Please define a "Sheath Knife" for me

sambo. said:
I'm in Australia.

the purpose of this exercise is to get "the man in the streets" definition of "Sheath Knife".
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Sambo - you should have posted this in the Community Section under Asian and Australian Knife Community. Suggest you read the sticky there on importing knives into Australia - the only link missing is the one to QLD - my bad

Now to everyone else who thinks they know better - I refer you to this definition of what is prohibited under "sheath knife" as defined under the various Australian Weapons Acts - here's one example as used in NSW (& copied word for word by the ACT)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/wpa1998231/sch1.html

Now I can't make head or tail of this definition either unless you replace the 2nd occurence of the word "sheath" with the word "blade" = an OTF - I assume the person writing this at the time wasn't just being intentionally difficult to understand but was either badly hungover or tripping on Mariuana or LSD. I can tell you what isn't a "sheath knife" under this definition. If you intend to import a fixed blade knife that's got a separate sheath - this is not conidered a "sheath knife" as defined under Australian law and will not be a problem unless ACS considers it to be a "dagger". Please note that some Australian States (like SA) also prohibit possesson of a dagger without a license. Not sure why they don't ban letter-openers since these are clearly daggers - (blade size is not stipulated in the descriptons of what defines a dagger)
 
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antonio_luiz said:
Sambo - you should have posted this in the Community Section under Asian and Australian Knife Community. Suggest you read the sticky there on importing knives into Australia - the only link missing is the one to QLD - my bad
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i'd already read that post.

i just felt that to avoid potential hassles i would contact Customs directly regarding the exact models of knife I am interested in.

antonio_luiz said:
Now to everyone else who thinks they know better - I refer you to this definition of what is prohibited under "sheath knife" as defined under the various Australian Weapons Acts - here's one example as used in NSW (& copied word for word by the ACT)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/wpa1998231/sch1.html

Now I can't make head or tail of this definition other than to interpret it as an OTF - I assume the person writing this at the time wasn't just being intentionally difficult to understand but was either badly hungover or tripping on Mariuana or LSD.
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where i got upset was when the petty little bureaucrat refused to supply me with so much as a link to the Customs definitions.

i can't make head nor tail of that description either.

once I hear back from the ACS, i'll ask them to give me an example of their definition of Sheath Knife.

antonio_luiz said:
If you intend to import a fixed blade knife that's got a separate sheath - this is not conidered a "sheath knife" as defined under Australian law and will not be a problem unless ACS considers it to be a "dagger". Please note that some Australian States (like SA) also prohibit possesson of a dagger without a license. Not sure why they don't ban letter-openers since these are clearly daggers - (blade size is not stipulated in the descriptons of what defines a dagger)
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fyi, my proposed imports are Fallkniven TK-6 along with F1 and S1 blanks. I was also interested in a G1 GARM and a Fairbairn-Sykes or three (i hate having to go up to the target to get my knife after each throw).

i'll just be getting the TK, F1 and S1 Fallknivens and maybe a couple of extra kitchen blades, possibly a Kanetsune Santuko or similar, along with a handful of Clipper 860s (for spares and loaner-blades).

the Fairbairn-Sykes i can get locally at a reasonable price i've since discovered.

the G1 GARM will have to wait.
 
No probs - all starting to make sense now

You will need a B709/B710 for the G1 GARM = dagger - the rest should be fine as the are not daggers

I assume you intend to get the F-S from Pacific Cutlery. With all due respect and despite what their site says about "balance" - the FS is not going to survive repeated throwing. They are designed only for shis-ke-bobbing kidneys or when gold-plated - sitting on the boss's desk as an over-the-top letter-opener. If you want a military knife for throwing, get the Glock - otherwise get one of the SOG throwing blades or one of the cheap chinese made copies of same.

When asking ACS on what knives they allow in, I've found it best to email or snail mail them the manufacturer specifications on each knife, preferably with pictures - make sure you keep the reply in case they get snared on arrival.
 
antonio_luiz said:
I'm pretty sure the 2nd occurence of the word sheath was a typing mistake - starts to makes sense when you substitute blade for sheath = an Out the Front (OTF)
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which begs the question: why the additional category? why not just list such a knife as a switchblade?

and actually, i'm probably going to get the F-S knives via a mate in the Australian Military. if they can't help me, then yes, probably pacific cutlery.

i actually want the F-S knives because i rekon they are kewl :thumbup:
 
Welcome to BladeForums...

And while it is not my job to tell you what to do, I would like to suggest that you help us help you next time, by just telling us what is going on, or what your post is really about...

If you had, instead of getting a bunch of replies that are meaningless given your circumstance, we could have directed you here...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=716


A forum dedicated to folks who are in Australia, and other places near there... And they would be able to tell you much more than a guy like I could, who lives in Idaho, in the US of A.

And, if you had went to that forum, after having been directed there, because you told us what you actually wanted to know...

You would have found a thread, which is dedicated to the very question you are asking...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692689


But, then again, maybe you really wanted to know what a guy in Idaho thinks about sheath knives...

Marion
 
Marion David Poff said:
Welcome to BladeForums...

And while it is not my job to tell you what to do, I would like to suggest that you help us help you next time, by just telling us what is going on, or what your post is really about...
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there is a reason i didn't give too many details in my opening post: I didn't want to prejudice anyone's answers. i wanted peoples instinctive definition of the term "Sheath Knife".

Marion David Poff said:
If you had, instead of getting a bunch of replies that are meaningless given your circumstance, we could have directed you here...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=716


A forum dedicated to folks who are in Australia, and other places near there... And they would be able to tell you much more than a guy like I could, who lives in Idaho, in the US of A.
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i am aware of the existance of that forum.

and FYI: the responses I have received here are far from useless. quite the opposite in fact, they have been very useful.

they have given me substantial ammunition which i can now use to whack a petty bureaucrat at Customs over the head with.

Marion David Poff said:
And, if you had went to that forum, after having been directed there, because you told us what you actually wanted to know...

You would have found a thread, which is dedicated to the very question you are asking...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692689
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had you read this thread, you would know that i am well aware of antonio_luiz's excellent thread on importing knives into Australia.

Marion David Poff said:
But, then again, maybe you really wanted to know what a guy in Idaho thinks about sheath knives...

Marion
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By Jove, He's Got It!

you've understood the point of this thread.

I don't care if you are in Idaho, Calgary, London, Berlin, Sydney or Johannesberg. i want to know what knife-knowledgable peoples instinctive definition of the term "Sheath Knife" is.

if knife knowledgable people can't figure out what customs means by "Sheath Knife", then how is Joe Public supposed to figure it out when the Customs service fails to provide their definitions?
 
sambo. said:
there is a reason i didn't give too many details in my opening post: I didn't want to prejudice anyone's answers. i wanted peoples instinctive definition of the term "Sheath Knife".



i am aware of the existance of that forum.

and FYI: the responses I have received here are far from useless. quite the opposite in fact, they have been very useful.

they have given me substantial ammunition which i can now use to whack a petty bureaucrat at Customs over the head with.



had you read this thread, you would know that i am well aware of antonio_luiz's excellent thread on importing knives into Australia.



By Jove, He's Got It!

you've understood the point of this thread.

I don't care if you are in Idaho, Calgary, London, Berlin, Sydney or Johannesberg. i want to know what knife-knowledgable peoples instinctive definition of the term "Sheath Knife" is.

if knife knowledgable people can't figure out what customs means by "Sheath Knife", then how is Joe Public supposed to figure it out when the Customs service fails to provide their definitions?
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While I see what you are saying, I think the absolute best that you can hope to achieve is your personal satisfaction.

And honestly, I feel like this thread is more accurately described as, venting and complaining about the tango you did with the customs officer.

What does a 'petty bureaucrat' care about my opinion? Do you honestly, truly believe that you are going to present the results of your informal, un-scientific, world wide web poll to this person, and they are going to say... "Crikey, what a drongo I've been. Thank you for helping me to see the light mate!"

Really I don't mind engaging with you in this wonderful little do-si-do, but maybe you could listen to the caller when he says... "Bow to your partner".

Oh well, good luck getting your cutlery into Australia.
 
hardheart said:
I wonder if the Spyderco Vagabond or Szabo's saca tripas would be illegal.
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given Australian law, probably.

fyi: ALL Benchmade knives with the "Axis Lock" mechanism are illegal in Australia, they are considered "Flick Knives".

Marion David Poff said:
While I see what you are saying, I think the absolute best that you can hope to achieve is your personal satisfaction.

And honestly, I feel like this thread is more accurately described as, venting and complaining about the tango you did with the customs officer.

What does a 'petty bureaucrat' care about my opinion? Do you honestly, truly believe that you are going to present the results of your informal, un-scientific, world wide web poll to this person, and they are going to say... "Crikey, what a drongo I've been. Thank you for helping me to see the light mate!"

Really I don't mind engaging with you in this wonderful little do-si-do, but maybe you could listen to the caller when he says... "Bow to your partner".

Oh well, good luck getting your cutlery into Australia.
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i'm no longer dealing with the petty bureaucrat in question. i have gone WAAAAAAAAAY over his head on this. in fact, if i ever have to deal with said bureaucrat for any matter in the future, i will be requesting that a different officer handles my case.

so far as this forum is concerned, i'm not venting about the actions of one cutoms official. if anything, i'm venting about the absurd "categories" they have for the prohibited imports.

i asked for forum members instinctive definitions of the term "Sheath Knife", i have been provided with forum members instinctive definitions of the term "Sheath Knife".

as such, i personally am quite happy.
 
The only other knife that fits into that category of knives as indicated by australia is the Kershaw Ripcord. At least as I see it.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I only know of one knife from the 1970s or 1980s that used that system. It was a rather flimsy thing with a blade of 420J2, I believe. They had a variety of small EDC items, I can't remmber the company name, though.
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Heh! I remember that knife! It had like a square camo handle and a black sheath over the blade...when you pushed a black button on the handle front, the blade sheath pulled back into the handle. A very clunky design that I never saw again.

Yeah I read the sheath knife bit also in the list and was confused then remembered the blade Esav mentioned and realised it was that. Mind you, you would pretty much have to be a child of the 70's to remember the damn thing. I am not sure what you would call that odd old knife.

If fixed blades with sheaths were on the list then we would have been in serious trouble. On a side note watch out for anything with a fine swedge (spelling sorry) as if it can be sharpened it can be defined as a dagger also.
 
seeing as this has been necrobumped:

my complaint to the Australian Customs Service about the conduct of one of their officers was upheld.

this thread was referred to by myself and was at least acknowledged by the person who dealt with my complaint and he agreed that the term "Sheath Knife" is confusing. although i doubt anything will be done to change it.
 
Regarding this earlier quote:
" Originally Posted by Australian Customs
Knives with a sheath that withdraws into the handle by gravity or centrifugal force and/or pressure applied to a button, spring or other device and made of any material"

Sounds almost like what is referred to here as an OTF (out the front, which 'withdraws into the handle' upon closing). The 'sheath' in that context might be referring to the handle itself (which acts as the 'covering' for the blade, in effect).

Here's one definition of 'sheath' (from Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary):
"a case or covering for the blade of a sword, dagger, or the like."
 
sambo. said:
seeing as this has been necrobumped:

my complaint to the Australian Customs Service about the conduct of one of their officers was upheld.

this thread was referred to by myself and was at least acknowledged by the person who dealt with my complaint and he agreed that the term "Sheath Knife" is confusing. although i doubt anything will be done to change it.
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It was just this sort of thing that (just recently) rallied knife makers & users in the U.S. to pressure lawmakers to redefine 'switchblade' in the Federal Switchblade Act. Interestingly, it was U.S. Customs who brought the whole thing to the fore, when they suddenly decided to 'reinterpret' the existing law to bar the import of assisted opening knives. Up until then, the written law was too vague to differentiate between a true switchblade and an assisted opener. Based on the uproar that followed, the federal law was amended to more clearly define the difference between them.
 
Well, it sounds like they are talking about an out-the-front switchblade, but there was the Tekna back in the 80's. I have one kicking around the house somewhere--when you push the button the plastic sheath retracts into the handle exposing the blade. Kind of stupid, but as a teenager back then, I HAD to have one.

tekna1.jpg

tekna2.jpg
 
sambo. said:
this thread was referred to by myself and was at least acknowledged by the person who dealt with my complaint and he agreed that the term "Sheath Knife" is confusing. although i doubt anything will be done to change it.
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That's exactly what they were called down here during the 80's... I would imagine Federal Customs need to be able to address items as they were known in their State (causing confusion over the border), I obviously don't have one anymore but I think it's nylon "belt pouch" may have survived as a mini Maglite holster LMAO :D
 
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