Pix -- some very, very old khukuris.

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

Joined
Mar 5, 1999
Messages
34,096
Here are three old khukuris which are on display in Nepal's National Museum. My notes are not to be found but I believe these khukuris are in the 250 year age frame.

Uncle Bill

<img src = "http://members.aol.com/yangduspag/pict0.jpg">
 
Of particular interest are the handles. Note that they are thicker in the center, thinning towards the ends, in contrast with the modern handle design which is thinner in the center. The "hilts" on either end of the handle will prevent the hand from slipping off the handle. Any speculations as to the reason for the thick centers on the handles?

There seems to be a concern with protecting the hand in these designs, as the hilts are larger than what would be needed to prevent slipping. I would venture that these are combat weapons from an era when blade to blade combat was a more probable occurrence than it is today.

Bill, do you remember the approximate dimensions? Do you have any guesses as to the weight?
 
Howard, as I recall those were big khukuris, a couple of feet, and I'd guess them to be in the 2 to 3 pound weight range. Most of the khukuris in the museum were weapon oriented and handles were made to "serve and protect."

Uncle Bill
 
Those are the classic "tarwar" handles found on Indian pieces.
These were described to me by the folks from The Royal Armoury when I was trying to research those 'tourist' models I have that were made in the early 1800s (1815-1860s is the latest guess).
They say this design is a result from the borders being so blurred (pre 1800) where Gurkha and Indian tribes were fighting with and against each other.
Great stuff Bill, thanks!
By the way, what has inspired you to start digging thru the infamous 10,000 picture collection?

------------------
JP
 
Hi John:

In Nepal they call the tarwar "tulwar" -- another one of those near misses that we run across all the time.

After Prithivi Narayan Shah unified Nepal with the help of the first Gurkha fighting force Nepal had military success against its neighbors, including India. I believe that had the British not been involved Northern India might well be a part of Nepal today.

I ran across that picture by accident -- naturally while looking for something else.

Uncle Bill
 

Those are beautiful.Each unique in its shape. The center one looks kind of like an Ang Khola in the way the blade is structured. The left one looks like it has a ridge along the top like a Yatagan (sp) interesting.
I find the "D' guard intriguing too.
What was that you were saying about overkill in another thread Uncle Bill?
smile.gif
I have to admire the Strength it took to use the blade and the guard! WOW.


------------------


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---¥vsa----&gt;®
 
Yvsa, this is purely a guess on my part but I tend to believe that the center khukuri is the grandfather of today's Ang Khola.

And, Mike, WOW is what I thought when I visited the museum first time. They have some wonderful old -- ancient! -- examples there and I must dig thru my file of 10,000 and post a few more.

Interestingly, pictures of displays are usually not allowed and all cameras must be checked with museum guards before entering the museum. My brother-in-law, Jeevan, was able to convince officials that a few pictures of the displays in magazines and newspapers could only help and the officials agreed with him. His argument along with a nice "donation" to the museum is how we got the pix.

Uncle Bill
 
Would the center khukuri be classified as a "tin charra?" It looks like it has two ridges and 3 depressed areas.

Here are two possible theories about the hump in the handle, neither very convincing.

1. It helps secure the grip because the user can wedge part of his hand between the hump and one of the hilts.

2. It prevents all of the fingers being cut by an opponent's blade. Only the fingers on one side of the hump are cut, the hump providing a measure of protection to the others.

Does anyone have comments or other theories? Are similar humps in use on any modern knives? If so, what rationale does the maker give for their existence?
 
Howard, that center khukur might well be classified as a tin chirra.

I have held such khukuris with the talwar grip and the bottom guard is a real pain. If I had to use one I would get rid of the bottom ring which cuts into the wrist constantly. Little wonder many of the old Gurkhas wore leather gloves.

Uncle Bill
 
Anybody else notice the pommel resemblance, especially on the far right one, to the V42 with it's skull crusher? The others are differently shaped but look as if they could still be used as such. Could the now flattened out pyramidal piece between the buttcap and peened tang be a vestige of an ancient larger piece on weapons that was used for just that purpose?
 
If you mean the butt being shaped to look like an eye, I'm sure you're right, Uncle Bill. I certainly didn't intend to suggest otherwise.

I was just pointing out that the resemblance made me wonder if the pyramid shaped spacer might have evolved over time from a functional weaponry device to a less functional symbolic one. I don't think the two explanations have to be mutually exclusive. Just one of those wild hairs that occur to you now and then... "gee, I wonder if?" For that matter, looking at the 18th century I've noticed that it's points at top and bottom of the buttcap are longer and sharper and look like they could do some nasty damage too. It's just plain fun to speculate sometimes. Rusty
 
Rusty, you have heard that old saying, "old too soon, smart too late!" The older I get the less I know.

All I know are old stories I have heard from old kamis and Gurkhas. Some of them might have some basis of truth, others could be dreams. I have heard the keeper is another reminder of the four directions, four winds, etc. but there is no way to prove this one way or another so you could be entirely correct. I like to consider speculations so keep on speculating!

Uncle Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 19 June 1999).]
 
Four sided pyramid shaped keeper = four directions/winds. I like that! Good story.
 
Rusty, I don't know if the story has any real basis or not. It is one of those campfire tales we all hear but it is a neat story.

Uncle Bill
 
:
I thought I would bring this back up for a couple of reasons.

1 - To remind Uncle Bill about finding some more old pics like this and sharing them with us,as if he isn't busy enough.What was that about "Hard work never hurt anybody."
smile.gif


2 - to show some of the new people these beautiful old blades.
And to notice in the thread where I commented about the center one looking similar to an Ang Khola and Uncle remarking that He thought it was probably the fore runner of the Ang Khola.
Then recall what Pala said about the Gelbu Special being called a "Full Ang Khola."
Kinda interesting.ainnit?

These are definitely the old curving Khukuris wouldn't you say?

------------------


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---¥vsa----&gt;®
Cornbread ain't s'possed ta be sweet!....Dagnabit gurl,whut did they teach you way up north in ....;) hehehe.


 
Folks,

As a complete neophyte in the design and use of edged weapons...

Could the palm swell help in power transference? Maybe not designed for comfort as some modern handles seem to be, perhaps there is an increase in force delivered to the target: from the back/shoulder, through the upper arm/elbow, down the forearm and through the wrist, into the palm and along the blade...

Yeah, OK, it's a stretch
smile.gif


Cool pics, Uncle Bill - Thanks!


Nick
 
In re: palm swell - with any sword-type thing, you have to deal with the problem of centrifugal force pulling the tool from your hand. there are several ways to deal with this: hold on tight, flare the ends of the handle, or swell the middle of the handle. My friend tried pretty much every way to carve a handle for a sword, and used them in hitting various targets. His conclusion was that a handle with flared ends gave very positive retention, but hurt his wrist on impact much more than a palm swell design.

------------------
Namaste,
Jeff Paulsen

"Oh, a magic khukuri. Why didn't you say so?"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top