plotting to survive...

[udtjim]

Depends on the scenario. I think the Government will be the problem if the SHTF. I don't think you will have the option of staying home and staying alive. There are areas where you could eventually get away from most of the population but it won't be in any of the urban states. You might well survive if you can get to where most people do not want to be.

I was in Minneapolis last week, that Metro area has more people that SD, ND, Wyoming and Montana combined. In a SHTF situation, I don't think that there will be strength in numbers.

You can have a plan but when the worst happens, you will end up winging it and you may have to do things that you can never believe you would do to survive. This does not mean that you should have no plan, but be ready to wing it.

 

[dawsonbob]

Unless you are nuked, why not lay-up 30 days (better 3-months+) of food and water purification gear plus defensive capabilities and just hunker-down where you are at?

Unfortunately, laying up for any protracted period of time wouldn't be an option for some of us.

Still, all the points you bring up are important things that should be considered by most folks when they're thinking of what to do.

 

[d_filgate]

...here’s the one that I’ve actually researched and
thought about the most, because it’s actually the most likely.
.....We run out of electricity.....

This is a very sobering thought. Like Dawsonbob, I've tried to imagine what it would be like if we were faced
with a situation where we no longer have the convience of the electrical grid. It could be disasterous no matter
if you lived in a city of 3 million or a town of 20,000.

What do you think would happen if we suddenly found ourselves back in the 1840's?
No electrical grids to speak of, no telephone, no computers, no running water, etc....

Okay, okay, I can hear all of you saying “Dawson, you dummy, that’s absurd,” and
for where you live, it might be.

Of all the scenario's that people put out there, the loss of electricity is an overpoweringly likely one.
Make no mistake about this though. If the grids were ever to go down, it would affect more than just an area.
Take for example the blackout of the east coast a couple of years ago, or the situation in California during
the summer months over the last couple of years where electricity wasn't always available and there were rolling
brownouts because there wasn't enough to go around.

Where I live, however, it would be a total disaster. Why? Because the world, as
I know it, would come to a screeching halt.

Loss of electricity would be completely devastating to our world as we know it.
If there are doubters to this, just look around your humble abode...see how many things run on electricity,
from the computer you are staring at, to the lights, to your fridge/freezer, television, heat (even if you have
gas, your thermostats all need electricity and your igniters are electric as well), hot water, telephone...and the list goes on.

It would take only a terrorist attack to knock out the power grid, or an EMP
pulse, or any one of several other things to unplug San Diego. It doesn’t really
matter how it happens, the result would be the same: devastation.

Just taking a look at the northeast of North America this winter can give you an idea of how easy it is to find
yourself in a situation where you have no electricity at the worst possible moment. Winter storms have a nasty
habit if knocking out power grids when they are needed the most.
There doesn't need to be a terrorist attack to put you in this type of situation just as DB says...Mother Nature
can do very well on her own when it comes to dealing us sometimes mortal blows to our safety bubble.
Just look at New Orleans and you know that I'm talking the truth.

There would be no transportation. Period. Even if you have a car that works,
you’re not going anywhere. Even if you could get to a gas station, the pumps
won’t work, but that wouldn’t matter anyway, because the roads would be closed
by dead and abandoned vehicles. Talk about gridlock.

Or even worse, as most major cities have some kind of disaster plan in their folders. Instead of there being a
gridlock of abandoned vehicles, there could be road closures enforced by military, cordoned off areas where
you couldn't move outside of your area. FEMA type population control areas. Here in Canada we have in our
province of British Columbia a thing called the Provincal Emergency Program which would use police and military
forces to control large centers in the event of a national emergency situation.

As for me, I’m not waiting around to find out how ugly it can get. I’m putting
on my walking shoes, and heading for the hills. Yeah, but what about the
thousands and thousands of other people who have the same idea, you ask. It’s
going to get pretty crowded out there, isn’t it? I don’t think so, because most
people aren’t going anywhere if they can’t drive. Most people don’t have the
training, the equipment or the mindset to walk out of town to the mountains.
Mostly, though, they’ll tend to wait for the government to come in and fix the
problem, so they’ll stay until it’s too late. Sure, there’ll be a few people
taking to the hills, but not as many as you might think. San Diego County is a
big place, bigger than some Eastern states, so I think there will be room for
those of us who do bug out. For me, I’d rather ride it out somewhere in the
boonies. Who cares whether you have electricity out there? I’ll be comfortable.

I live in a smaller center (roughly 90,000 people), and bugging out is not much of an issue for me.
A couple of hours of nice walking and you can't see me for the trees...if you know what I mean...
Even then, I would have a difficult time leaving my place unless it was absolutely necessary.

I would probably stay where I was as long as I could, as I've got just about all that I need here,
except close proximity to a water source. The river is about a mile away, and although it's possible
to get there and back, it would be a bit too far away for long term survival.
I'd have to work up some kind of pumping system or resettle to someplace that is closer to a water source.


Cheers

 

[d_filgate]

Unless you are nuked, why not lay-up 30 days (better 3-months+) of food and water purification gear plus defensive capabilities and just hunker-down where you are at?

This is good advice. 30 days would give you a fairly accurate picture of
what's happened, and more importantly, what is going to happen.

Having a 3 months supply would be nice, but if the situation was bad, I
think that waiting things out for 3 months might be a little much....still,
you should be able to carry 3 months of supplies with you initially, and
could possibly make return trips for long term subsistence tools, depending
on how far out you find yourself heading.


Just a thought on how often these posts come up.
Some might think that they come up too regularly and that it's a rehashing of ideas that seems to be of a cyclic nature.
My take on this type of post, is that it acts as a refresher for our own plans.
A lot of us take the time to seriously sit down and think about contingency plans for different scenarios.
Well, so do a lot of people in government. It's their job to plan for emergencies, and we need to think of it in
that manner as well.

It's good to have these kinds of posts come up every now and then.
It makes us think about and review our disaster preparedness plans.

 

[dawsonbob]

This is a very sobering thought. Like Dawsonbob, I've tried to imagine what it would be like if we were faced
with a situation where we no longer have the convience of the electrical grid. It could be disasterous no matter
if you lived in a city of 3 million or a town of 20,000.

What do you think would happen if we suddenly found ourselves back in the 1840's?
No electrical grids to speak of, no telephone, no computers, no running water, etc....




Of all the scenario's that people put out there, the loss of electricity is an overpoweringly likely one.
Make no mistake about this though. If the grids were ever to go down, it would affect more than just an area.
Take for example the blackout of the east coast a couple of years ago, or the situation in California during
the summer months over the last couple of years where electricity wasn't always available and there were rolling
brownouts because there wasn't enough to go around.



Loss of electricity would be completely devastating to our world as we know it.
If there are doubters to this, just look around your humble abode...see how many things run on electricity,
from the computer you are staring at, to the lights, to your fridge/freezer, television, heat (even if you have
gas, your thermostats all need electricity and your igniters are electric as well), hot water, telephone...and the list goes on.



Just taking a look at the northeast of North America this winter can give you an idea of how easy it is to find
yourself in a situation where you have no electricity at the worst possible moment. Winter storms have a nasty
habit if knocking out power grids when they are needed the most.
There doesn't need to be a terrorist attack to put you in this type of situation just as DB says...Mother Nature
can do very well on her own when it comes to dealing us sometimes mortal blows to our safety bubble.
Just look at New Orleans and you know that I'm talking the truth.



Or even worse, as most major cities have some kind of disaster plan in their folders. Instead of there being a
gridlock of abandoned vehicles, there could be road closures enforced by military, cordoned off areas where
you couldn't move outside of your area. FEMA type population control areas. Here in Canada we have in our
province of British Columbia a thing called the Provincal Emergency Program which would use police and military
forces to control large centers in the event of a national emergency situation.



I live in a smaller center (roughly 90,000 people), and bugging out is not much of an issue for me.
A couple of hours of nice walking and you can't see me for the trees...if you know what I mean...
Even then, I would have a difficult time leaving my place unless it was absolutely necessary.

I would probably stay where I was as long as I could, as I've got just about all that I need here,
except close proximity to a water source. The river is about a mile away, and although it's possible
to get there and back, it would be a bit too far away for long term survival.
I'd have to work up some kind of pumping system or resettle to someplace that is closer to a water source.


Cheers

It really is a sobering thought, isn’t it? So many people who worry about nuclear blasts, tsunamis, astroid strikes — all the dramatic events in movies — yet never think about something as mundane as the lights going out.

We are so dependent on electricity that it wouldn’t be just the lights going out, it would be lives. There are thousands — maybe millions — of people with medical problems who would simply die without electricity: they’re dependent upon machines that are dependent upon electricity. Lights out for them.

Hospitals? Same thing. Yes, many of them have emergency generators, but those are only meant to run for a few days. When the fuel runs out, what then? People die.

I could go on and on about the ramifications of what happens when the electricity goes out, but I think most people can figure it out for themselves, once they ask themselves what runs on electricity. The easy answer, though, is civilization. With Electricity: civilization. Without electricity: chaos. Or as you put it, we’re back in 1840.

It would be worse than 1840 though. In 1840 they knew no other way, and were prepared for life around them. For us to suddenly be without power would leave us, well, powerless. Society wouldn’t function — couldn’t function.

If the lights go out in many places it would be, as I said, an annoyance — an inconvenience. For some of us though, it would mean no water, no food, no sanitation, no medical care, no... well, you get the picture.

I heard an interesting talk by someone from, I believe, the Museum of Man here in San Diego years ago, and they brought up the topic of water. San Diego is actually considered desert, and only has enough naturally occurring water to support maybe ten to twenty thousand people (at best). All of our water has to be pumped in from other places. When the pumps shut off, there will be three million people without water here. What then?

Like I said, if the grid goes, I go, just as fast as my feeble old legs will carry me.

I think I need to research this more. It really is an interesting — and scary — topic.

 

[mdole]

there's been a lot of talk about electricity "going out," but let's also consider that it might be turned off in a scenario such as a bio attack on a water system. The gov't would be compelled to shut off water and power to a city in such a predicament simply so that the problem wouldn't be exported. Self reliance and having a trusted network of skilled and ready friends and family goes a long way, even in the absence of a shtf nightmare.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Hmmmmmmmm.
Thankfully, that is something I never have to think about again.

A volcanic eruption,however, is another story........

Where I am this is also a possibility. Not only do we have a history of volcanic eruptions, but in this city almost every eruption created a new cone (rather than a volcano that erupts now and then). There hasn't been an eruption in a long time, which means that such an event may be overdue.

What would I do? Probably get the hell out of the city and head to my Mum's place about 80 miles away.

 

[Raining]

I think I need to research this more. It really is an interesting — and scary — topic.

Have you read the book "One Second After"? It is a fictional account of an EMP over the U.S. Very good book, very scary scenario.

Sorry for the little OT.

 

[mdole]

another question, I've been thinking that if one were to "head for the hills" it might be wise to know the location and habits of the original or indigionous people that lived (survived) there. This seems to me the best quick fix I can think of, but I want feedback, so please poke holes in this thought so that we can continue to refine the idea's presented and discussed here.

 

[newknife]

As for me, I’m not waiting around to find out how ugly it can get. I’m putting on my walking shoes, and heading for the hills. .

If I head to the hills and see I guy lighting his fire with a doan magnesium block I'll know I've found you!

 

[dawsonbob]

Have you read the book "One Second After"? It is a fictional account of an EMP over the U.S. Very good book, very scary scenario.

Sorry for the little OT.

Not yet, but it's on my list for sure.:thumbup:

 

[newknife]

Seems like we just did a thread like this not too long ago. Still, these threads are always interesting to me, because I always learn something new.

The answer to the OP's question is: it depends. No, no, it really does. There are no cut and dried answers, because the scenario would vary depending on the location and type of disaster, and the people involved.

I can only speak to what I would do in my location, and why I would do it. What would it take to constitute a disaster worth running away from for me? Not much.

A nuclear detonation? Well, that would certainly do it — if I were left alive to worry about it. Since I’m in a prime target area, about the best I could hope for would be enough warning to bend over and kiss my beloved @$$ goodbye. We probably wouldn’t get that much warning, though.

A massive biological episode? There’d be nothing I could do about that, so I’d probably just ride it out and let the authorities deal with it... if they can.

There are actually a number of things that would constitute an EOTWAWKI scenario, so I won’t go into all of them. Here’s the one that I’ve actually researched and thought about the most, because it’s actually the most likely.

You ready? We run out of electricity. As in, it stops; quits; goes bye-bye... there is no more. Okay, okay, I can hear all of you saying “Dawson, you dummy, that’s absurd,” and for where you live, it might be. Where I live, however, it would be a total disaster. Why? Because the world, as I know it, would come to a screeching halt.

It would take only a terrorist attack to knock out the power grid, or an EMP pulse, or any one of several other things to unplug San Diego. It doesn’t really matter how it happens, the result would be the same: devastation.

Now, in most places, losing power would be an annoyance: here, it’s a disaster. Here In San Diego we have no water of our own: it has to be pumped in (no electricity, no pumps). Should the grid go down, there will be no food, no transportation, no communications, etc., etc., etc. Panic in the streets; people dying; a total breakdown of society within days. Did I mention the part about no water? This is a city of roughly three million people. Take away their water and, well, think about it.

There would be no transportation. Period. Even if you have a car that works, you’re not going anywhere. Even if you could get to a gas station, the pumps won’t work, but that wouldn’t matter anyway, because the roads would be closed by dead and abandoned vehicles. Talk about gridlock.

What are the authorities going to do? Nothing. Nothing at all, because they can’t. Their vehicles won’t be going anywhere, either. They won’t have effective communications. They — police, fire, military — might want to help, but there would be nothing they could do. Well surely the government will fix the problem quickly, won’t they? A better question is can the government fix it? It depends on how widespread the problem is, doesn’t it?

As for me, I’m not waiting around to find out how ugly it can get. I’m putting on my walking shoes, and heading for the hills. Yeah, but what about the thousands and thousands of other people who have the same idea, you ask. It’s going to get pretty crowded out there, isn’t it? I don’t think so, because most people aren’t going anywhere if they can’t drive. Most people don’t have the training, the equipment or the mindset to walk out of town to the mountains. Mostly, though, they’ll tend to wait for the government to come in and fix the problem, so they’ll stay until it’s too late. Sure, there’ll be a few people taking to the hills, but not as many as you might think. San Diego County is a big place, bigger than some Eastern states, so I think there will be room for those of us who do bug out. For me, I’d rather ride it out somewhere in the boonies. Who cares whether you have electricity out there? I’ll be comfortable.

All this is just my two cents worth, but it’s what I’ve considered for my area. I hope it never happens, of course, but if it does, color me gone.

Seriously though...this is a good post and probably something that will be a reality in the future. To me it's not a matter of if but when. I have a friend in San Diego and he's always telling me about the water problem. I didn't know about the electricity issue there though. I wonder how many cities have a similar situation?

 

[dawsonbob]

If I head to the hills and see I guy lighting his fire with a doan magnesium block I'll know I've found you!

Well, at the time I might be using a fire drill, flint and steel or a firesteel (but most likely a plain old Bic). Whichever one I'm using though, come on up and say howdy. The more the merrier (within reason, of course). I'll be the old guy making a fire and setting up camp, that's for sure.

 

[dawsonbob]

Seriously though...this is a good post and probably something that will be a reality in the future. To me it's not a matter of if but when. I have a friend in San Diego and he's always telling me about the water problem. I didn't know about the electricity issue there though. I wonder how many cities have a similar situation?

Yes, it is a question of not if but when. At the moment it looks as though the when will be in 2012 (if something doesn't happen sooner). Why 2012? Well, according to NASA, astronomers and meteorologists, that's when the next big — and I mean massive — episode of eruptions on the sun will take place. The sun cycle runs about every eleven years, and the manifestations (sun spots, etc,) often cause disruptions here on Earth. This next one though, is going to be like nothing we've seen since 1850 something (before there were electrical grids or electronics to worry about). Scientists think this one is going to be a whopper — solar storms of tremendous magnitude, things that will fry not only electronic gizmos, but power plants, transformers, wires... you know, all the things that make up the grid.

Before you start thinking that I'm being alarmist (or I'm just plain nutty), you might want to read this article in New Scientist. I believe it has links to NASA and other sources. Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.newscientist.com/article...rt-90-seconds-from-catastrophe.html?full=true

We've all heard of an Electromagnetic Pulse. Well, this one isn't man made, and it's a thousand times worse. Do we have the technology to avoid it? I really don't know, for sure. I do know that everything I've been reading (I might do an article) leads me to believe that we don't.

As far as the water being tied to the electricity here, that's only because the water has to be pumped in and, no electricity means no water: it's that simple.

 

[vector001]

As far as the water being tied to the electricity here, that's only because the water has to be pumped in and, no electricity means no water: it's that simple.

i respectfully disagree.

i live over in the San Diego area too BTW. not to be argumentative, but i really don't think it's "that simple."

there are seams and seams of springs in the Lagunas roughly parellel to Kitchen Creek Road in east San Diego County.

i really don''t think water will be a problem if you can get east at all. - especially since approaches from the east will be difficult if not impossible after the first panic migrations, due to the desert east of San Diego's mountains off towards Imperial County. Plus there is non-spring-related water sources out there where no one will think to look. those are my old stomping grounds. you are golden, brother.


if you are really worried about losing water and not being mobile, start filling garbage cans full of water - it will regulate your house temperatures and save energy until you need it to drink and wash with, if ever.

it'll be less of a problem if you can get to the ocean, and just desalinate with the preps you've made.


there are also artifical ways to generate dew and collect that, in this dry climate - the fact that we are depending on man-delivered water here is shameful as well as wasteful (i have dove in the Water District's water tanks this year too BTW - you really don't want to be drinking the water anyways unless you test it every time IMHO - at least microwave it before drinking it. - there is some horrible stuff going on in some San Diego water tanks i reckon.)

as to no electricity here - that sounds like a good thing to this vector, but i seriously doubt we will be without electricity here, and if it is interrupted, it won't be for long anyways.

if there is a flare even that takes out electronics, especially all the shileded ones here on the bases and other places, we have worse things to worry about, if we are still alive from all those rads.

so just you come on over for a Margarita by the bay if things get dicey.

try to bring some extra limes. :thumbup:

Semper Fi, brother.

vec

 

[dawsonbob]

i respectfully disagree.

i live over in the San Diego area too BTW. not to be argumentative, but i really don't think it's "that simple."

there are seams and seams of springs in the Lagunas roughly parellel to Kitchen Creek Road in east San Diego County.

i really don''t think water will be a problem if you can get east at all. - especially since approaches from the east will be difficult if not impossible after the first panic migrations, due to the desert east of San Diego's mountains off towards Imperial County. Plus there is non-spring-related water sources out there where no one will think to look. those are my old stomping grounds. you are golden, brother.


if you are really worried about losing water and not being mobile, start filling garbage cans full of water - it will regulate your house temperatures and save energy until you need it to drink and wash with, if ever.

it'll be less of a problem if you can get to the ocean, and just desalinate with the preps you've made.


there are also artifical ways to generate dew and collect that, in this dry climate - the fact that we are depending on man-delivered water here is shameful as well as wasteful (i have dove in the Water District's water tanks this year too BTW - you really don't want to be drinking the water anyways unless you test it every time IMHO - at least microwave it before drinking it. - there is some horrible stuff going on in some San Diego water tanks i reckon.)

as to no electricity here - that sounds like a good thing to this vector, but i seriously doubt we will be without electricity here, and if it is interrupted, it won't be for long anyways.

if there is a flare even that takes out electronics, especially all the shileded ones here on the bases and other places, we have worse things to worry about, if we are still alive from all those rads.

so just you come on over for a Margarita by the bay if things get dicey.

try to bring some extra limes. :thumbup:

Semper Fi, brother.

vec

I know you live in the area too, Vec — West of me, I believe (I’m in North Park).

Perhaps I didn’t explain well earlier. When I said that if the electricity goes out, then the water will be gone, too, I meant exactly that for San Diego proper, and it really is that simple — unfortunately. I’m not talking about the myriad streams and springs that exist in the back country, I’m talking about water for all the people who live in metropolitan San Diego and are dependent upon the municipal water system. That system relies almost entirely on water pumped in from up North and from the Colorado river. That water is pumped in, not gravity fed: without electricity the pumps won’t run. If the pumps won’t run, then there will be no water.

Yes, we have some reservoirs. They contain between three days and a weeks worth of water at San Diego’s current rate of consumption. Not everyone would have even that water available, either. Some areas would be gravity fed, but most rely on pumps: back to the electricity thing again.

Water probably wouldn’t really be a problem for people like you and I — we know too many ways to collect water. But that won’t help the populace of the City of San Diego: we can’t collect enough water for everyone. As I pointed out in an earlier post, San Diego is really classified as a desert, and the available natural water supply (streams, springs, etc.) in San Diego proper, will only support somewhere around ten to twenty thousand people (the estimates seem to vary somewhat, but it’s not a whole lot of people).

As far as going East of here (out of municipal San Diego), things change drastically. If it were necessary to get out of town, one could follow the San Diego river all the way to its source (just outside of Julian), and spread out from there. I, too, know all that area pretty well (hey, its my old stomping ground, too, you know). I think I’ve tramped almost every foot of those mountains at one time or another (okay, not every foot — it just felt like it sometimes), and I know where there are a number of water and other resources out there.

Yes, I’m aware of how bad our municipal water supply is (yuck), but it’s all we’ve got.

As far as no electricity, well, that’s a bad thing for a city. Sometimes I don’t think I would mind, either, but it would bring civilization to a screaming halt. Can it happen? Oh, yeah, it can. Will it happen? I have no idea, but I certainly hope not. If it does happen, though, I think it will be much worse than what you seem to be thinking. I’m not talking about something that simply knocks out your iPhone for awhile, but gets fixed in short order: I’m talking about something that knocks out the entire grid. That won’t get fixed easily or quickly. In fact it could take months to years to bring back online (depending on how widespread it is). As far as living through all those rads, an EMP doesn’t have to emit rads at all, and — with current technology — probably wouldn’t.

If things ever do get all that dicy, I may take you up on the Margarita (I don’t drink, but I could always start). I’d find limes somewhere. You’re over the bridge, I believe, so getting there could be one heck of a trip under those circumstances.

Semper Fi, brother.


Time for me to hit the rack.

 

[vector001]

I know you live in the area too, Vec — West of me, I believe (I’m in North Park).
...

If things ever do get all that dicy, I may take you up on the Margarita (I don’t drink, but I could always start). I’d find limes somewhere. You’re over the bridge, I believe, so getting there could be one heck of a trip under those circumstances.

not drinking is a virtue IMHO, one i don't possess regrettably. - you and the rest of Clan Vector will get along fine. i will be the token mis-behaver and consider yourself always welcome over here if you can use some back-up, brother.

you just call for extraction and i'll send some of my prirates over to grab you, your lady and your cat before ya can say "so long, suckers" to your neighbors.

we leave no one behind. (who is worth saving. )

especially if they have limes.

Semper Fi, brother.


Time for me to hit the rack.

yeah, hit the rack, you thing. :thumbup:

your bud,

vec

 

[dawsonbob]

not drinking is a virtue IMHO, one i don't possess regrettably. - you and the rest of Clan Vector will get along fine. i will be the token mis-behaver and consider yourself always welcome over here if you can use some back-up, brother.

you just call for extraction and i'll send some of my prirates over to grab you, your lady and your cat before ya can say "so long, suckers" to your neighbors.

we leave no one behind. (who is worth saving. )

especially if they have limes.

yeah, hit the rack, you thing. :thumbup:

your bud,

vec

LOL. Not drinking may be a virtue, but it wasn't always like that for me. Let's just say that if a man is allowed one drink per day, I'm good till about the year 2350 or so. There came a time that I realized that I was drinking way too much, so I joined a program over at the VA, and stopped drinking. That was in 1987, and I still don't drink. Almost all my buddies do (grunts: sheesh), but they respect the fact that I don't. Just because I don't, doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer, too. They can party all they want.

I appreciate the offer, ol' bud: who knows when I may need an extraction? Actually, I travel fairly light — no lady at the moment (still looking for a good one), no cat, not even a dog (I miss having a dog).

You sound like me in that I have a crew that I look after, too. Mine aren't as fancy as pirates, they're just a bunch of broken down old grunts who think I should still be in charge of something, for some reason (I'm not, but even after all these years, they still haven't caught on... they may be a little slow, sometimes ).

Keep in mind that extractions can work either way. For now I'll stay here and protect the limes.

Later, bud.

 

[fnc]

I pretty much agree with CWL but wanted to amplify. Others have posted real warnings
to this Romantic Survival Homestead. Read and re-read the posts.

With regard to the evacuated population:

Evacuees will accidently or intentionally start forest/brush fires.

Young evacuees will become criminal scavengers very quickly and
they will steal from everyone. They do this now when they are not supervised.

Likewise, older evacuees will become criminals when they are faced with
starvation.

How do you plan to haul that many cans to your hidey-hole? Do you already have enough canned-goods ready? Do you have fishing skills to survive? Do you have farming (not gardening) skills + seeds & tools for subsistence farming? Can you carry this plus your cans?

You cannot haul enough canned goods, they are too heavy.
You cannot haul enough tools, guns, ammo, etc. ; because they
are even more heavy. Farm/construction hand tools are very heavy.

What if 10,000 other people show-up at your hidey-hole, fish-out the stream in one day, scare the game away and crap in the water source?

A dozen people can overpopulate an wide area for hunter/gather and primitive/garden.
Remember, the land is un-improved: no irrigation ditches, dams, fences, fruit trees.

Even in remote areas it only takes one person to fish-out an area.
And he can scare-off deer while he is fishing.

Unless you are nuked, why not lay-up 30 days (better 3-months+) of food and water purification gear plus defensive capabilities and just hunker-down where you are at?

Agree completely.

 

[dawsonbob]

I pretty much agree with CWL but wanted to amplify. Others have posted real warnings
to this Romantic Survival Homestead. Read and re-read the posts.

With regard to the evacuated population:

Evacuees will accidently or intentionally start forest/brush fires.

Young evacuees will become criminal scavengers very quickly and
they will steal from everyone. They do this now when they are not supervised.

Likewise, older evacuees will become criminals when they are faced with
starvation.

You cannot haul enough canned goods, they are too heavy.
You cannot haul enough tools, guns, ammo, etc. ; because they
are even more heavy. Farm/construction hand tools are very heavy.

A dozen people can overpopulate an wide area for hunter/gather and primitive/garden.
Remember, the land is un-improved: no irrigation ditches, dams, fences, fruit trees.

Even in remote areas it only takes one person to fish-out an area.
And he can scare-off deer while he is fishing.



Agree completely.

While I agree with part of what you (and CWL, with whom I generally agree) are saying, I certainly don’t agree with all of it. That’s okay, though, because a person would have to be a fool to agree with everything someone (including me, of course) says on this subject. There are just too many variables to give pat, absolute, declarative answers. People and situations are different, so all one can do is prepare the best one can, then adapt when things change. It’s been said that no battle plan survives the first shot, and the same is true for survival plans.

“Even small evacuation will strip the land.”
Who’s doing the evacuating, how many are there, what land? It really depends on the answers to those questions. Sure, people will leave signs of their passage, but a few people aren’t going to “strip the land.” Settling for a period of time can certainly change the land.

“I pretty much agree with CWL but wanted to amplify. Others have posted real warnings
to this Romantic Survival Homestead. Read and re-read the posts.”
I’m not sure what romantic survival homestead you’re talking about. We’re not talking about Little House on the Prairie here, we’re talking about a forced survival situation. This would not be a pleasant experience. We’re talking about people who are torn from their nice, comfortable homes — for whatever reason — and have to evacuate and survive with pretty much only what they can carry. It might make an exciting movie, but in real life there would be nothing romantic about it: that situation sucks.

“With regard to the evacuated population:
Evacuees will accidently or intentionally start forest/brush fires.
Young evacuees will become criminal scavengers very quickly and
they will steal from everyone. They do this now when they are not supervised.
Likewise, older evacuees will become criminals when they are faced with
starvation.”
Yes, all that is a given. Anyone who is in a situation where they or their family is starving will probably resort to criminal behavior if it becomes necessary. History and any number of studies have shown that.

“You cannot haul enough canned goods, they are too heavy.
You cannot haul enough tools, guns, ammo, etc. ; because they
are even more heavy. Farm/construction hand tools are very heavy.”
All true. you’re going to be on foot with only what you can carry. What you’re trying to do is survive long enough for things to get better, and you should be able to do that with only what you can carry and improvise. If you can’t, you’re in deep, deep trouble. You need to be self reliant to make it in that situation, at least initially. Later you might meet other folks and form cooperatives.

“A dozen people can overpopulate an wide area for hunter/gather and primitive/garden.
Remember, the land is un-improved: no irrigation ditches, dams, fences, fruit trees.
Even in remote areas it only takes one person to fish-out an area.
And he can scare-off deer while he is fishing.”
Well, that’s a pretty broad statement. How big of an area? What kind of an area? Think about it: some areas will support quite a few people, others won’t. Much of that also depends on how knowledgeable those people are.

“Unless you are nuked, why not lay-up 30 days (better 3-months+) of food and water purification gear plus defensive capabilities and just hunker-down where you are at?”
Sorry, CWL, this one just won’t wash. There may be those who are in circumstances where they could do that, but there are many others for whom it isn’t even an option. There are places, and circumstances, where the only option might be to get out of Dodge immediately. If you live in a nice place out in the country, you might be better off waiting it out. If, however, you happen to live in the middle of a large city, it might mean that staying means dying. If there is a cataclysmic event that destroys the infrastructure of whatever big city you might live in, you’ll do well to get out just as quickly as you can. You can’t wait for the government to come save you, because they’re not coming (if there’s any government left). Better to get away while you can: you can always come back later.