pistols in survival?

1. Sights - no comment other than I've always
heard that peep sights are more accurate. I've
always preferred the "V".
2. Deer round - .357 mag would be the minimum
choice. That being said I have it on good
authority from an old hunter I know that a .22lr
to the head will drop a whitetail where it stands.
(however the head can be a small target easily missed, a
body shot w/.22 will most likely result in the deer dieing
days/miles later)
3. Shoulder stock - why not go ahead
and carry a rifle?
4. Hunting range of .22lr pistol - probably 25-30
yds. normally assuming 6" barrel pistol and decent
sights. It might go further with practice and adjustable
sights. Thought "alco141" had good comments.
I can hit beer cans 3 out of 5 times with a 6"
barreled .357 mag at 50 yds., but it took me 4 yrs of
practice and ammo switching to get there. The .22lr
makes a lot of sense for most situations in the US,
however if you live in an area adjacent to dangerous game
such as bear or mountain lion, etc. the .357 mag would be
the minimum caliber choice.
 
I've been mulling over the same question myself for a while, and I think I've settled on my Ruger Sp101 in .357. I should add that this is a COMPANION piece to my Springfield M6 (.22 over.410). With the M6, I have most general hunting functions covered, but I carry it broken down in my pack. I opt for the .357 snubby on the hip for immediate (read: urgent,surprise! kill-or-be-eaten,emergency) use. I am still fine-tuning the mix of loads to carry; e.g. shot,jacketed ball and HP.

If you are ruling out a long gun entirely, I think several of the models already mentioned will serve you well. Follows some comments on a select few:

Ruger single-six: Awesome gun. Loads of fun to shoot and very versatile.

Ruger MKII and variants: My best friend was on the West Point pistol team. Guess what they used?

Browning Buckmark: In my opinion, there is not a more comfortable, natural-pointing handgun than almost any Browning. My only, very slight, complaint is that, out of the box, the slides are usually very stiff. Lots of shooting will fix that though ;)

If you want to step up to a centerfire bullet-launcher, I would only suggest that you not make the carry weight of the ammo too much of a factor in your decision. Any centerfire rounds are going to be much heavier than a brick of .22s. I'm carrying three different calibers of three or four different loads each. I justify the weight with the idea that it's difficult to improvise bullets in the boonies. You can decide for yourself where you line up on the endless revolver vs. semiauto debate. Remember that you want a light gun with a long sight radius. These are trade-offs, so find a compromise you can live with.
 
How accurate is your Ruger SP101?
I'm wanting a revolver for concealed
carry and the SP101 looks rather good.
 
Originally posted by MacHete
...I think I've settled on my Ruger Sp101 in .357.... I am still fine-tuning the mix of loads to carry; e.g. shot,jacketed ball and HP...
Click to expand...

Originally posted by scotjute
How accurate is your Ruger SP101?
I'm wanting a revolver for concealed
carry and the SP101 looks rather good.
Click to expand...

I have carried a 1-1/8" SP-101 .357 (w/ Hogue monogrips instead of the factory ones) and I loved it. In this size category, there are no other revolvers that can compete with the raw strength of the Ruger's frame. I bought mine because it was the only .357 snubbie that I felt comfortable firing the type of HOT rounds out of it that I carry for backcountry protection. As far as factory loads, IMO the best for BC defense is Cor-Bon 180gr JSP, Cor-Bon 200gr 'penetrator' (TMJ), and Federal's 180gr cast-core. I have had reliability problems with Winchester's 180gr. partitions (though Win. is usually very reliable...). In my handloads, I use hard cast 180gr. bullets. I would suggest staying away from heavy XTPs in .357. I have found that their jackets separate at high velocity when striking bone or hard objects (not a good thing against a big hairy angry critter). Remember, snubbies are meant for 7-10 yrd self defense use...they are not intended to be that accurate.

The advantage to a small DA revolver is its reliability and power....at the expense of weight and capacity. The weight thing didn't bother me...and capacity (over the 5rds of an SP-101) shouldn't be an issue is most circumstances. The best off-hand groups (no pressure invoked) I have been able to get with my SP-101, using HOT loads) is about 3-4" at 25 yds....and that's no easy trick. This is plenty good enough for what it was intended for...

A final note: I hunt whitetail with a 6" 686 (.357), iron sights. I have never shot twice, and I have never had an animal run too far. If you are a good marksman, have the patience and willpower to take only GOOD SHOTS, and your quarry is light skinned, <200lbs.; a .357 should work for you.
 
I'm sure I have less than a thousand rounds through my SP101, and what I have fired was mostly to pattern factory loads. With that disclaimer, I will say that I can keep everything inside the paint of an NRA 25yd. pistol target at 12yds. That won't get me to Camp Perry to be sure, but I am confident in my ability to engage a dangerous target(wild boar, black bear or two-legged polecat) within the "definite-threat" range.

Recommendations from friends that reflected rigormootis's experiences above are what sold me on the gun in the first place. No cause for regret so far.

Incidently, my SP has the slightly longer, 3 1/16" bbl. but still qualifies as a snubby.
 
I do like the looks of the SP-101, but I just have a "problem" with a 5 shot wheel gun. It's just a pet peeve of mine, that has no basis in rational thought. I would love an SP-101 in .32 magnum, though. Ammo's more expensive, but some loads come close to .38 Specials in effectiveness, and the .32 is a 6 shooter. :~} Plus, the ammo's quite a bit smaller than .357, so you could carry more.

But, on a serious note, I have been working on a stock for my HP-22. It's just a piece of aluminum "wire" about 1/4 in diameter, and bent into an approximation of a shoulder stock. So long as it isn't *attached* to the gun in anyway, it's perfect legal. And this thing weighs nothing. Or, you could get yourself a C&R C-96 or Hi-Power with a stock, and be perfectly legal. With a C&R gun originally made to be used with a stock, you don't need to register it as a "short barreled rifle" and pay the $200.00 tax stamp. Of course, those may or may not be the best "survival pistols" out there. But there are lots of options, as this thread has pointed out.
 
My choices would be a 22/45 and/or a Redhawk in .44 magnum. I tote both daily in the vehicle now and would consider them the backbone to my survival battery. Chances are I'd have one or both ON ME when a gun was needed. That can't be said of most rifles...
 
Well the point about poachers and the effective use of 22s has been made. However no one hit on the sights. You will get a better sight picture with square notch target sights. I reccomend a three dot for getting of the fastest most accurate shot. (just my personal experience) another option that would be useful in a survival situation would be some kind of lazer aming device they can be effective on game and intimidating to man. so even if you have a wimpy little 22 you know exactley where that bullet is going. My preference would probably be a 357 the possibilitys of types of ammunition are limitless 38 -357 and they even make shot loads for increasing hit probability on snakes. I even saw a 357 they sell that packs 3 double ought buck balls inside. then you have ball , hollowpoints from a-z and on and on and on however I would never take a single action. Slow reloads really grind me. Also I have seen many a "cowboy" fumble the hammer on single actions (my father shoots at S.A.S.S. events, that is what happens when ya grow up watching too much Roy Rodgers as a Kid) If I were defending I dont think I would like to loose any time cocking a hammer,and not many of us have the time to become the worlds next Bob Munden.
 
Originally posted by MacHete

Incidently, my SP has the slightly longer, 3 1/16" bbl. but still qualifies as a snubby.
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Very nice! I have often wished I had bought that one instead of the 2-1/8...if only for a *bit* more accuracy. I never did because I reminded myself that I bought the gun for 1) close range and 2) ease of carry. Still, with an open-muzzle SOB or pancake holser, your gun would be very nice! :)

Right now, my SP-101 is secured away with a 4 speedloaders of hot Fereral 125gr JHPs...ready to be stashed away in one of my unit's Embark crates... For now, I will carry my "new" pre-ban Glock 20 for my backcountry SD. Besides, I bought an extra slide/6" match-grade hunting barrel so I can mount the factory ghost ring sights on it...thus, if I can ever get over my irrational aversion to hunting with an auto, this gun would make for a great whitetail hunter.
 
Spydie, part of deciding what type of "survival gun" to go with is first figuring out what "survival" means to you. I think that an SA would be a great *foraging* gun, which is why I chose the gun and calibers I did. For myself, survival is about staying fed and maintaining a low profile, to avoid the possibility fo needing a "faster" gun. But, were I in or near a big city, where there was a better chance of encountering hostile humans, or large, dangerous game, a bigger bore and faster reloads would be mandatory. But out where I live, a Single Six would be just about perfect, for all the reasons I stated.
 
Originally posted by V Shrake
But out where I live, a Single Six would be just about perfect, for all the reasons I stated.
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Well spoken. My father never felt the need to carry anything other than his Blackhawk .44...I don't blame him. If I had the money, I may carry a big bore SA wheelgun once in a while too. So far though, I have 'only' DA revolvers and an auto... oh the humantity...the misery...;) :D ...If I do, a single-six would definately be high on my list.
 
I have a lot of different firearms that I use for different purposes, but if I could only take one with me, and I had to carry it everywhere, it would be a Taurus Titanium Tracker in .357 Magnum. I think the .357 Magnum is the most flexible round out there. Likewise, the Titanium Tracker is a tremendously flexible firearm that gives you a genuinely stainless finish, light weight, small size (4" barrel), and reasonable capacity (7 rounds).

I have been successful in silhouette competitions out to 100 yards, despite the short barrel. This pistol is very accurate and the adjustable sights let you get the most out of the sight radius. A rifle would be better, but at a fraction of the weight and size I think this is a fair tradeoff.

--Bob Q
 
To me having a choice between a single action and a double action revolver is a no brainer. Calibers aside I would choose the double action, Im suprised you guys didnt reccomend a Ruger old army. Besides dont you think that talking an entire whitetale for one man is a bit excessive. There is plenty of smaller more plentiful game that can be had with greater ease. Unless you are carring a fridgidare around with you. Dont even tell me you are going to smoke the whole deer. I simply dont belive that a 22 is sufficent , to Be Prepared was the motto . That means prepared for as much as there is to possibly go wrong. Given the choice of one gun That would be a D.A. .357 magnum. There is something I just thought of a great compromise and I have to admit that Im suprised that nobody has suggested it a Single action automatic 1911 with a Cliner .22 cal. conversion kit I know that legal 16 inch barrels and shoulder stocks are avaliable for them. Hey there ya Go 22 and 45 rifle and pistol. And its even single action for those of you who insist on it!!!
 
I like my stainless Ruger MKIIwith fixed sights and 4in barrel. Deer are almost out of the question in my mind. Not that I'd pass on one given the chance but they are hard enough to find using buck lure and all the trimmings during season let alone when you are hurt,lost,or worst yet running away from someone/thing. I see a lot more birds,rabbits,and squirrels in my travels than large game. As far as defense People and cats fall to .22 all the time especially with accurate double taps. Bear would be harder but I think they are far from the reality scenario but 10 .22s would give me confidence if one approached.I also like the fact that 500 rounds carries as well as only 100 rounds of almost anything else. Field stripping MKIIs is usually a factor to most people but hey if you don't train then you aren't prepared anyway.I can take mine apart and get it back together fine.With my MKII though it isn't always needed. I've gone through 500 rounds without a cleaning on a couple occassions just to see where it stopped and every time I finished with an extremely dirty but still firing gun:) Just make sure whatever you carry, regardless of caliber or design, is a reliable and safe firearm.
 
Originally posted by Spydie Man
Besides dont you think that talking an entire whitetale for one man is a bit excessive. There is plenty of smaller more plentiful game that can be had with greater ease.
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Agreed...but a .357 is a good choice because it allows you to take animals up to deer-sized game...they do not have to be your primary quarry. Besides, I was talking about my experiences hunting deer (during hunting season), not in survival situations.
 
First of all, there's no such thing as "too much Roy Rogers":D

Second, I don't think a whitetail is too much for one man to use in a survival situation. I want that hide and sinew, those bones and bladders. I think this is a very good return on a one-bullet investment. Yes, it is a lot of meat, but have you ever had real sun-dried pemmican? Yum! You don't have to smoke it, just find some salt.
 
Yeah sounds great. Meat rotting in the sun flies all over it with ants from every direction,bacteria thriving and every scavanger in the region looking for a easy secondhand meal vultures circling. Sounds really practical to me and salt curing is great assuming you are in Utah and salt is just lying around but the last I knew salt had to be mined (such as the salt mine under Detroit ) I know these are great romantic notions for an armchair Grizley Adams however you have to look at realistic survival. I enjoyed your fantisy with you though sounds neat until one dose some Thinking. Have you ever really put yourself in that situation with an entire deer alone In the outdoors with a gun and knife alone?
 
Wow, what a cynic :rolleyes: I guess I have some credibility issues with spydie. That's Ok. In the interest of keeping this forum friendly and focused, I have posted a new thread on the question of efficient deer use feasability where the combatants can duke out their points of view.

We now return this thread to its originally scheduled topic...
 
Originally posted by Warriorsociologist
Did I mention it is a Pre-ban with 15rd. mags....?;) :cool:
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Ahhhh... no, you didn't. But that's so much more the better. :cool:
 
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