Pistol-caliber carbine

David E said:
I have a Keltec Sub rifle, because it FOLDS into a very small package. Add a 33 rd Glock mag and I'm able to ruin somebody's day, all day, out to 50-75 yds. So can my daughter and wife, neither of whom shoot handguns all that great.

.
Click to expand...

What you said right there is what makes a pistol caliber carbine very sensible, as far as I am concerned. The magazine interchangeability is gravy!

Andy
 
David E said:
With all due respect, the items to buy NOW are high capacity magazines and "battle rifles."

The other stuff is further down their list of "evil guns"

.
Click to expand...

The handgun caliber semi-autos are on the same list as the rifle cartridge semi-autos, both will go at the same time. Actually I expect them to build on the success they had with handguns in the past and go after the "Saturday Night" rifles first. Imports of course will also be among the first to fall.

One thing I think they have overlooked tho is the fact that the same companies they want to put out of business are the same ones supplying arms and ammunition to our military. Without civilian sales they won't stay open long. Wouldn't that be ironic...Obama Bin Laden having to give out a billion dollar bailout to the firearms industry....lol.
 
I like the Beretta Storm a lot. I shot one at the range and was very impressed- it was crazy accurate and a lot of fun to shoot. I liked the 9mm, I don't know if I would go to a higher caliber with it. The 9mm had a suprising amount of recoil to it- it was much harsher than shooting a pistol. I guess because the gun is so light it transfers the recoil straight into your shoulder. I can shoot 9mm and .45 handguns all day long with no problem, but I definitely noticed the recoil on the Storm. I think you don't notice recoil so much with a pistol, because your arm acts as a shock absorber. A .45 Storm would be brutal on your shoulder- it would probably feel like a shotgun.

The 9mm had some recoil to it, but it pushed straight back, so your sights don't go far off target. That made for very fast, very accurate shot strings- similar to what you can do with an AR. Put a red dot on the Storm, and you'd have a very formidable weapon in a light, handy package. The carbine is WAY more effective than a handgun- it is far easier to shoot accurately at any distance. I had a friend with me who had never shot a longarm before in his life, and he was eating the center out of the 10 ring at 50 yards by the end of the day- with iron sights.
 
David E said:
Actually, you said he can't rack the slide on "most semi-autos." ;)

The Glock is one of the easiest to rack.
In my own experience, the folks that had real strength issues also had a weak trigger finger. Now, if he can pull a long, hard trigger thru the DA pull, then you might've solved the problem, presuming he can solve HIS problem in 6-8 shots or less.
If your Dad might have trouble depressing a relatively light springed button on the Beretta 86, then I'd have to doubt he'd have the strength to pull a DA trigger all the way thru. Evenso, could he quickly reload a revolver if necessary?

If the only real concern is racking the slide, then perhaps someone could rack it for him in advance. Keep a few loaded mags around and he should be set.

Another option is a .22 semi-auto. The hard part here would be loading the magazines, but you could do that for him in advance.

But is this concern for a defensive gun one that he brought up to you, or one that you think exists? The answer would make a difference in how you proceed.

.
Click to expand...


Yer right, I did say that... :o
However, between my brother and I, we've tried 1911's, Glocks and the Beretta 96... He currently has a revolver in .38.

The problem is, he's in his late 70's, has gone thru chemo/radiation and dropped from 6'4"/230#'s to under 6" and @170#'s and is now trying to recover from a broken hip on top of all that, with major lack of strength issues. As well, this is driven by his requests, as he's ex-Military and expects to still be the Defender of the Home... Ya, pride is still an issue.

We have also explored the idea of setting the gun up for him, like using a Beretta with a magazine disconnect, one in the chamber already, and several magazines available... Thwart the inquisitive grandkids, who rarely visit, or the suprise visitor in the middle of the night who actually gets the jump on him...

However, the idea of a small carbine in an easily manipulable format might be best for his stated needs...

But, it may just end up being another slightly larger revolver in the same caliber until he can transition to something a little "heavier"...

I do appreciate all of y'all's input. Especially, Abintheur, that pic of the .410... As he used to be a better than expert pump-shottie user, that would simply let him fall back into his habits of old and should be familiar enough to take care of that odd moment that may crop up...

:thumbup:
 
One other that I forgot about (rather silly of me as I use one myself in my home...lol) is the M1 Carbine. The action is very easy to use on them, good defensive ammo is readily available (Cor Bon DPX), and the price is not too bad if you are a member of the NRA. With a 15 round mag in place and two more on the stock you have 45 rounds at your disposal. If you do go with the 30 round mags make sure you swap out the mag release for a M-2 version.
 
Absintheur said:
The handgun caliber semi-autos are on the same list as the rifle cartridge semi-autos, both will go at the same time.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

The first thing they'll do is try and reinstate the AWB, with further restrictions and NO sunset provision.

Handguns, for the most part, were not part of the AWB.

High capacity ("full" capacity, really) magazines were on the list.

AR's and such were on the list. Next time around, they won't leave out the ones that got overlooked last time.

Semi-auto handguns would probably be next in line, once the AWB II takes effect, so maybe we're picking nits here.

But it's one reason to buy the semi-auto/high cap ANYTHING now, along with the magazines FIRST. In fact, if you know which gun you want, buy MAGS NOW, gun later. (but not too much later) Magazine availability and prices have already been affected since Tuesday night.

That single action .22 revolver is safe.........for a little while, anyway.
 
I have a .45 LC pistol and a .45 LC lever gun.

Also have the Carbine Caliber Pistol ;)

Have a .30 M1 Carbine and a .30 M1 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk pistol
 
Originally Posted by David E

I have a Keltec Sub rifle, because it FOLDS into a very small package. Add a 33 rd Glock mag and I'm able to ruin somebody's day, all day, out to 50-75 yds. So can my daughter and wife, neither of whom shoot handguns all that great.
Click to expand...


Andrew Colglazier said:
What you said right there is what makes a pistol caliber carbine very sensible, as far as I am concerned. The magazine interchangeability is gravy!

Andy
Click to expand...

My main point is, the Keltec FOLDS. If I was going to have a 9mm carbine that was the same size and weight as a .223 (and sometimes cost) then I'd have them shoot the .223 and get greater range, better long range accuracy and power in return.

.
 
I would go with the Cx4 Storm if I were you since you already have a 92FS. As far as I know the Cx4 only accepts Beretta magazines anyway so it seem logical. Plus price wise 9mm ammo can't be beat!
 
David E said:
I disagree.

The first thing they'll do is try and reinstate the AWB, with further restrictions and NO sunset provision.
Click to expand...

I don't think they will try that route, not with the Republicans having filibuster power. I think instead Soros will try to push the UN firearms treaty down our throats. Yes, Soros, not Obama. I have a feeling that is who just got elected. Obama will do whatever Soros tells him to do, that is obvious and the UN Firearms Treaty will strip us of our rights far faster than the assault weapons ban ever could.

Btw...I was speaking of sub-caliber semi-auto rifles, not handguns above.
 
The HK MP5/HK94 is still the standard by which all shoulder-fired, pistol-caliber firearms are judged.

My go-to in this class is an HK94 S.B.R. Top end is "k" configuration, but with MP5-length barrel threaded for a 2-point can. Ammunition is 147-gr. Stock is from Ace, on their MP5k end-cap (Ace has a new adaptor for AR stocks; ordered mine yesterday so I can install a U.B.R.). Optic is Aimpoint CompM4s with 3XMag. I also run a L.A.M. and Sure-Fire with infra-red filter. This particular gun has over 22,000 rounds through it without a single part failure.
 
Absintheur said:
I don't think they will try that route, not with the Republicans having filibuster power.
Click to expand...

Republicans had filibuster power in 1994 and it passed. Some repubs even voted for it.

I think instead Soros will try to push the UN firearms treaty down our throats. and the UN Firearms Treaty will strip us of our rights far faster than the assault weapons ban ever could.
Click to expand...

I think we can agree that no matter what tact they take, it will NOT be good for gunowners in the USA. :mad:

Put off that gun purchase at your own risk ! Prices have already gone up since Tuesday.

.
 
I never cared much for my Storm, the trigger is pretty rough and in NY it's limited to 17 round pre ban magazines. I ended up selling it, I really could not picture a serious situation where I would want a pistol carbine over an AR15. Most police departments are dumping their pistol caliber carbines in favor of AR15s. I liked it as a fun little range gun, but that's about it.

This guy has a pretty nice little "Storm Pro Shop"

http://www.houtsenterprises.com/cx4.html

If I was committing to a Storm I would buy plenty of magazines and whatever spare parts it might need. If there is another ban it will probably also prohibit the sale of replacement parts for banned weapons. I'm not that familiar with the storm and have not seen any with a lot of rounds through them, I am guessing that the bolt and some springs might be worth having.

If there is another ban it will be much harder finding parts for a storm than for more common military based long guns.
 
Absintheur said:
One other that I forgot about (rather silly of me as I use one myself in my home...lol) is the M1 Carbine. The action is very easy to use on them, good defensive ammo is readily available (Cor Bon DPX), and the price is not too bad if you are a member of the NRA. With a 15 round mag in place and two more on the stock you have 45 rounds at your disposal. If you do go with the 30 round mags make sure you swap out the mag release for a M-2 version.
Click to expand...

Absinthuer, I just talked w/my brother - he has one, set up as you stated, my Dad's qualified with it... well, at least some thirty or more years ago....
So, that's is prolly the way we'll go!

Thanks for y'all's input!

Still, I'm going to the gunshow this weekend - more PMags, Glock mags and ammo for me! And if I'm lucky, something else for the safe! :D
 
Aimless said:
If there is another ban it will probably also prohibit the sale of replacement parts for banned weapons.
Click to expand...
While anything is possible, I don't see how that could be logistically possible or legally enforceable in any way. The ATF/Govt has authority to regulate Firearms and Ammunition Feeding Devices (I.E. magazines) but since when do they have authority over springs and pins?

Can you imagine the kind of document that would have to be drafted that would define what a "firearms part" is versus a "piece of metal"? And then what? It would have to be specific to be legal and any specificity would then be exploited, just like we exploited the last ban to make "post-ban" AR's. If the ban had gone the way they wanted the first time, there would have been NO AR's, not just pre and post-ban.

"A firing pin for an AR-15 is defined as a rod with given dimensions... bla bla bla"
So they find some dumb way to change the dimensions.

"A firing pin for an AR-15 is defined as a rod used to strike the primer of a cartridge... bla bla bla"
OK, so then the sites/stores just sell them as "AR-15 firing pin look-alike paper weights. Not for use in an AR-15: for novelty purposes only."

What is the Govt going to do, have every single part serialized to prove whether the firing pin in your AR is old or new?

What about springs?

Also, what if a part for a banned arm is a common part shared with an allowed arm?

I don't doubt that we are seeing some harsh laws coming, but replacement parts seems like way too big of a game to get into.

I realize that they regulate full-auto parts, but those are only for the fire control group, no? And it's easy to prove whether or not someone stuck those into a firearm that was never registered class 3. But the idea that the Govt would be able to regulate the sale, possession, transfer, or installation of tiny metal parts that are exact replicas of tiny metal parts that you previously owned seems far-fetched.
 
ThinkOfTheChildren said:
While anything is possible, I don't see how that could be logistically possible or legally enforceable in any way. The ATF/Govt has authority to regulate Firearms and Ammunition Feeding Devices (I.E. magazines) but since when do they have authority over springs and pins?

Can you imagine the kind of document that would have to be drafted that would define what a "firearms part" is versus a "piece of metal"? And then what? It would have to be specific to be legal and any specificity would then be exploited, just like we exploited the last ban to make "post-ban" AR's. If the ban had gone the way they wanted the first time, there would have been NO AR's, not just pre and post-ban.

"A firing pin for an AR-15 is defined as a rod with given dimensions... bla bla bla"
So they find some dumb way to change the dimensions.

"A firing pin for an AR-15 is defined as a rod used to strike the primer of a cartridge... bla bla bla"
OK, so then the sites/stores just sell them as "AR-15 firing pin look-alike paper weights. Not for use in an AR-15: for novelty purposes only."

What is the Govt going to do, have every single part serialized to prove whether the firing pin in your AR is old or new?

What about springs?

Also, what if a part for a banned arm is a common part shared with an allowed arm?

I don't doubt that we are seeing some harsh laws coming, but replacement parts seems like way too big of a game to get into.

I realize that they regulate full-auto parts, but those are only for the fire control group, no? And it's easy to prove whether or not someone stuck those into a firearm that was never registered class 3. But the idea that the Govt would be able to regulate the sale, possession, transfer, or installation of tiny metal parts that are exact replicas of tiny metal parts that you previously owned seems far-fetched.
Click to expand...

I am not sure you understand the power the Federal Government and the ATF in particular have seized. Could you imagine going to jail for rubber plumbing washers? How about because the Feds lost a piece of paperwork out of a rolodex? How about because your 1911 broke and doubled at the range? People have been jailed for all of these things and more by the ATF. It has become a case of guilty till proven innocent with then. And yes, someone has gone to jail for a paperweight simply because he had a pound of blackpowder (avid BP hunter) as well as a novelty fake grenade paperweight.
 
Do you need a handgun permit to buy something like the SUB-2000, or do you buy it as you would a long gun?
 
Foilist said:
Do you need a handgun permit to buy something like the SUB-2000, or do you buy it as you would a long gun?
Click to expand...

It is NOT classified as a HANDGUN by the BATFE or Keltec. This is because it is impossible to fire while in the folded position. (excluding ball peen hammers acting as firing pins, anyway) ;)

YOUR local laws may, but that is doubtful.

.
 
Last edited:
David E said:
It is NOT classified as a rifle by the BATFE or Keltec. This is because it is impossible to fire while in the folded position. (excluding ball peen hammers acting as firing pins, anyway) ;)

YOUR local laws may, but that is doubtful.

.
Click to expand...

You did mean to say "... NOT classified as a handgun....." didn't you, David?

It is a rifle, not a handgun.

Andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top