plotting to survive...

M

mdole

Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
237
Here's the deal, I'm new to this forum, but I frequently think on what I would do to survive if A, B, or C happened. On this forum I'm sure I'm not alone, so allow me to spin out a scenario and let the survival plotting begin!
P.S.- Feel free to edit and include your own scenario, this should be both fun and educational.
A bomb goes off in the nearest population center to you (nuclear, biological, chemical, conventional, you decide) and you need to not only weather it out in your home for a few days, but possibly weeks and months without outside (read: government) assistance. What do you do/take/go?


I always think about heading to the hills, setting up camp somewhere with a year round stream, not too far from a lake I know to be fisherman friendly, and game abounds. I think I'd bring a large tent I use for car camping (canvas circa 1960's) just for the rugged and durable nature of the material, and then progress to a more permanent (and camouflaged) shelter solution. I'd fish (easiest for me) and subsist off of stored (canned) goods until I could familiarize myself with the local edible flora and fauna (best done beforehand, I know) and start a survival garden. I think if disease or another surviver didn't get me, I could last up there for quite a while. How about you? GO!
 
If you live in a large city, I think the biggest problem would be getting out of the city. The roads may be grid locked. You may also have family spread about the city, such as at work, school etc., so you may need to think about how to round them up. Cell phones may useless, the service may be congested or just plain unavailable.

For where I am, unless there was an immediate threat, I would tough it out at home.
 
Well, as you'll see, the folks here are sticklers for details and there are a lot of questions bout your scenario. I'll start with some basic questions before we can proceed. Are you interested in the whole scenario, just the immediate response after the disaster or are you most interested in the long term scenario (ie, you survive and are OK, but need to make long term plans)? Fill those blanks in and we can have some fun. The perfection oriented crew here are sticklers for the smallest detail so some will pass over and some will give you super long answers. Make sure you are clear with all your info first. By the way:
WELCOME TO BLADEFORUMS!
 
Yes, welcome to bladeforums, specifically Wilderness skill's and survival.

Here comes what I have to say. ;):D

I am lucky enough to be involved with government, and local law enforcement. Not to mention, all emergency services. That said, with the work I do, my duty would be to stay in the city, and help who I could, there for, my family would be priority to get out, then I would need to return, or depending on what was left, leave with the group I am partnered with.

SAR, fire department, law enforcement, and all government agencies would be tasked with the safety of the populous. Having taps in all of that, and specifically SAR I couldn't leave.
While I would like to jump ship, and get my family the heck out of dodge, they would have to stick it out with me. But, it wouldn't be me deciding that, they wouldn't leave unless I told them it was in their best interest. Honestly, it would have to be pretty bad for us to get out of town. I would rather have my resources that are at the house to have access to.

If civil unrest was to break out, I would not think twice about my familys capability to defend them selves, they could do it no better than I. My fiancé Is just about as experienced with firearms as I am, just as my brother, I would expect nothing less of them but to defend my other siblings, as I would have other things to do.

What I have to think about goes beyond my family, the people in the city also have familys that would be in danger, there for I have multiple responsibilities, to my family and the people who reside in the city.

Luckily, I'm in a fairly small town of 60,000. Its not a bustling metropolis.


So, long story short, depending on the severity of the situation, It would have to be a pretty bad thing for me and my own to jump ship. I would rather have the resources of the government on my side. :D
 
Hmmmmmmmm.
Thankfully, that is something I never have to think about again.

A volcanic eruption,however, is another story........
 
I may be wrong, but I think the only reason to move out of your house would be if staying there could be detrimental to your health, like if the area got contaminated or if violence got to such a level that you couldn't effectively defend yourself or your family. Though about the violence scenario the only situation that I can think of where that would happen, short of a zombie attack, is if your city got invaded by a hostile army or the country went up in flames because of a civil revolution.

Except if you really couldn't stay at home, I think your house would be the best place in the world for you to make camp (if you have access to water and food, of course).
 
Welcome!
I think the problem with running to the hills is two-fold.
1. Half of your local population will have the same idea. The reality of hiding and surviving alone is probably closer to moving in to a new neighborhood. We see this in a more gradual scale today. As crime increases, people move away from the city center. People who bought houses in the boondocks 10 years ago are now right next to a Starbucks. With a SHTF scenario, the exodus will just be more extreme. The hills will be alive with sound of thousands of people doing exactly the same thing. Which brings me to point number 2
2. Somebody owns those hills. If it is you, you will have to defend them, or invite others to join you. If somebody else owns them, they will defend them, come there at some point to defend them, or hopefully ask you to join up.

Wherever we go people will be there (there are too many of us to be alone), so my advice is to hone those same skills, but in the context of doing the greatest good with your new neighbors, you might need them too.

Alan
 
I don't know if this has been brought veryone seems to bring up the fact that half or most of the population will do the same as you.

This may be true in some parts of the country where people still have the skills and confidence to be self sufficient. In my neck of the woods however, I think more people would be inclined to wait for the "authorities" to come up with a plan. I feel the closer you are to a metropolis, the more sheeple there are and the less likely you are to find another as inclined like you.
 
Most people seem to have the instinct to flee, whether they have the skills or not. We have seen it during war, natural disasters, etc. I think people are wired to go somewhere they feel safe. If you look out your window and see one of the neighbors getting out of dodge, you will probably be inclined to do the same even if your only skill is cranking the car. Whether it's disease, an attack, or whatever, people will run away in the right context. I doubt people will say, "Hey Bob, look at that mushroom cloud, I'm sure the government has this under control. I'll just wait to see what someone tells me to do.". Especially given the political and economic malaise we see today. I think there would be panic and most people would take there cues from the people around them at the time. It just takes one person to run for many to follow. Sheeple yes, but probably following other sheeple, not a sheperd.

Alan
 
Yes most people will flee but due to human nature this will dissolve into chaos very quickly. People will be getting trampled, shot, stabbed, run over by cars, beaten, mugged, and there will likely be a few fires; and this is not even from whatever caused the problem in the first place. It would be a short amount of time before all peacekeeping and organizational forces were useless. Essentially everyone would revert to basic animal behavior only concerning themselves with themselves and their families, and that's only if they care about their families. People would eventually be herded like a crazed, every man for himself bull run by our own barriers, bridges, buildings, etc. And this doesn't even take into account the people that would be trying to film the whole thing for their 15 minutes and narrating it like a sportscast, just like we saw with 9/11. Isn't modern society wonderful? The amount of people that even made it to the hills to try and survive would be small, and the amount of them that would actually survive would be even smaller. Of coarse, I thinking about big cities like New York City, the smaller the urban area the smaller the risk of this type of rioting.
 
in various bomb scenarios, i wouldn't worry about rolling out too soon, and i have a large family.

a lot of worse things are going to happen from panicked folks exposing others, in several situations.

there are so many resources laying around, and things to eat right where you are in the city. if the air is full of fall-out, you don't want to be grid-locked in your car on the highway breathing that stuff.

dig in if you are nervous. not much except a direct hit that can get you in a hole in the ground. this last statement presumes you are not in a floodway of course.

HEPA filters and clean room strategies are worth looking into. Ron Hood did some research on that lately.

i think if you are a responsible citizen, you should be gradually stocking water and food anyways - gasoline and propane too maybe, so you don't have to rush out on the first wave, which i think will be not as bad as the second wave of exodus, but longer in exposure.

if i was going to leave, i'd take my time, and scout out ahead of my group, or have another member do it. careful wins. do clover-leaf patterns as much as possible, so that if you get nailed, your opposition wouldn't be sure where you were coming from, and track the main group readily. this is all before considering that comms might be in play.

if a bomb went off here, i'd head upwind out to sea, out of the fallout if it was present.

we practice this a lot. - we call it "fishin'."

vec
 
Last edited:
mdole said:
Here's the deal, I'm new to this forum, but I frequently think on what I would do to survive if A, B, or C happened. On this forum I'm sure I'm not alone, so allow me to spin out a scenario and let the survival plotting begin!
P.S.- Feel free to edit and include your own scenario, this should be both fun and educational.
A bomb goes off in the nearest population center to you (nuclear, biological, chemical, conventional, you decide) and you need to not only weather it out in your home for a few days, but possibly weeks and months without outside (read: government) assistance. What do you do/take/go?


I always think about heading to the hills, setting up camp somewhere with a year round stream, not too far from a lake I know to be fisherman friendly, and game abounds. I think I'd bring a large tent I use for car camping (canvas circa 1960's) just for the rugged and durable nature of the material, and then progress to a more permanent (and camouflaged) shelter solution. I'd fish (easiest for me) and subsist off of stored (canned) goods until I could familiarize myself with the local edible flora and fauna (best done beforehand, I know) and start a survival garden. I think if disease or another surviver didn't get me, I could last up there for quite a while. How about you? GO!
Click to expand...

First, Welcome. Not trying to bust your chops personally, but for anybody that has thoughts of heading to the hills during a widespread / longterm SHTF scenario it is the worst idea and should be a last option for most, including those (me too) on this forum.

~ When was the last time you killed wildgame, cleaned, cooked and ate it in the field?
---- Were you truly tired, hungry, and thirsty when you did?
---- Did you have your loved ones in tow with you when you did? How will they do when they are tired, hungry, thirsty and being dragged acrossed the countryside?
~ Have you ever hunted, trapped or fished while watching your back?
~ How much do you plan to carry when you have to abandon your car?
---- How long will that food last?
~ How are you going to defend yourself when asleep?
~ Have you ever tried to go primitive, even for a short-time?
~ When was the last time you grew a successful garden without manmade pest control and fertilizer?
~ When was the last time you did manual labor with handtools for farming?
---- What are your plans B, C, and D if your crops fail?

I am not saying there won't come a point that one shouldn't bug out and head for the hills ~ you should keep a B.O.B. for such a time. However, if it comes to that in a longterm / widespread deal, that your odds are not good. So many will be doing the same and at that point anything goes. How do you think Joe 6-pack is going to behave when his wife and kids are starving and looking to him to provide? Anything goes! Food will be the most limited resource.

Bugging out to an unstocked location in the hills should be plan C or D; think about preparing your home, a stocked retreat, and/or having a cache hidden away from your home if you are in a city/suburbia. Unfortunately, defending it will be critical too. It is OK to look like a sheeple sometimes too, just don't act or prepare like one.

Here are a few reading suggestions and resources...
http://www.survivalblog.com/precepts.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703462&highlight=checklist
http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-Keeping-Your-Alive/dp/1586852345
http://www.amazon.com/When-All-Hell-Breaks-Loose/dp/142360105X
http://drum-runners.com/
 
While I feel that personal preparedness (including skills, gear, and supplies) is absolutely important and the cornerstone of a survival strategy, I am increasingly of the opinion that the 'go it alone' and 'head for the hills and live off the land' approaches to disaster response are just not realistic. For one thing, I disagree with the notion that things will quickly devolve into an 'every man for himself' state of affairs. Of course there are examples of selfish and predatory behaviour in survival situations, but there are also plenty of examples of people volunteering, pulling together, and providing assistance - both alongside and in the absence of government support. All of which is to say that it would take one hell of a perfect storm of circumstances to make me contemplate a long-term 'go it alone in the woods' strategy. Better to contribute to - and benefit from - group efforts, IMHO, be they rescue and recovery or something more drastic.

All the best,

- Mike
 
Millhouse said:
If you live in a large city, I think the biggest problem would be getting out of the city. The roads may be grid locked. You may also have family spread about the city, such as at work, school etc., so you may need to think about how to round them up. Cell phones may useless, the service may be congested or just plain unavailable.

For where I am, unless there was an immediate threat, I would tough it out at home.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you talk about the roads being grid locked.
Here in British Columbia, the ministry of Public Safety has what they call
the Provincial Emergency Program. If some major disaster happens in the
city of Vancouver (for instance), they have a working plan to close down
roads and cordon off the city in to sections so that you won't be able to
get in or out in the type of situation that the OP described.

So bugging out to the bush or some other place that you might think of
as being safe, might not be an option.

Probably good to have a couple of different options available....
bugging out, bugging in, having the family meet at an area central
to everyone, things like that.

By the way mdole, welcome to Bladeforums.
 
Seems like we just did a thread like this not too long ago. Still, these threads are always interesting to me, because I always learn something new.

The answer to the OP's question is: it depends. No, no, it really does. There are no cut and dried answers, because the scenario would vary depending on the location and type of disaster, and the people involved.

I can only speak to what I would do in my location, and why I would do it. What would it take to constitute a disaster worth running away from for me? Not much.

A nuclear detonation? Well, that would certainly do it — if I were left alive to worry about it. Since I’m in a prime target area, about the best I could hope for would be enough warning to bend over and kiss my beloved @$$ goodbye. We probably wouldn’t get that much warning, though.

A massive biological episode? There’d be nothing I could do about that, so I’d probably just ride it out and let the authorities deal with it... if they can.

There are actually a number of things that would constitute an EOTWAWKI scenario, so I won’t go into all of them. Here’s the one that I’ve actually researched and thought about the most, because it’s actually the most likely.

You ready? We run out of electricity. As in, it stops; quits; goes bye-bye... there is no more. Okay, okay, I can hear all of you saying “Dawson, you dummy, that’s absurd,” and for where you live, it might be. Where I live, however, it would be a total disaster. Why? Because the world, as I know it, would come to a screeching halt.

It would take only a terrorist attack to knock out the power grid, or an EMP pulse, or any one of several other things to unplug San Diego. It doesn’t really matter how it happens, the result would be the same: devastation.

Now, in most places, losing power would be an annoyance: here, it’s a disaster. Here In San Diego we have no water of our own: it has to be pumped in (no electricity, no pumps). Should the grid go down, there will be no food, no transportation, no communications, etc., etc., etc. Panic in the streets; people dying; a total breakdown of society within days. Did I mention the part about no water? This is a city of roughly three million people. Take away their water and, well, think about it.

There would be no transportation. Period. Even if you have a car that works, you’re not going anywhere. Even if you could get to a gas station, the pumps won’t work, but that wouldn’t matter anyway, because the roads would be closed by dead and abandoned vehicles. Talk about gridlock.

What are the authorities going to do? Nothing. Nothing at all, because they can’t. Their vehicles won’t be going anywhere, either. They won’t have effective communications. They — police, fire, military — might want to help, but there would be nothing they could do. Well surely the government will fix the problem quickly, won’t they? A better question is can the government fix it? It depends on how widespread the problem is, doesn’t it?

As for me, I’m not waiting around to find out how ugly it can get. I’m putting on my walking shoes, and heading for the hills. Yeah, but what about the thousands and thousands of other people who have the same idea, you ask. It’s going to get pretty crowded out there, isn’t it? I don’t think so, because most people aren’t going anywhere if they can’t drive. Most people don’t have the training, the equipment or the mindset to walk out of town to the mountains. Mostly, though, they’ll tend to wait for the government to come in and fix the problem, so they’ll stay until it’s too late. Sure, there’ll be a few people taking to the hills, but not as many as you might think. San Diego County is a big place, bigger than some Eastern states, so I think there will be room for those of us who do bug out. For me, I’d rather ride it out somewhere in the boonies. Who cares whether you have electricity out there? I’ll be comfortable.

All this is just my two cents worth, but it’s what I’ve considered for my area. I hope it never happens, of course, but if it does, color me gone.
 
abo4ster said:
First, Welcome. Not trying to bust your chops personally, but for anybody that has thoughts of heading to the hills during a widespread / longterm SHTF scenario it is the worst idea and should be a last option for most, including those (me too) on this forum.

~ When was the last time you killed wildgame, cleaned, cooked and ate it in the field?
---- Were you truly tired, hungry, and thirsty when you did?
---- Did you have your loved ones in tow with you when you did? How will they do when they are tired, hungry, thirsty and being dragged acrossed the countryside?
~ Have you ever hunted, trapped or fished while watching your back?
~ How much do you plan to carry when you have to abandon your car?
---- How long will that food last?
~ How are you going to defend yourself when asleep?
~ Have you ever tried to go primitive, even for a short-time?
~ When was the last time you grew a successful garden without manmade pest control and fertilizer?
~ When was the last time you did manual labor with handtools for farming?
---- What are your plans B, C, and D if your crops fail?

I am not saying there won't come a point that one shouldn't bug out and head for the hills ~ you should keep a B.O.B. for such a time. However, if it comes to that in a longterm / widespread deal, that your odds are not good. So many will be doing the same and at that point anything goes. How do you think Joe 6-pack is going to behave when his wife and kids are starving and looking to him to provide? Anything goes! Food will be the most limited resource.

Bugging out to an unstocked location in the hills should be plan C or D; think about preparing your home, a stocked retreat, and/or having a cache hidden away from your home if you are in a city/suburbia. Unfortunately, defending it will be critical too. It is OK to look like a sheeple sometimes too, just don't act or prepare like one.

Here are a few reading suggestions and resources...
http://www.survivalblog.com/precepts.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703462&highlight=checklist
http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-Keeping-Your-Alive/dp/1586852345
http://www.amazon.com/When-All-Hell-Breaks-Loose/dp/142360105X
http://drum-runners.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the great questions and links...my chops are intact thanks! I started this thread b/c I didn't find another like it (didn't look in the right places perhaps?) and I simply wanted to gain perspective from those I've read and consider wiser/more experienced than I am. The differing responses are good though, and I'll be incorporating them (and the questioned skills as much as possible) into my preparation/plotting for survival. I think I might start with learning to better identify local food sources, and being one of the "second wave" to bug out should the shtf. Thanks guys, keep it coming!
 
Iboschi said:
Well, as you'll see, the folks here are sticklers for details and there are a lot of questions bout your scenario. I'll start with some basic questions before we can proceed. Are you interested in the whole scenario, just the immediate response after the disaster or are you most interested in the long term scenario (ie, you survive and are OK, but need to make long term plans)? Fill those blanks in and we can have some fun. The perfection oriented crew here are sticklers for the smallest detail so some will pass over and some will give you super long answers. Make sure you are clear with all your info first. By the way:
WELCOME TO BLADEFORUMS!
Click to expand...


For me, it would be the longer term. I know I can survive the short term with what is on hand (food, water, self defense etc) but the longer term is what worries me. Upon research at my local bookstore I found only Al Gore type solutions to the shtf scenario, and I'm just not sure that his crowd is the most informed about actual problem solving (or anything of use for that matter imho). BTW, thanks for the welcome everyone! :-D
 
mdole said:
For me, it would be the longer term. I know I can survive the short term with what is on hand (food, water, self defense etc) but the longer term is what worries me. Upon research at my local bookstore I found only Al Gore type solutions to the shtf scenario, and I'm just not sure that his crowd is the most informed about actual problem solving (or anything of use for that matter imho). BTW, thanks for the welcome everyone! :-D
Click to expand...

I think Al Gore and his sycophants have pretty thoroughly demonstrated a complete lack of sense — common or otherwise — already.

Stick with all we brilliant, insightful, clear minds here on BF: we'll see you through. Al Gore. Sheeshe.

Oh, and welcome aboard!
 
I'd fish (easiest for me) and subsist off of stored (canned) goods until I could familiarize myself with the local edible flora and fauna (best done beforehand, I know) and start a survival garden.
Click to expand...

How do you plan to haul that many cans to your hidey-hole? Do you already have enough canned-goods ready? Do you have fishing skills to survive? Do you have farming (not gardening) skills + seeds & tools for subsistence farming? Can you carry this plus your cans?

What if 10,000 other people show-up at your hidey-hole, fish-out the stream in one day, scare the game away and crap in the water source?

Unless you are nuked, why not lay-up 30 days (better 3-months+) of food and water purification gear plus defensive capabilities and just hunker-down where you are at?
 
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