Please Help Me Get My HT Oven Working!!!

B

bigern26

Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
380
I just purchased a used Evenheat J.r. Kiln and I need a little help and direction.

I will post up pics of all I got and hopefully some of you can tell me how to put this together and what else I need.

I think I might need a new thermocouple but not sure, The one that came with seems kinda big.

Ok here are pics of everything with a description of what it is :)

2011-03-12_08-38-55_384.jpg

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Ok here are the parts that came with it.

Not sure what kind of thermocouple this is. Has no numbers or anything
2011-03-12_08-48-32_584.jpg


This thermocouple just says: Pyromation K-
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This is the element
2011-03-12_08-51-24_46.jpg


This I think is a length of high temp wire
2011-03-12_08-50-15_172.jpg


Not to sure what this is, some kind of switch?
Says Cherry on it.
2011-03-12_08-49-41_711.jpg


This is an SSR, 480v, 25a. Wrong one I think for 110 setup
2011-03-12_08-49-00_763.jpg


This is another SSR, 60a/250v
2011-03-12_08-51-41_76.jpg


This is the pid, Model I think is TC-408A
2011-03-12_08-51-50_346.jpg


And in the wiring there is the normal wire to plug it in, then there is a little white wire with two small wires in it. I think this is for the thermocouple.
2011-03-12_09-37-29_365.jpg



After doing a little searching I found what I think is the thermocouple and element mounting plate
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=39
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=200

And this is the same type of PID I think
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=132

I am not sure if any of the SSR's will work for the setup I am doing.

Also do I need a heat sink for the SSR?

If any of you knowledgeable guys can help me out I would really appreciate it.
 
how bout contacting the manufacturer with you provided info?
 
Allright, lets have a go.

First your pics are blurry and kind of useless.
This is so much easier to do in person than over the internet.

Get some help in person if you can't handle this yourself.

But let's try to get you started.

Type out all the input and output specs of the controller and the ssr.

Let's have a link to the controller manual

Go to the website of the oven and get a drawing.
Link it to us in this thread.

Give us all the info on the SSR, I can't read it in the pics.


Switch
That switch is a micro switch.
Use it for a door safety switch
It may not be on the schematic drawing, but I think it's smart.
Set it up so that it is operated when the door is closed, you can put small machine screws through the holes.
A couple of short bits of angle iron can be used to setup the mounting.

The pics are blurry, but of the 3 contacts, one is NC, NO and COM
Use COM and NO- that will allow current to flow when the door is closed.
The idea is to cut power when you open the door.

This is to save you from hitting energized coils with foil packets. It's incredible to me why manufacturers would build them without it.

Put it in series with the - input side of the SSR & the output of the controller.


SSR
"This is an SSR, 480v, 25a. Wrong one I think for 110 setup"
Why do you think your SSR's is not right?
It is overrated for the application and that is a good thing.

With the SSR rated at double the 12 amps your element will draw, you may not need a heat sink, but it's simple to put on so I wouldn't skip that.

The important part of the SSR is unreadable
Let's just deal with the one you have and forget about others.
You need to match the SSR input type to the controller output type.
Maybe the person who sold it to you got it right, maybe not, let's check-From what I can tell you are the 3rd or 4th owner of this,

There are 120v AC input and 12v DC input types, both will work as long as you match the input of the SSR to the output of the controller

The 120vAC are more popular since you don't need to add an additional 12v power supply to feed them.

Let's see a good photo, or type in all the info on the SSR you have
the INPUT.

Look up the manual or the back of the controller and determine the voltage on the OUTPUT of the controller.



Start there, let's see some info.
 
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I am unable to find a manual on the internet for anything.

Here are some better pics of the ssr's and the pid.

2011-03-13_15-52-17_326.jpg

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2011-03-13_15-54-24_737.jpg

2011-03-13_15-53-31_272.jpg

2011-03-13_15-53-51_974.jpg
 
You have 2 SSr's ?

great.

The blue one is DC, the Grey is AC
One of them will work, lets find out what the input and output of the PID is


Do you have an electrical meter?


This photo looks like you need to set jumpers for different output types - a manual would really help

2011-03-13_15-53-31_272.jpg




The listing you bought from didn't guarantee the controller right ?
How about hooking up 110vAC power to 1 and 2 on the PID and see if it turns on.

and keep trying to find a manual for the PID
Try looking for a number moulded into the plastic on the back.
Many manufacturers make a controller than put the customers model number on the faceplate.
.
How it is now?
Are some things hooked up?- or is it just a box of bits?
what is hooked up to what ?
.
.
 
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I do have a multi meter but do not know what setting to have it on.
Yes it came with two ssr's,

Right now its just a box of parts, I put the new element in it today and still need to figure everything else out.

I have to leave for work this evening and will not be back until next weekend(semi driver) I will have my laptop with and can get on here sometimes.
I will test next weekend.

Correct the PID is not guaranteed, I have no clue who made it, There are no marking other than what you see in the pics.
 
I'm not in any way trying to discourage you from using that PID, but I can say, as someone who has made part of their career in industrial automation, that you can get a VERY goot PID control, for VERY cheap nowadays.

The reason that is something to consider, is that if you were to work with a company like Watlow or Omega, they have SUPERB customer support, and it's pretty much unlimited, at no cost.

The $100 for a new PID could end up being well worth the buckets of knowledge you get from walking through setup with a qualified tech.



If you would like to use this unit, and are not able to get it set up just from forum post advice, please PM me and maybe we can set up a skype video chat, and I'll give you a hand with setup.

I'm also somewhat experienced with kilns, I spent a good chunk of my life as an amateur potter.
 
 
Ernie,

I'm no electrical wiz but this doesn't seem too complicated to wire up and get functional. As for operating instructions and programming that may be another story.

I've got an Auberins PID on my forge and looking at the manual the terminal numbers are different but all the electrical symbols are the same so following the symbols from the Auberins manual should get you up and running.

Looking at the front of the PID -
AL1 = Alarm #1
AL2 = Alarm #2
AT = Auto tune
Out = Power output to the element when lit.
PV = Process Value or the actual temp inside the oven
SV = Set Value or your target temp

The thermocouple you've got there is a type K and is what you want.
The yellow wire will connect the thermocouple to the PID.
It is big but the part of the thermocouple that reads the temp is the very tip and the rest can be trimmed to the desired length.
The ceramic part in the pic with yellow wire is a mount for the thermocouple. It can be mounted to the outside of the oven with two screws in the end slots. I can take some pics to show how to mount the thermocouple to the oven if you want.

The wiring diagrams seem very confusing but it's not that hard to figure out.

Terminals 1 & 2 = 110V input ( wire a cord with plug here to plug the PID into the wall.
Terminals 6 & 7 = Output to SSR's input side
Terminals 9 & 10 = Connect directly to Thermocouple with yellow wire ( I don't know what RTD input is but you be using TC (thermocouple) input so no jumper wire is needed to terminal # 8

SSR output side wires to the element

I'd connect the third wire from the 110v cord to the box that houses the PID.

Also worth mentioning that the diagram I'm looking at shows a fuse on one of the 110v input wires and also a fuse on one of the wires between the SSR and element.

I'm fairly sure the J1 & J2 labels are the terminal where alarms would be connected if desired. Actual alarms also require an outside powersource as they are NOT powered by the PID itself.

I can set an alarm on my evenheat but have found it really not needed as the cycling of the SSR makes an audible click when kicking on and off which lets you know your at temp. I've turned the alram off on all my programs anyway because you just have to get up and go turn the alarm off once it goes off.

My oven does NOT have a door switch. The purpose of this is so you don't zap yourself if the blade your putting in touches the element. My oven is quite a bit bigger than your Jr model but with the elements recessed into the walls and being just a little cautious you shouldn't need to worry about having a door switch. I personally would rather have the element on when the door is open to maintain the heat.

That's my take after using my Evenheat quite a bit and wiring up a PID control on my forge.

Good luck, Josh
 
Thanks guys!!!!

Josh,
Do you know what SSr I need to use out of the two I have?
Also could you show me how the thermocouple is wired up to the mount and then to the control?

Do you have the wiring diagrams in file version?

Thanks for all the help, I am trying to figure this out :)
right now the little white wire (for thermocouple?) is hooked to the ssr.

When I get home this weekend I am going to hook power to the pid to see if it turns on. Also what size wire would i use to hook the pid to the ssr and ssr to the element? I have a little high temp wire.

Also how do I hook up the element? Right no there is two recesed holes in the back of the oven with the element wires coming through.

Thanks for anymore help I really appreciate it.
 
Does this diagram look right?

Also what size wire do I use to hook everything up? can I use regular auto wiring to hook up the pid to the ssr or do i need a heavy solid wire?

And how do I hook the high temp wire to the element?

Thanks for any help!

HTovenwiring.jpg
 
I am on my way to menards right now, If anyone could chime in on size and style of wiring I need for inside the box that would be really appreciated.
 
I have a the mager ssr like you have on one of my ovens. Your diagram looks good from the pid to the ssr. The pid needs a seperate 110v power source, no ground required but guess you can use one. I am guessing your oven is 110v, you will need to take the oven power cord and form a loop for the circiut to travel or your going to have a dead short at the ssr.
it's not hard to do, cut the plug off your ovens power cord, then one leg off the ovens power cord is wired to one leg off another power cord you will use to plug the oven up for a power source. I bought a six foot heavy drop cord and cut the female plug off one end. Then the two legs that not attached to anything are attached at the ssr's output . That makes a loop in your circuit for the power to flow around.
Your oven needs to be set on high and left alone. To turn it on and off plug in the oven first then plug in the pid. To turn it off unplug the pid first. All temperature adjustments are made from the pid.
There are other ways to wire it up so that your ovens control switch works for the off/on switch but I found I like this way better because I can adjust the pid without the oven being on.
I used 12ga solid wire from the pid for the ssr input but it is over kill. Use the high temp wire you have for the heating coil. A lamp cord is fine for the pid power source but you need a heavier cord for the oven, it draws more amps, the cord on the oven will work fine if it has one.
I probabley left somethng out but the main thing in hooking up a pid a ssr is to not over think it and form a loop for the circuit from the ssr to the coils.
Think of it this way, the pid, thermocouple and ssr are working together. The thermocouple sends the temp to the pid that sends a signal to the ssr to keep the power flowing through coils or to interupt the power flow to maintain a temp.

My pid is exacly like yours and works quite well, my ovens will hold temps to +/- 1 degree, you will have to set up your pid and will need the instructions to do so. They can be downloaded at a site I can't remember right now but I'll look to see if I can find it. One other thing you will need a heat sink for your ssr or it will not last long.
 
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bigern26 said:
I am on my way to menards right now, If anyone could chime in on size and style of wiring I need for inside the box that would be really appreciated.
Click to expand...

14 guage stranded for the heavy load wiring
110v input from the wall to the control box

PID control to the SSR input can be smaller

SSR output to the elements you are going to use that high heat wire and it should be 14 gauge too.
 
J. Hoover said:
I have a the mager ssr like you have on one of my ovens. Your diagram looks good from the pid to the ssr. The pid needs a seperate 110v power source, no ground required but guess you can use one. I am guessing your oven is 110v, you will need to take the oven power cord and form a loop for the circiut to travel or your going to have a dead short at the ssr.
it's not hard to do, cut the plug off your ovens power cord, then one leg off the ovens power cord is wired to one leg off another power cord you will use to plug the oven up for a power source. I bought a six foot heavy drop cord and cut the female plug off one end. Then the two legs that not attached to anything are attached at the ssr's output . That makes a loop in your circuit for the power to flow around.
Your oven needs to be set on high and left alone. To turn it on and off plug in the oven first then plug in the pid. To turn it off unplug the pid first. All temperature adjustments are made from the pid.
There are other ways to wire it up so that your ovens control switch works for the off/on switch but I found I like this way better because I can adjust the pid without the oven being on.
I used 12ga solid wire from the pid for the ssr input but it is over kill. Use the high temp wire you have for the heating coil. A lamp cord is fine for the pid power source but you need a heavier cord for the oven, it draws more amps, the cord on the oven will work fine if it has one.
I probabley left somethng out but the main thing in hooking up a pid a ssr is to not over think it and form a loop for the circuit from the ssr to the coils.
Think of it this way, the pid, thermocouple and ssr are working together. The thermocouple sends the temp to the pid that sends a signal to the ssr to keep the power flowing through coils or to interupt the power flow to maintain a temp.

My pid is exacly like yours and works quite well, my ovens will hold temps to +/- 1 degree, you will have to set up your pid and will need the instructions to do so. They can be downloaded at a site I can't remember right now but I'll look to see if I can find it. One other thing you will need a heat sink for your ssr or it will not last long.
Click to expand...

Whoaw, So I need two Power cords? How do I hook one up to the element and the pid and ssr and not have a problem?
I thought the power going into the pid brings power to the ssr and then that goes to the element?

I am dumb cause I cannot figure out how to do this and everything will work.
so power going to the PID is just for power to control the output cycles of the ssr's power going to the element?

Is there any way you could maybe draw that up for someone who don't understand.

I cannot figure out how the ssr and element would wire to one cord without having current going back into the ssr from the power cord. If that is the case how would the pid control anything if there is no split between the three?

Sorry for sounding really dumb but I am really confused right now that you added a second power cord.
 
12345678910 said:
14 guage stranded for the heavy load wiring
110v input from the wall to the control box

PID control to the SSR input can be smaller

SSR output to the elements you are going to use that high heat wire and it should be 14 gauge too.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will have to look for some wire tomorrow at the hardware store.
Can Regular automotive wire 14ga be used to hook PID to SSR?
 
bigern26, you can do it with one power cord, but using two cords is the easiest way or was for me. I hooked the pid, thermocouple, and ssr up before I ever started messing with the oven.
You can use the 14ga multistrand from the pid to the ssr, it is very low dc voltage.
Does your oven have a heat control switch or any wiring present to the coils?
The high temp wire you have should run from your coil to the switch if it has one on one leg leg and to the power source on the other leg

All the ssr does is regulate the power going to your heat coils. It breaks the connection when the pid tells it to.

The power cord on your oven has three wires, black is hot, white is neutral, and green is ground. Get another power cord and connect the the black wire from each cord together using a wire nut. Then hook the whire wire from each cord to two connection points on the ssr's output. Connect the two green wires together using a wire nut.

You have to form a loop for the power to flow around or you get a short. To do that you either use two cords like I descibed or one leg from your power cord connects to one side of your coil. The other leg in your power cord connects to the srr output. Then you connect another seperate wire from the other side of your ssr's output to the other unconnected side of your coil, this forms your loop.
Your srr can handle up 480vac flowing thru it. Hooking it up like this requires that you either pick up a seperate 110v power source from your oven, like from a on/off light, or using a seperate power cord.

One other thing if you use two power cords they are seperate. One hooks only to the pid in the location you show on your drawing.
The other cord only hooks to your oven and ssr.
 
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