Pocket Saw VS Chopper

[baldtaco-II]

I had a 'chop out' with these three only a few days ago on the log pictured.....the saw won. It cost 3 pounds thats about 4.8 dollars. Cheaper than my NMFBM...

Exactly. And with a 12" bow saw in my pack for the big stuff little gets in the way.

I don't buy into the saw breaking thing either. A spare saw blade taped to it is pretty much unnoticeable. And if I really want to go bananas I can wind in a 12" hacksaw blade too. Still the weight penalty is trivial.

Ax still works best for me in winter on really saturated wood that needs some digging down but that's about it.

 

[tholiver]

Used the 6 inch Fiskars sliding saw a lot this summer clearing/limbing trees for my parents.
Love that saw! And it only weighs about 3 ounces.
For our Canadian members Home-hardware has the ten inch Fiskars sliding saw on sale this week (regular $19.99) now $15 plus you get a $3 dollar back coupon.

Naturally i purchased a ten incher from them 2 weeks before the sale, d'oh!

 

[dawsonbob]

It seems to be an immutable law of nature that whatever one purchases goes on sale two weeks later.

If, however, you wait for the item to go on sale it never will, until you get tired of waiting and break down and buy it.

 

[Munky88]

Camera died before I got anything of the actual shelter. But you can see bushman standing off int he distance over the fallen tree were we built it.

And yeah, probibly not a great idea to build a shelter near on animal trail. :foot:

 

[GrinderMcgee]

Read this thread earlier and had to get out in the rain today. I roamed around a bit clearing the way with the Mistress till I found some downed wood for some saw vs. chopper comparison. Here's my take.

The Mistress kills machete mode, and limbs up to 1 1/2" to 2" fall in a swat or two. Much more efficient than the saw for limbing and brush clearing. Get up to 4-5" dead stuff and the 6" saw blade definately makes things easier, especially on standing deadwood.

Get up over 6" and its back to the chopper. This 8-9" log takes approx 40+ chops for me. I don't have as accurate a swing with the Busse as I do my Trail Master yet, but the chips flying were bigger than my thumb. Mabye a co-op with the blade opening up a channel and the saw finishing the cut would be even more efficient for longer sessions, but I was having too much fun today to do that.

Bottom line, these two are an essential pair, they compliment each other very well. If I had to choose one, the saw wouldn't be well rounded enough for me. An axe may chop more efficiently, but requires more accuracy and clearing is just too exhausting. A blade is what I need in the outdoors. The bigger the better. Shelter, firewood, bushwhacking digging and food prep if need be all in one.

Thanks to the OP for the topic. Always looking for a reason to CHOP!!

 

[Fonly]

Today Munky88 and I met up and started a debris shelter, somewhere undisclosed on the North Shore.

After a few back and forth river crossings D :thumbup we sloshed our way to a good spot and started out building the shelter sides, using an already downed tree as the ridgepole. While gathering the pieces for the walls, it became clear very quickly that the saw was kicking butt (timewise & energy expenditure) in harvesting tree limb pieces. I would not want to have to chop or cut shelter materials with a knife, even a chopper if i was cold and tired.

Took about an hour to get the shelter walls roughed in. Some other time we will return and start piling more limbs and debris onto it.

Debris shelters are great, but here on the Wet Coast the tarp shelter kicks butt, for speed of setting up. 3 - 5 minutes VS 1 - 3 hours for a debris shelter.

EDIT: by Pocket Saw I mean a Sandvik folding saw.....not the pocket chainsaw one

Can't agree enough, for what its worth, my Fiskars has got some people of some sticky situations with SAR, out last training I had two casualties in-between two wood piles, the fiskars cut them out safely, I would not have wanted a hatchet that close to them.

The saws are nice becuase they ARE safer to use, especially at night, and it does take less energy.

 

[raybadge]

Axes have their disadvantages. They're heavy, they're hard to use - many say axcraft is a lost art, they're inefficient in that there is a lot of wasted wood, and they're dangerous - there are no minor injuries with an ax. This is why bowsaws replaced them.

That being said, when you get the hang of it, you can move a lot more wood with an ax, with a lot less effort than you can with a saw. You have to make your cuts at certain spots and you don't swing one like a baseball bat. The length of the handle and the weight of the head supply all the power. All you're supposed to be using your muscles for is to aim it.

I think in the end if you take to an ax it'll work well for you. If it doesn't grab you, you're always going to like and get better results with a saw.

 

[mollyhatchet]

We carry a 10 inch ARS non-folding saw and a fixed blade in one of our pack. We use pruning saws all the time and they work better and quicker for us than mini hatchets. If we think we will need an ax we will take one, usually not worth the extra weight.

 

[kgd]

A larger knife is useful more for its versatility than for its ability to compete directly with a saw. Likewise, an axe has much greater versatility in usage patterns than a saw. A saw is one of those specialized equipment pieces that is great at what it does. Comparing an axe or mid-sized knife to a saw and restricting your comparison to cutting medium sized wood that the saw is optimized for is kind of like comparing a GI-cup against an MSR water filter for processing water.

I do agree that a smaller knife and saw will pair well with one another. I won't go so far as to say I'd forgo an axe or a mid-sized knife under all circumstances. Like anything, it depends on the circumstances. Some wood is best processed in one way and better in another. Saws are most efficient on downed wood, or limbs that are hanging horizontal. They tend to bind more easily vertical standing wood. Also Ankar brings up a great comment about saws and their ability to break. Sure, maybe you can carry a spare blade. How many people actually carry a spare blade? I've certainly bent my share of folding saws to know it can happen easily enough.

 

[baldtaco-II]

“How many people actually carry a spare blade? I've certainly bent my share of folding saws to know it can happen easily enough.”

I've wondered that too. I've considered getting round to buying a Silky on and off for ages. Then I get to wondering about carrying replacement blades for them and all that. I carry replacement blades for the bow saw and they seem to intrude little as they are so thin and light, but I'm not sure that would be the same with a folding saw. Then there's the fact I actually find it more convenient to carry two replacement blades than one. If I tape two together facing opposite ways neither can bite anything.

Although those big folding Silkys are very appealing my current combo of bow saw, golok and small knife covers such a range with aplomb I'm still not anticipating switching again save for the very infrequent need for the power that only an ax can give me.

 

[Darteres]

I really want to get one of those folding bow saws. I love my choppers, but I don't do near enough chopping to justify carrying them on a long hike. They are more used for yard-work and Jeep camping.

 

[Pritch]

A larger knife is useful more for its versatility than for its ability to compete directly with a saw. Likewise, an axe has much greater versatility in usage patterns than a saw. A saw is one of those specialized equipment pieces that is great at what it does. Comparing an axe or mid-sized knife to a saw and restricting your comparison to cutting medium sized wood that the saw is optimized for is kind of like comparing a GI-cup against an MSR water filter for processing water.

Well said, kgd.

-- FLIX

 

[MustardMan]

I rarely use larger knives as all-out choppers. That is to say, I rarely grab a giant knife and a big ole log, and chop that log in half.

I do use them for digging, splitting, limbing, brush clearing, bushwhacking, and so on. Thus, in longer knives, I prefer a slightly more neutral balance instead of the blade heavy pure choppers. Between my Scrap Yard Dogfather (pure chopper) and my Swamp Rat M9LE, I prefer the M9LE, which has a lighter balance and excels more at those machete-like tasks, while still being robust enough to dig and pry and baton. I will be doing a more outright comparison of these different design ideas with a pair of Busse 8"ers very soon - a FSH (heavy beastly chopper) and a lighter, better balanced NMSFNO. I'm hoping the SAR-8 will be released in a CG coated version so I can add that to the comparison, as it has the lightest balance of the three.

If I absolutely had to chop a big log, I know my big knives could do that, but frankly I rarely have to do such a thing, and if I'm planning to take on those sorts of tasks, I will carry a folding saw or pocket chainsaw in addition to the knife.



I also never carry an axe in the woods. For the weight there are more versatile and safer tools for my uses.

 

[hoopster]

As far as spare folding saw blades go, I don't worry about that much. I use a folder on almost a daily basis at work and have never broken a blade. I've bent quite a few but they always bend back. Now having a backup knife is a different story because there's always the possibility of breaking or losing a knife.

 

[dawsonbob]

As far as bending or breaking the blade on a folding saw, it's more likely on some types than on others. My suggestion is to avoid saws that cut on the push stroke because they're more likely to bend or break; you're putting more stress on the blade. Saws that cut on the pull stroke, like the Silky, seem to be far more difficult to bend or break. Some people may find using a pull stroke saw awkward at first, but you get used to it very quickly.

 

[Mr.Blade]

I was in an area where I wasn´t suppose to be...
Suddenly you will be very aware of that chopping tools make a lot of noise, while the effecient folding saw took down smaller dead trees fast and silent. But I broke the tip of the sawblade, though I could still use it. So it has advantages and disadvantages...
A spare blade is a good idea.

 

[ieraseu]

I think that a folding saw + a medium size fixed blade knife + SAK or multi-tool is an ideal combination that will handle anything you ask of them in basically any terrain on earth with regards to backpacking, hiking or survival use. All of them together probably weigh less then just a full size felling axe or large khukri.

 

[tholiver]

It seems to be an immutable law of nature that whatever one purchases goes on sale two weeks later.

If, however, you wait for the item to go on sale it never will, until you get tired of waiting and break down and buy it.

Very true!

 

[scrumpy jack]

A larger knife is useful more for its versatility than for its ability to compete directly with a saw. Likewise, an axe has much greater versatility in usage patterns than a saw. A saw is one of those specialized equipment pieces that is great at what it does. Comparing an axe or mid-sized knife to a saw and restricting your comparison to cutting medium sized wood that the saw is optimized for is kind of like comparing a GI-cup against an MSR water filter for processing water.

At that time, on that log, in that position, with those tools present, the saw was simply more efficient. IMHO i would choose the mistress over both these tools, for versatility.
I use the saw for trap making, ( new project) clean accurate cuts at the right angles.

The last time out i was making rabbit traps and forgot my saw and was trimming down a lenght of hazel for the trap leaning it on a fence post about 1" diameter wood and brought my mistress straight down across the 2nd joint on my index finger....almost cut it off. tired and just lost focus, i will always carry the saw. regards jack

 

[Ankar Sheng]

I'd say choppers are a lot more dangerous than axes too. Much longer cutting edge thats much closer to your body, almost as heavy as a small axe but with half as much control (only 1 hand), and the way their swung. Axes being much longer and heavier at the head lets you focus solely on aim while gravity and momentum do the work, with choppers you actually have to swing them hard to get anywhere near the power of an axe, and thats when things get out of control.

I've had more close calls just playing around in the yard with a chopper than I have in all my life using axes. Every glancing blow with the chopper is a potential trip to the ER, a glancing blow with an axe usually just ends in a trip to the sharpening stone.