Picture of Ryan Biohazard

Oh hell ya it can fight.

Something like this is extremely good at "enemy limb control". If you're dealing with a gunman at close range, it's just plain superb, almost as good in that role as the Civilian. But totally unlike the civvie, it can STAB too.

What it can't do all that well is "finely placed cuts". Somebody really good with a similar-reach blade such as the Sifu would probably prefer that; the Biohazard (and Civilan) gives GREAT advantages to "random frenzied ripping" stuff and the BH can still stab.

Oh hell yes. It ain't just nasty looks.

The Outsider is a bit different. It's got the heft for "smash" attacks like a Khukuri...forget "control" a limb, just lop the sucker clean off. The "spike" does again interfere with "fine placement of cuts" but like the Biohazard, it can still stab, and possibly do so better than a Khukuri. At Knifeignugen it'll be tested against free-hanging junk Kevlar vests and I know there'll be a Khukuri or two there for comparison, that'll be VERY interesting.

All of these "Hawbilloids" have a more immediate impact on the abilities of one not-so-well-trained. And in my opinion, a positive one.

And on top of all that, they scare the hell outta thugs, so you're less likely to actually USE it!

Jim March
 
I guess I can grasp that. But I would say IMO knives of this type suffer from too many slow motion bull sessions. You know what I mean; "If I do this you could do this and I could counter with this" type stuff. I know bull sessions can thought provoking but they can go overboard too. Why would I want to control a limb holding a firearm at close range with a knife? Wouldn't be better to control the firearm with one hand and with the other bury my knife hilt deep in the bad guys throat? Once again, IMO I would compair these overly intricate knife techniques to my brazilian jiu-jitsu techniques that are sport oriented. Some of the fancy sweeps I can do look great. But I can't do them unless my oponent is also wearing a kimono and isn't trying to punch me. In a fight I'll use bjj but just the basics, no fancy stuff. I woukd asume you would want to do the same using a knife.
 
Well...perhaps I should define "limb control" as I mean it.

If you hit somebody anywhere in the arm with a hawksbill of any type, including the Biohazard, it's not JUST gonna get damaged, it's going to *move*. And if you drag that arm around, if you know what you're doing you can do all sorts of neat things.

If you *don't* know what you're doing, you're still going to cause somebody real problems.

Let's take a classic example: somebody tries a straight thrust at you with their right hand, and you've got your knife in your right. He's coming at you, and you chop downwards at his wrist and catch a forearm bone maybe 3" above the wrist.

First problem is, you haven't hit his inside arm with it's tendons and blood vessels. With a conventional blade, you might cut but "slide off" and allow enough intact structure for him to complete the thrust.

Now switch to a Biohazard, Civilian or other Hawksbill. Your tip "digs in" and forces their hand down...instead of a "cut and slide on bone", you now have a "downwards fileting cut" towards the wrist. If you're REAL lucky, you'll hang up in his wrist bones. In any case, he's more likely to drop the knife and if that happens, you can slash high with the Civvie or with a Biohazard, take your pick between slash and stab.

It's that "grab and keep ripping" effect that makes these such wonderful critters.

Contrast one more time: the guy that REALLY knows his excrement will do a similar cut, but he'll reposition himself at the same time so that if anything goes wrong with the first cut, he's "out of the way" and he's now open for a follow-up cut. Almost all the FMAs will pull this, as will the Bujinkan/Jinenkan/Genbukan families.

I'm not fast enough on my feet yet. And I've had to put training on hold during this suit, AND given my size it'll be a while regardless.

Jim March
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
This knife and the Civie are exactly the opposite of the "slow-motion bull-session" style of knives. No targeted attacks necessary. No getting past their guard. No fancy stuff. Just swing and catch whatever part of them gets near you - they'll feel it!

That's a "defensive" knife (there aren't many). It's not about squaring off and fighting, doing footwork and fancy maneuvers to land a strike to the torso or head. It's about coming out of your pocket fast and doing massive superficial damage to the first thing that gets in its way, even if it's just a limb or non-critical area. Then you run like hell.

Why is this knife so fugly? 'Cause it has to be to give back what the Civilian lost in its unique slashing shape - a thrusting point. I've designed a lot of knives with that in mind, but as I said they were all so horrendous-looking that I never ground a single one. I kinda regret that now, 'cause in its own way that Biohazard is a very pretty knife.

I understand the initial reaction that these knives are just more useless Klingon garbage. But take a step back and think it over. I personally feel that the Civie represents the best piece of original, purpose-oriented thinking in the past decade of production knives. To me, it defines what a defensive knife should be, and throws a harsh light on all the "folding fighters" so often marketed for defense. It's also one of the few truly new blade shapes to be developed in this century (yeah, it's sorta like a bill-hook...) The Biohazard takes the Civilian's thinking one step further.

-Drew
 
As someone who has actualy stuck knives into things, I feel I am qualified to say that the Biohazard is more of a fantasy piece. That's not to say it wouldn't suck to be cut by one, but that it's design is not particularly efficient.

As an above poster pointed out, it's more of a guthook than recurved edge. It will make a superficial ripping cut before pulling out. It will lodge itself like a harpoon in whatever you stick it into, which really messes with your follow up. You're prety much limited to pumping.

The "guthook" part of it "shelters" the recurved edge so it can't even slash effectively. Except maybe with the back edge.

In short, I'm not really impressed with anything about this knife; except the treatment of the linerlock as described above, which is a damn good idea. Move the finger off the lock and remove half the problems with that style of lock. That gets a "thumbs up".

The Outsider has a blade that's quite similar to what was being put on navajas last century. Convex edge on front, concave edge on back, and a fully sharpened swedge too.

That style of blade is illustrated on the cover of Manual del Baratero, and also in a picture in La Navaja Espanloa Antigua. Kinda funny how it popped back up. Great minds, huh?
 
If there was ever one knife I would not want to see in my dreams it is that one
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So.....where can I get one ? !!!

I would love to be the one holding it in someone elses dream
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All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!! :)


 
Snickersnee,

I have to agree with your assessment. There is too much hook there for efficiency. Both the Outsider and the Civilian have similar angles on the slashing blade for a reason. Do you think it's possible to have an efficient design which leaves the blade small enough to be fast in the hand and provide both stabbing and slashing?

Jim's Outsider is uniquely beautiful, but a little more blade than I would normally want. But, it does provide both slashing and stabbing capability.
 
Bob, yes I do believe it is possible to have a small blade that is efficient at both slashing and stabbing. But you'd have to more specificaly define "fast in the hand" and small.

A clip point is a good example of a blade style that allows for efficiency in both the thrust and cut and allows a blade to remain small. The drop point does as well, but on 4-5 inch long blades that are reasonable narrow, a straight, as opposed to concave, clip tends to yield a tip that's a little more accute.

I prefer a straight clip as it leaves more metal at the tip, and hence is stronger. You can get away with a concave clip on a larger knife, but I don't like them on smallish folders.

Of course, clip and drop points aren't nearly as exotic as this thing.

Now a concave edge, like a Civilian, is another matter. You can design a rather beefy folder with a concave edge that's plenty strong.

An old time trick to improve slashing/cutting ability on a straight bladed knife is to grind the edge in such a way that it's convex the whole way down, making it all belly, but not too fat. You see this style on a lot of old time Bowies and Navajas.

The side benefit to the convex edge is that it's a lot easier to sharpen than the concave edge.
 
I tend to agree with Snick on the Biohazard also.

I agree as well about the way Steve Ryan protects the liner lock. I spent about an hour on the phone with Steve about 6 months back, interrogating him about his locks. It turns out he uses a 2-degree tang angle ramp (!!!). I have to assume the lock sticks like crazy, but it'll be very difficult to unlock.

Joe
 
Snickersnee,

I'm using "fast in the hand" and "small" as meaning the knife would be light enough to move in a slashing fashion, with quick directional changes (in other words, the weight of the knife itself doesn't slow down your hand speed). And "fast in the hand" would refer to a knife which allows grip changes (forward to reverse) fairly easily. Also I may have used small incorrectly here. I'm equating size with weight. Not sure this hold up well with today's materials. Even though relatively small, the knife must have enough blade and handle to work with. What I have in mind would be a folder a little on the large size. The blade would have to be at least 3.5 inches and probaby a bit bigger.

The idea being the knife is small enough to carry in a relatively concealed fashion, can be deployed quickly, and isn't so heavy it takes Arnold Schwarzzenegger to weild it. I like the size of the Civilian, but I would prefer a knife with stabbing capability as well in this same approximate size (give or take an inch or two). The Biohazard knife is not too big, so something in that size might work. That's actually small when compared to Jim's Outsider!

If we modified the tip area of the Biohazard to take out the hook - possibly by rounding out that area to get the same angle as the Civilian. Still leave the tip as is. Would that produce a good slasher which also is readily capable of stabbing?

I think that should have been Arnold Schwarzzenknifer!
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[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 17 August 1999).]
 
I have to agree with Snick that the Biohazard has gone overboard with that hook. I'm a big believer in the Civilian, but if the knife is going to stab, too, the hook must be less steep so as not to catch on withdrawal. Mr. Ryan seems to have done the opposite, giving his knife a greater hook than the Civie, which I don't understand. I've been digging out my old drawings and making some new ones in the hopes of finding a happy medium. I have no scanner, but maybe later I can do some paintshop doodles and post them for feedback. I think that a centered point CAN be incorporated into a hawksbill or S-shaped blade, but the curvature of the primary edge must be reduced (an extreme example is Darrell Ralph's "Krait.")

-Drew
 
In my experience what you mean by "fast in the hand" is more a matter of balance and handle shape, knives by default are light so even a big one is very agile, but a poorly handled and poorly balanced knife of any size will be a pain.

A real small and light knife will make the bad balance and poor handle less noticable, but that's just making the best of a bad situation.

I would reccomend a 3 and 7/8ths inch long blade for a general duty defensive folder. FOur inches seems to be the "line" you don't cross in many situations, and by keeping it a hair under 4" it's harder for a rent-a-cop to deny you entry with your knife.

For just regular street duty, big is good. That's why the navaja was popular among my people. It gives you a full-sized blade but folds in half. The long handle also gives it a defensive and offensive advantage, but that's another topic.

Anyway, navajas are about as big as folders can get, and I can assure you a well made example is quite fast and agile, and is a joy to switch grips with or even bring a second hand into play for certain techniques and such. Again another topic. They are also quite a bit lighter for their size than one would think.

Anyway, I feel the best way to get a cut and thrust blade on a moderate folder is to go with the convex rather than concave edge.

Concave edges by their very nature demand a larger blade, as they "sweep out" for lack of a better term. Especialy if you want a good thruster too. Anything short of 7 inches long and 1.75 inches wide and you're looking at compromises with a concave edge.
 
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