Please define "mid-tech"

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Insipid Moniker said:
I don't disagree, but I actually think the cash angle makes MORE sense than the custom. I'm gonna be a lot less picky about my $50 custom caplifter than my $1800 production knife. That means that, if you send me one that's already been returned once, I'm going to be a lot more likely to catch any minor cosmetic blemishes or fingerprints that got on the blade, etc. That means I'm more likely to complain, causing headaches and just generally being a pain in the butt.

That's why I think it makes more sense, from a business perspective, to charge the restocking fee based on money spent, not vague definitions.
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I get what you are saying also. Ideally the policy would be different.

On topic to this thread, what KC defines as a "mid tech" or "semi Custom" is defined. It says that a Rockstead is one in the description. Whether any of us agrees with their definition is inconsequential. There is no confusion as how the definition relates to their return policy.
 
So if I owned a retail knife business and defined a Spyderco Military as a hand fit semi-custom no one would have a problem? What about a ZT 0900? What about a bark river with a multitude of handle materials? The whole thing makes my head hurt. You really only can have a custom blade, small scale single maker, large scale single maker, large scale small shop with outsourced pieces, or large scale large shop. I really think the idea of a "mid-tech" falls into the "large scale, small shop" category but that begs the question of when something is large scale or what pieces can be outsourced. The whole thing is ridiculous. It really should boil down to custom, small scale-single maker, or production.

I'm not talking about restocking fees, that thread just brought the question up what can be defined as mid-tech.

Literally, what's the loosest it could be thought of?

For posterity, though I'm really not trying to talk about it, I agree with insipid moniker, they should knock off the whole restocking fees based on classification and either apply it across the board or once a certain price threshold has been reached. But that's their choice and not worth arguing about on my end. It's not my business. IMO the guy should file a BBB complaint, but I wouldn't have done some of the things he did, either.
 
bodog said:
So if I owned a retail knife business and defined a Spyderco Military as a hand fit semi-custom no one would have a problem? What about a ZT 0900? What about a bark river with a multitude of handle materials? The whole thing makes my head hurt. You really only can have a custom blade, small scale single maker, large scale single maker, large scale small shop with outsourced pieces, or large scale large shop. I really think the idea of a "mid-tech" falls into the "large scale, small shop" category but that begs the question of when something is large scale or what pieces can be outsourced. The whole thing is ridiculous. It really should boil down to custom, small scale-single maker, or production.

I'm not talking about restocking fees, that thread just brought the question up what can be defined as mid-tech.

Literally, what's the loosest it could be thought of?

For posterity, though I'm really not trying to talk about it, I agree with insipid moniker, they should knock off the whole restocking fees based on classification and either apply it across the board or once a certain price threshold has been reached. But that's their choice and not worth arguing about on my end. It's not my business. IMO the guy should file a BBB complaint, but I wouldn't have done some of the things he did, either.
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They should classify the products they sell however they see fit. The market will dictate how that is received.

About the BBB complaint, would you believe such a complaint about a different product with no evidence? Sorry but the waffling he did and then the no evidence thing hurts. Now we have 4 threads talking about this pointless subject. No evidence to support the claims and the guy agreed to the terms. Nothing else is to be said on the subject.
 
bodog said:
So if I owned a retail knife business and defined a Spyderco Military as a hand fit semi-custom no one would have a problem? What about a ZT 0900? What about a bark river with a multitude of handle materials? The whole thing makes my head hurt. You really only can have a custom blade, small scale single maker, large scale single maker, large scale small shop with outsourced pieces, or large scale large shop. I really think the idea of a "mid-tech" falls into the "large scale, small shop" category but that begs the question of when something is large scale or what pieces can be outsourced. The whole thing is ridiculous. It really should boil down to custom, small scale-single maker, or production.
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If a dealer started calling those knives hand fit customs i would disagree with them on the custom part. All folding knives though are hand fitted as we have not started employing robotics in knife assembly to my knowledge yet. But even though i disagree with their definition of the knife I dont see how it effects me. I know what it is, how it was made and how much I should pay. I dont ever see a time when even everyone on this forum will agree on the definition. I cant control that and neither can anyone else. What we can control is ourselves, what we read and understanding as well ad accept it or move on and shop elsewhere.

craytab said:
They should classify the products they sell however they see fit. The market will dictate how that is received.

About the BBB complaint, would you believe such a complaint about a different product with no evidence? Sorry but the waffling he did and then the no evidence thing hurts. Now we have 4 threads talking about this pointless subject. No evidence to support the claims and the guy agreed to the terms. Nothing else is to be said on the subject.
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Lets not forget what seems to be a general lack of understanding on how certain knives are made and how they operate. Not understanding these things i feel can lead to poorly drawn conclusions, accusations and misinformation. Evidence would have resolved many if not all the perceived issues. Given what i personally read being said about that knife, lack of proof and knifecenter claiming it was perfect for what it was has me thinking its lack of experience at play here. There is nothing wrong with inexperience but not at the cost of a sellers or manufacturers reputation.
 
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That's the point, if I called a Spyderco a "hand fit semi-custom" it wouldnt be a lie. It still wouldn't be a "mid-tech" thougn unless I'm trying to say that the definition of "mid-tech" is so loose as to include pretty much every knife out there.

Brad Southard sending some blades out to be ground and heat treated while he does everything else himself would be a mid-tech. He makes a lot of custom knives and as far as I know doesn't operate a multi-person assembly line type of shop.

If Rockstead was a one man shop who contracted a couple of shops to make a couple of pieces and then the one person in the shop did all the rest, then sure, I guess they'd be a mid-tech.

I'm going to assume that Rockstead has an assembly line process and there's no single irreplaceable master craftsman doing the bulk of the work. Hence the label "semi-custom." Now there's a meaningless phrase. Hell, my GMC Sierra is semi-custom because I ordered a certain package on the truck. If I had an Opinel and I did some stuff to the handle to make it fit my hand better, it'd be "semi-custom." If I bought a zero tolerance and did nothing but change the edge angle from 20 dps to 15, it'd be "semi-custom" and I could sell it as such. No one would accept that term with that knife though.

What made that Rockstead knife even a "semi-custom?" The dude saw it sitting on an internet shelf, picked it up, and bought it. The company makes others exactly like it in more or less of an assembly line process and sell exact duplicates through their dealer network. How is that knife anything but a production model?

And no, I'm not saying Rockstead knives are low quality. To the contrary, they're some of the nicest production knives I've ever seen. Amazing, really. But they ARE production knives. Them being expensive does not change that fact. Bark River knives are closer to "semi-custom" because you can choose a lot of options for a single type of knife. Busse knives are closer to semi-custom. There's nothing about a Rockstead that makes it mid-tech or semi-custom. Not any more than a pro-tech, a zero tolerance, or a buck.

Hell, the knives I make are semi-custom. They even meet the commonly understood definition of mid-tech. But Rockstead knives don't.
 
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Still I find its easier for me to accept that others wont always bend to my will and accept what I consider to be the proper definitions than it is to get every single dealer that chooses to embellish their data points to change how they do things to appease me.
 
Silly me for thinking this was going to be a discussion about a definition that will never be agreed upon, because one individual(Ken Onion), created it. Instead, the thread quickly devolved into swipes at restocking policy. While I agree with any one who has issues with policy, nobody is twisting your arm to make the purchase. Take responsibility, review terms and conditions, make your decision, accept the consequences. Forget definitions. It's all about marketing.
 
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