10. It's not worth the cost.

The 'white stuff,' affectionately called Aluminum Oxide, provides excellent cut for chrome and stainless but at a larger grit size.

Then there is 'black stuff.' This is often made from silicon carbide. This stuff cuts very well, but is usually a MUCH larger grit size than the others.

The 'brown stuff,' often called Tripoli, is best used on all softer metals Aluminum, Copper, magnesium, zinc, almost any non ferrous metal. Usally a large grit substance.

And at last we come to the 'red stuff,' know to all as Red Jeweler's Rouge, and is made from Iron Oxide. This stuff is pretty soft and is really best for non-ferrous metals. It's what's used to polish silver and gold (after all, it IS Jeweler's Rouge, right?) but it does work on steel if used with motorized buffing wheels.

There are dozens of other compounds available, and plenty of polishes that work very well on knives and can be used for sharpening. Ordinary 'Flitz' metal polish can be used as a stropping compound, as can 'Mother's Mag Wheel Polish.' While these do work, and work well, they are much slower than DMT diamond paste compound. Much cheaper too.

When buying, plan your grit size needs. Most people strop after using stones with about 1,000/3,000 grit so any compound with a grit size of about 1 micron will be great. Diamond will be faster. Chromium Oxide will be cheaper. Then go to a smaller grit size... etc., etc. If you are stopping your stone work after 600 grit, you might wish to begin stropping with Aluminum Oxide or Silicon Carbide at about 5 micron, then progress to something with 1 mic, them something with .5 mic, etc., etc.

But on St. Patrick's Day, all we use is Chromium Oxide. :thumbup:


Stitchawl

 

[nozh2002]

Why is green compound used rather than white or blue or whatever else there is?

Cromium Oxide (Green Rouge) is only compound hard enough to polish stainless steel - according to jeweler compound rating. Red Rouge is Iron Oxide or just Rust (Rouge in french means red BTW, so green rough or even red Rough sounds funny for French).

Of course with power tools - when it is applied to buffing wheel it is bit different, but for hand polish (which is honing) for stainless steel only Green Rouge works.

Also Chromium Oxide is used for polishing lenses for optic.

Actually plane leather works too, but it is matter of hours to get same result you may get for few minutes with green rouge.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Vassili,
Why would you think that plain leather will polish steel, and iron oxide won't?

 

[nozh2002]

Vassili,
Why would you think that plain leather will polish steel, and iron oxide won't?

As I sad it is matter of amount of work. I heart Iron oxide works for polishing steel using power tools. I guess it will work as well as leather will work, but it will require hours.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[stitchawl]

Cromium Oxide (Green Rouge) is only compound hard enough to polish stainless steel -

Sorry but....
Aluminum oxide is crushed up ruby/sapphire 'stuff'... MUCH harder than steel and perfectly suitable for polishing or honing knives. It's the stuff emery cloth is made from. :thumbup:

Silicon carbide is almost twice as hard as steel, also perfectly suitable for polishing or honing knives. :thumbup:

Crush up crystallized carbon and you really have some hard polishing compound too! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Actually plane leather works too, but it is matter of hours to get same result you may get for few minutes with green rouge.

I don't think you can get the same results with plain leather as with chromium oxide compound. The grit size of CrO2 varies between .5 - 1.5 microns. The grit size of the natural silicates (more of that silicon carbide stuff...) found in vegetable tanned cowhide and horsehide is between .05 micron going up to .1 micron. MUCH finer grit, producing a MUCH finer edge than is possible with CrO2. One really needs to have an edge already well sharpened and polished BEFORE using a bare strop, but then only needing a few dozen strokes to get the desired results.

Stitchawl

 

[nozh2002]

Sorry but....
Aluminum oxide is crushed up ruby/sapphire 'stuff'... MUCH harder than steel and perfectly suitable for polishing or honing knives. It's the stuff emery cloth is made from. :thumbup:

Silicon carbide is almost twice as hard as steel, also perfectly suitable for polishing or honing knives. :thumbup:

Crush up crystallized carbon and you really have some hard polishing compound too! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:



I don't think you can get the same results with plain leather as with chromium oxide compound. The grit size of CrO2 varies between .5 - 1.5 microns. The grit size of the natural silicates (more of that silicon carbide stuff...) found in vegetable tanned cowhide and horsehide is between .05 micron going up to .1 micron. MUCH finer grit, producing a MUCH finer edge than is possible with CrO2. One really needs to have an edge already well sharpened and polished BEFORE using a bare strop, but then only needing a few dozen strokes to get the desired results.

Stitchawl

Well there is not mirror polishing bars with all what you mentioned - only Green Rouge. Everything else to my knowledge are too cosrse and packed as powder. You forget zyrconium oxide. They are all incapable to do mirror polish.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[stitchawl]

Well there is not mirror polishing bars with all what you mentioned - only Green Rouge. Everything else to my knowledge are too cosrse and packed as powder.

Oh Vassili... why do you do this? It's getting embarrassing.

There were 103,000 'hits' for steel polishing compound, bar form.
Here are just a few;
http://www.englishcustompolishing.com/usca/abrasives.html
http://www.swmetal.com/cart/search?category=Polishing Compounds
http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffing.htm
http://www.metalpolishindia.com/metal-polishing-compound.htm
http://www.pjtool.com/stainlesssteelpolishingcompound.aspx

While many of the compounds ARE too coarse, quite a few of them will produce a mirror finish.

Stitchawl

 

[cziv]

Oh Vassili... why do you do this? It's getting embarrassing.

There were 103,000 'hits' for steel polishing compound, bar form.
Here are just a few;
http://www.englishcustompolishing.com/usca/abrasives.html
http://www.swmetal.com/cart/search?category=Polishing Compounds
http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffing.htm
http://www.metalpolishindia.com/metal-polishing-compound.htm
http://www.pjtool.com/stainlesssteelpolishingcompound.aspx

While many of the compounds ARE too coarse, quite a few of them will produce a mirror finish.

Stitchawl

Vassili is also throwing verbal blows with knifenut1013 over who's da man in the mirror polishing division. Lets call it a draw on move on with life.