It is a versatile tool you only get out of it what you put into. they are great for a multiude of things they have a place in my rigs. Are they the best dry weather tool out there no way but using them for half the things you can makes them worth every ounce they weigh imho.
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Poncho functionality
- Thread starter Shotgun
- Start date
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......
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I hate (HATE!) hiking in the rain, so when it rains I usually put on my poncho and find a place to hang out until the rain stops. I use the time to try to make a fire in the damp, or something else to keep myself busy. Anything is better than sweating inside of a plastic blanket while it gets caught on stuff.
That said...I love my ponchos. They keep me dry enough for my purposes, and I can use it to make a fast, easy shelter.
That said...I love my ponchos. They keep me dry enough for my purposes, and I can use it to make a fast, easy shelter.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 1,516
Another pro of the poncho is the reality of the majority of dayhikes. Often I go out doing under 5 miles with a small daypack:
Does any think I am alone in this? Like most people I don't always head out with a large pack. I don't always hike on rainy days. It is so easy to toss a poncho into the daypack with some other kit items. The poncho is in the white stuff sack. The pack is a UM21 patrol pack.
My second Golite poncho well folded up inside a Kifaru E&E.
Sometimes the weather can turn and no one was the wiser. Other days it stays clear a bell just like the news said. If fully expecting rain I do have a few UL rain jackets and pants to choose from. If kinda expecting rain maybe I will pack a poncho plus UL rain pants or prepare for the worse and take the full set.The same goes for a shelter. If it is raining or expected to rain I would clearly take a larger tarp. I use a 8x10 the most but enjoy a 10x12 even more if packed. But there are times when not using my hammock I bring the bivy bag. The poncho is along for ER raingear so will toss it up in the front just incase. I did it this time when there wasn't a cloud in the sky however woke up to ice cold sleet and rain that in no way was predicted near as I knew.
Had no problem cooking but wished for the rain pants and jacket when breaking down camp.
I am not sure people get that aspect of the poncho. I would have preferred my heated Kifaru tipi and full rain gear. Sure a larger tarp would be better. But in the real world we don't always pack the prefect kit for every last possible contingency. If so our daypacks would be 40 lbs. A poncho is a multi tool. Not great at any one thing but usable for many things. Sometimes a multi use approach goes terribly wrong like some of those crazy shovels or POS cheap survival knives. Other times like the poncho it could have merit. I think discussions of how a larger tarp is better or the superiority of dedicated raingear is missing the point IMHO.
Does any think I am alone in this? Like most people I don't always head out with a large pack. I don't always hike on rainy days. It is so easy to toss a poncho into the daypack with some other kit items. The poncho is in the white stuff sack. The pack is a UM21 patrol pack.
My second Golite poncho well folded up inside a Kifaru E&E.
Sometimes the weather can turn and no one was the wiser. Other days it stays clear a bell just like the news said. If fully expecting rain I do have a few UL rain jackets and pants to choose from. If kinda expecting rain maybe I will pack a poncho plus UL rain pants or prepare for the worse and take the full set.The same goes for a shelter. If it is raining or expected to rain I would clearly take a larger tarp. I use a 8x10 the most but enjoy a 10x12 even more if packed. But there are times when not using my hammock I bring the bivy bag. The poncho is along for ER raingear so will toss it up in the front just incase. I did it this time when there wasn't a cloud in the sky however woke up to ice cold sleet and rain that in no way was predicted near as I knew.
Had no problem cooking but wished for the rain pants and jacket when breaking down camp.
I am not sure people get that aspect of the poncho. I would have preferred my heated Kifaru tipi and full rain gear. Sure a larger tarp would be better. But in the real world we don't always pack the prefect kit for every last possible contingency. If so our daypacks would be 40 lbs. A poncho is a multi tool. Not great at any one thing but usable for many things. Sometimes a multi use approach goes terribly wrong like some of those crazy shovels or POS cheap survival knives. Other times like the poncho it could have merit. I think discussions of how a larger tarp is better or the superiority of dedicated raingear is missing the point IMHO.
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- Jan 24, 2013
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Woods Walker
As a lifelong camper, hiker, impromptu shelter-seeking (not state-of-the-art by any means) outdoor enjoyer ... may I say your sense of the 'poncho' is pure gold. We do with what we know and with what we have - and with what we can make out of what we have. We are quite ingenious as this forum shows! Necessity meets availability. OK - we could use birch bark to shed the rain and it is good to know this. But, whew, thank goodness for drier, quicker, lighter.
As a lifelong camper, hiker, impromptu shelter-seeking (not state-of-the-art by any means) outdoor enjoyer ... may I say your sense of the 'poncho' is pure gold. We do with what we know and with what we have - and with what we can make out of what we have. We are quite ingenious as this forum shows! Necessity meets availability. OK - we could use birch bark to shed the rain and it is good to know this. But, whew, thank goodness for drier, quicker, lighter.
When I started getting into outdoor activities, the poncho was the only rain gear I could afford. Like that have been said before, it does the job well enough but it is not the ideal solution, specially when dealing with technical terrain and on descent. But I feel that it works well enough and is usually light enough to merit carrying it regardless. And these days I think its the best rain gear for commuting too! When it rains, I just pop in my head and I'm done, when it stops raining, I just pull it off and in a second Im stuffing it in a pocket in my pack.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
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- 20,207
And therein lies the problem. No solution is without cons.
"Waterproof breathable"? Only if not covered with water (and not too cold).
I've used ponchos quite a bit, my favorite being the military surplus with the grommets and snaps. Of course they aren't suitable for every situation, but they're great as a make-do compromise and certainly better than nothing.
Pros:
. Covers me and the pack.
. air flow beneath material - cooler in hot weather than a rain suit.
. in heavy rain or hail, stop, pull poncho over head and take a break. Even eat lunch while ducked beneath.
. snaps around sleeping bag for ground cloth, and protection from light rain when camping without a tent.
. I found that when it's cold and damp, frost forms on the inside of the poncho instead of on sleeping bag. Wake up, shake off frost, and resume hiking with dry gear.
. emergency shelter. Two or more people with compatible ponchos can snap them together.
. easier to quickly put on than a rain suit.
Cons:
. No good for bushwhacking.
. poor substitute for a tent in heavy rain, buggy environments, or cold conditions.
Pros:
. Covers me and the pack.
. air flow beneath material - cooler in hot weather than a rain suit.
. in heavy rain or hail, stop, pull poncho over head and take a break. Even eat lunch while ducked beneath.
. snaps around sleeping bag for ground cloth, and protection from light rain when camping without a tent.
. I found that when it's cold and damp, frost forms on the inside of the poncho instead of on sleeping bag. Wake up, shake off frost, and resume hiking with dry gear.
. emergency shelter. Two or more people with compatible ponchos can snap them together.
. easier to quickly put on than a rain suit.
Cons:
. No good for bushwhacking.
. poor substitute for a tent in heavy rain, buggy environments, or cold conditions.
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- 7,702
Interesting thread, great discussion :thumbup:.
I take a poncho-tarp on day hikes, and for backpacking I often am debating between the Silponcho (261g seam-sealed) or the DriDucks rain suit (159g for Jacket, 114g for pants - trail-use only, forget it for bushwacking or scrambling). Now, I will admit that most of my Silponcho use has been either as a sun-shade or wind break for chillin or lunch breaks, and on a few occasions as rain gear for brief spells without a ton of wind (forest). On a bone dry warm day, I will just put it up as a windbreak if overnighting...it's not the end of the world if the wind deviates because it's warm out anyway. The added plus for backpacking is that it gives me a porch or windbreak option for cooking out of the wind or a small common area if it's an easy drizzle and we just want to sit outside. Also can serve as a privacy screen.
My silponcho a couple of years ago, still in great shape today.
80*F days here, 0% rain prediction and balmy nights with mild wind predicted from direction tarp is pitched against. Could have easily done without the tarp and just cowboy camped it completely.
As sunshade. I do wish it was more opaque, but oh well, it does work well enough if that's all I have on me and not some more opaque dedicated tarp.
Would I want to use it as my dedicated rain shelter on a backpacking trip where I'd be expecting wind and rain? Most definitely not, much too small for my tastes, I want at least an 8'x10' for that. But, for day hikes, in conjunction with a waterproof AMK Bivy on a polycryo groundsheet or 5x7 BCUSA tarp, in moderate temps... I'd use it if it's all I had and was injured or caught out unexpectedly. Or if my main backpacking shelter failed catastrophically for some reason, the old "it's better than nothing" really holds true; one layer between my sleeping bag and the rain is better than no layer. I'd use the remains of my main shelter to extend coverage. For emergency survival use like on a dayhike, I would basically find the best natural wind-sheltered area I could find with good drainage, peg my poncho-tarp corners to the ground and A-frame it. Then I'd put my groundsheet under the area covered by the tarp, making sure it won't collect spindrift off the sides/ends. If I have insulation (my pack frame is a torso size Zlite CCF pad), plop that down under the tarp, then the AMK bivy goes on top with good coverage for my head and torso, and sacrificing my leg/feet end since the bivy should be waterproof anyway. I always carry a grocery bag for packing out trash on trails if I find any, so that would go over my feet for added foot-end protection. If I had time and mobility, I'd gather brush to door up the ends of the tarp to stop spindrift from blowing in (I'd have to stick my bagged legs through the lower end). Ideally, do like BTII said, use a tree to string up the head end nice and tight, then apply brush to the sides to fill in the gaps. Oh, and as for the hood, I just twist and tie a simple overhand knot, secure with hood cinch cord if needed.
This has always been the theory anyway, and I'm ashamed to admit I've never ACTUALLY tested it. So, although it won't be raining this weekend, I'll set it up and take some pics when I'm out hiking, maybe spit some water over it
, just as proof of principle. Now, if it was already raining, and it was getting dark and cold, it would be crappy situation setting up the shelter while getting wet. My only protection while doing that would be my windshirt, which can only handle so much before being flooded. The question of what do you do when you need to convert your rain gear into a shelter is a valid one, and I don't have a great answer other than be quick and efficient, unless you can pull off a trick like lmalterna mentioned.
Now, for use as dedicated rain gear when on the move day hiking or backpacking, no, I wouldn't prefer it. One is for wind, as mentioned, another is for not being able to see foot and leg placement when hiking wet and therefore slippery terrain. Plus, in a downpour, my lower legs just get soaked, then it wicks up and it all just ends up cold. Same goes for the arms, but that can be mitigated with my kit somewhat by using a windshirt under the poncho. And sure, I could get some silnylon chaps for lower leg protection, but it's one more thing... and I might as well just get a rain suit at that point. So, makes me a sail and catches on brush, can't see foot placement, and lack of full limb coverage = meh rain gear for actual hiking. I will say that I believe the poncho breathes better than rain jackets and pants, with the caveat that I haven't tried fancy stuff like eVent and the like yet. The couple of times I've used DriDucks, I can't recall being immediately disappointed by them, so it's a good sign for their breathability. But, venting is indeed easy with a Poncho. Most of the times I've hiked in the rain deliberately, I've used a rain jacket (Marmot precip, like the zip vents) and wished for rain pants. But for short rain bursts and general "just in case" day hiking or backpacking rain gear in clear weather, I call it good for the dual function as small tarp (more for wind and sun functions than rain shelter). It's compact for its weight as mentioned, can serve at least two non-critical purposes, and it's easier for me to think "sure grab the poncho-tarp" on ANY day hike, than to decide to grab both rain gear and another large-enough-for-shelter and therefore heavier tarp on a clear or ambiguous day for "just in case". I mean, if I had an 8x10 cuben tarp, it'd be a no brainer, take the cuben tarp and Driducks and call it good. Much the same like I'm leaning towards with backpacking these days: light main shelter and rain suit instead of poncho-tarp because needing the secondary tarp function isn't all that probable. And for day hiking, if I have the time, I'll just opt to wait out the burst under a tree in my poncho then move on when it lightens up. And if I really needed to move to get back to my vehicle, well, it may not be ideal to hike in, but it can be done. I'm willing to let my limbs get wet if I knew I'd be back to the car soon. The limb wetting thing is still something I'm trying to sort through, it seems some folks don't mind their lower legs getting wet. I just don't think it'd be very fun in sleet conditions.
Now, to address specifically the pack cover function of the poncho-tarp, I will say I am inclined to give it the nod there. For day hikes, I don't care; my pack can get wet because I use a liner anyway so everything is protected. But for backpacking, when it's possible I'll be out for several days in wet weather or when high humidity precludes speedy drying out of gear, I tend to believe that a pack can pick up a good amount of water weight in the mesh and fabrics. Something like my dyneema and silnylon ULA pack, I'm not too worried, but I do still have padded shoulder straps and a hipbelt to consider. Some of these other really cushy packs with padded backpanels and stuff, I often wonder just how much water weight is added to the pack after a good soaking. I mean, sure, you could use a pack cover, but again, one more thing to carry and weight to add, and it doesn't really protect your pack picking up water where it's most prone: back padding and straps/hipbelt. I've used pack covers with rain jackets, and the water just runs between your pack and your back. So, if I were to drop the poncho for backpacking, I wouldn't use a pack cover anyway, because I don't feel like it's worth it if one uses a pack liner or dry bags to protect the gear IN the pack. Is this protection against water weight enough to justify the negatives of a poncho? I'm not sure, still working that one out for myself. But I feel it's worth consideration. For day hikes, I just let my pack get soaked because the added weight wouldn't matter given my already low day hike loadout. Washes off the dirt somewhat anyway
I guess in sum, I would have to say:
Day Hikes in clear or light rainy weather: Yes
Backpacking: Leaning towards No, not sure yet
Dedicated Rain Gear: No
Dedicated shelter when rain is likely: No
Shotgun, I'd think for you, in the rainy PNW, some solid rain suit would be the way to go given the amount of time you're likely to be in the wet. You're more likely to HAVE to move in the rain, and for that I think a rain suit wins.
ETA: One last note, for cost, weight, and durability, I think a silnylon poncho is pretty good. One thing holding me back from getting a good rain jacket and pants is the cost for the more durable options that also have better breathing performance. My Silponcho is for sure more durable than my DriDucks rain suit, and weighs nearly the same. I would actually chose to walk through brush with the silponcho rather than the DriDucks... I'd love to pick up some eVent stuff or whatever new stuff performs well these days, but man, the cost takes some saving up for...
And for day hikes in definitely clear weather, or small chance of rain, I often find myself more inclined to to take a cheap disposable plastic poncho and an actual tarp. Now if only I could find a relatively durable 8x10 or thereabouts tarp that's just as light as cuben, but transmits less light, for an affordable price...then I'd be set. It'd work as rain shelter, wind block, and sunshade while being light and lasting for a good amount of time with common sense care.
I take a poncho-tarp on day hikes, and for backpacking I often am debating between the Silponcho (261g seam-sealed) or the DriDucks rain suit (159g for Jacket, 114g for pants - trail-use only, forget it for bushwacking or scrambling). Now, I will admit that most of my Silponcho use has been either as a sun-shade or wind break for chillin or lunch breaks, and on a few occasions as rain gear for brief spells without a ton of wind (forest). On a bone dry warm day, I will just put it up as a windbreak if overnighting...it's not the end of the world if the wind deviates because it's warm out anyway. The added plus for backpacking is that it gives me a porch or windbreak option for cooking out of the wind or a small common area if it's an easy drizzle and we just want to sit outside. Also can serve as a privacy screen.
My silponcho a couple of years ago, still in great shape today.
80*F days here, 0% rain prediction and balmy nights with mild wind predicted from direction tarp is pitched against. Could have easily done without the tarp and just cowboy camped it completely.
As sunshade. I do wish it was more opaque, but oh well, it does work well enough if that's all I have on me and not some more opaque dedicated tarp.
Would I want to use it as my dedicated rain shelter on a backpacking trip where I'd be expecting wind and rain? Most definitely not, much too small for my tastes, I want at least an 8'x10' for that. But, for day hikes, in conjunction with a waterproof AMK Bivy on a polycryo groundsheet or 5x7 BCUSA tarp, in moderate temps... I'd use it if it's all I had and was injured or caught out unexpectedly. Or if my main backpacking shelter failed catastrophically for some reason, the old "it's better than nothing" really holds true; one layer between my sleeping bag and the rain is better than no layer. I'd use the remains of my main shelter to extend coverage. For emergency survival use like on a dayhike, I would basically find the best natural wind-sheltered area I could find with good drainage, peg my poncho-tarp corners to the ground and A-frame it. Then I'd put my groundsheet under the area covered by the tarp, making sure it won't collect spindrift off the sides/ends. If I have insulation (my pack frame is a torso size Zlite CCF pad), plop that down under the tarp, then the AMK bivy goes on top with good coverage for my head and torso, and sacrificing my leg/feet end since the bivy should be waterproof anyway. I always carry a grocery bag for packing out trash on trails if I find any, so that would go over my feet for added foot-end protection. If I had time and mobility, I'd gather brush to door up the ends of the tarp to stop spindrift from blowing in (I'd have to stick my bagged legs through the lower end). Ideally, do like BTII said, use a tree to string up the head end nice and tight, then apply brush to the sides to fill in the gaps. Oh, and as for the hood, I just twist and tie a simple overhand knot, secure with hood cinch cord if needed.
This has always been the theory anyway, and I'm ashamed to admit I've never ACTUALLY tested it. So, although it won't be raining this weekend, I'll set it up and take some pics when I'm out hiking, maybe spit some water over it
, just as proof of principle. Now, if it was already raining, and it was getting dark and cold, it would be crappy situation setting up the shelter while getting wet. My only protection while doing that would be my windshirt, which can only handle so much before being flooded. The question of what do you do when you need to convert your rain gear into a shelter is a valid one, and I don't have a great answer other than be quick and efficient, unless you can pull off a trick like lmalterna mentioned.Now, for use as dedicated rain gear when on the move day hiking or backpacking, no, I wouldn't prefer it. One is for wind, as mentioned, another is for not being able to see foot and leg placement when hiking wet and therefore slippery terrain. Plus, in a downpour, my lower legs just get soaked, then it wicks up and it all just ends up cold. Same goes for the arms, but that can be mitigated with my kit somewhat by using a windshirt under the poncho. And sure, I could get some silnylon chaps for lower leg protection, but it's one more thing... and I might as well just get a rain suit at that point. So, makes me a sail and catches on brush, can't see foot placement, and lack of full limb coverage = meh rain gear for actual hiking. I will say that I believe the poncho breathes better than rain jackets and pants, with the caveat that I haven't tried fancy stuff like eVent and the like yet. The couple of times I've used DriDucks, I can't recall being immediately disappointed by them, so it's a good sign for their breathability. But, venting is indeed easy with a Poncho. Most of the times I've hiked in the rain deliberately, I've used a rain jacket (Marmot precip, like the zip vents) and wished for rain pants. But for short rain bursts and general "just in case" day hiking or backpacking rain gear in clear weather, I call it good for the dual function as small tarp (more for wind and sun functions than rain shelter). It's compact for its weight as mentioned, can serve at least two non-critical purposes, and it's easier for me to think "sure grab the poncho-tarp" on ANY day hike, than to decide to grab both rain gear and another large-enough-for-shelter and therefore heavier tarp on a clear or ambiguous day for "just in case". I mean, if I had an 8x10 cuben tarp, it'd be a no brainer, take the cuben tarp and Driducks and call it good. Much the same like I'm leaning towards with backpacking these days: light main shelter and rain suit instead of poncho-tarp because needing the secondary tarp function isn't all that probable. And for day hiking, if I have the time, I'll just opt to wait out the burst under a tree in my poncho then move on when it lightens up. And if I really needed to move to get back to my vehicle, well, it may not be ideal to hike in, but it can be done. I'm willing to let my limbs get wet if I knew I'd be back to the car soon. The limb wetting thing is still something I'm trying to sort through, it seems some folks don't mind their lower legs getting wet. I just don't think it'd be very fun in sleet conditions.
Now, to address specifically the pack cover function of the poncho-tarp, I will say I am inclined to give it the nod there. For day hikes, I don't care; my pack can get wet because I use a liner anyway so everything is protected. But for backpacking, when it's possible I'll be out for several days in wet weather or when high humidity precludes speedy drying out of gear, I tend to believe that a pack can pick up a good amount of water weight in the mesh and fabrics. Something like my dyneema and silnylon ULA pack, I'm not too worried, but I do still have padded shoulder straps and a hipbelt to consider. Some of these other really cushy packs with padded backpanels and stuff, I often wonder just how much water weight is added to the pack after a good soaking. I mean, sure, you could use a pack cover, but again, one more thing to carry and weight to add, and it doesn't really protect your pack picking up water where it's most prone: back padding and straps/hipbelt. I've used pack covers with rain jackets, and the water just runs between your pack and your back. So, if I were to drop the poncho for backpacking, I wouldn't use a pack cover anyway, because I don't feel like it's worth it if one uses a pack liner or dry bags to protect the gear IN the pack. Is this protection against water weight enough to justify the negatives of a poncho? I'm not sure, still working that one out for myself. But I feel it's worth consideration. For day hikes, I just let my pack get soaked because the added weight wouldn't matter given my already low day hike loadout. Washes off the dirt somewhat anyway
I guess in sum, I would have to say:
Day Hikes in clear or light rainy weather: Yes
Backpacking: Leaning towards No, not sure yet
Dedicated Rain Gear: No
Dedicated shelter when rain is likely: No
Shotgun, I'd think for you, in the rainy PNW, some solid rain suit would be the way to go given the amount of time you're likely to be in the wet. You're more likely to HAVE to move in the rain, and for that I think a rain suit wins.
ETA: One last note, for cost, weight, and durability, I think a silnylon poncho is pretty good. One thing holding me back from getting a good rain jacket and pants is the cost for the more durable options that also have better breathing performance. My Silponcho is for sure more durable than my DriDucks rain suit, and weighs nearly the same. I would actually chose to walk through brush with the silponcho rather than the DriDucks... I'd love to pick up some eVent stuff or whatever new stuff performs well these days, but man, the cost takes some saving up for...
And for day hikes in definitely clear weather, or small chance of rain, I often find myself more inclined to to take a cheap disposable plastic poncho and an actual tarp. Now if only I could find a relatively durable 8x10 or thereabouts tarp that's just as light as cuben, but transmits less light, for an affordable price...then I'd be set. It'd work as rain shelter, wind block, and sunshade while being light and lasting for a good amount of time with common sense care.
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- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 7,702
[...]So, although it won't be raining this weekend, I'll set it up and take some pics when I'm out hiking, maybe spit some water over it
I almost forgot to make a video of my silponcho set up as emergency shelter yesterday while hiking. I made use of a trail camp I came across on my way out to pop it up real quick. My camera battery was dying, so I didn't have enough to juice to do multiple takes and I lost the two additional videos I did record with added notes, so I'll just summarize what I clarified in the other lost vids.
All I need:
ID Silponcho
AMK Bivy
Cordage (I carry at least 6x8' triptease)
Knife for pointing and beveling stakes and trimming poles if needed
To make it easier or stack odds in your favor, also have:
Trekking poles (especially useful if you're somewhere not wooded)
Stakes
Groundsheet
Insulated Pad
Here's the video of the tarp shelter. I lost the last two videos I had planned to tack on to the end of this one, which were clarification of the times I had my fingers over the mic
or stuff I forgot to say in the first video. That stuff is summarized below.[video=youtube;kYiNEv99fR0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYiNEv99fR0[/video]
1) Finding a suitable spot is the longest part of this process. Ideally I want somewhere with good natural wind blocks, not under widow-makers, and with good drainage so I don't end up in a pool in the middle of a rainy night. The actual set-up of the shelter is, of course, quick.
2) As I said above, and I hope the video illustrated this, you can set up the 8'x5' poncho in this simple low-pitch open-end A-frame and get good coverage if all you needed was protection from simple falling rain. But if the wind was driving rain and I couldn't close up the head end with a tree-trunk and/or debris, then I'd shift myself further down the length inside such that my feet would be closer to the end or even extending out a little. I'd probably be using my pack or natural debris under my legs for insulation, and since I'd be in the Bivy, my lower third would be protected from from wind and rain even though it may be out of the tarp entirely.
3) I'd use as much natural insulation as I could scrounge to supplement the insulation I'd be wearing, if I were doing this for real. I'd block the head end or block up the sides if it was strung up tight to a tree, to block spindrift. I'd layer soft stuff under the groundsheet and pad to give myself even more insulation. I used to carry a big compactor bag that I could have stuffed with leaves and stuff for an over quilt, but don't carry one any more...maybe I should add it back in since my pack is light anyway...
4) The poncho-tarp will collect water in the hood area, since the hood prevents a clean, taut ridgeline. This can be mitigated by a) just pushing water off every once in a while, but you might flood your space, b) if there's a non-widow-maker branch overhead, you can tie the hood up to keep the A-frame and prevent pooling, and c) You could form another A-frame or quad-pod over the middle to tie the hood to, or you could try rigging lines from the hood out to both trekking pole tips (not to apply counter-productive tension, but to keep the rideline in the middle erect so water falls off the sides). Obviously not ideal, but that's one compromise of carrying a poncho-tarp vs. a rain suit and a tarp. When I can afford a cuben tarp, I'll probably switch over to a rain-suit + tarp system.
That's all I can remember mentioning in the other two short vids.
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- Nov 6, 2011
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- 392
......
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For me, if i'm even remotely anticipating rain/snow, I simply bring along appropriate rain/snow gear. I don't bring along a shelter unless I'm intentionally going to need one, and that for me, is about the only use for a poncho (at which point I'd be packing a tent or a large tarp).
I have used a hammock in conjunction with a poncho and it worked OK keeping the rain off me and kept me off the mud, but I didn't have the freedom to pack what I preferred (a properly designed tent). Once it's "Bug Season" non-enclosed options just don't cut the mustard.
So with that said, you can count me as not being in the "Poncho Fan" camp.
I think a poncho design can be useful if I find myself in a bad situation when I've not planned appropriately and I have enough material on hand to fabricate one.
Not sure if this is germane to the topic, but I'm considering buying a larger "emergency blanket" for the few bucks they cost and small space it would take up for my EDC, but that's a different application than a poncho.
I have used a hammock in conjunction with a poncho and it worked OK keeping the rain off me and kept me off the mud, but I didn't have the freedom to pack what I preferred (a properly designed tent). Once it's "Bug Season" non-enclosed options just don't cut the mustard.
So with that said, you can count me as not being in the "Poncho Fan" camp.
I think a poncho design can be useful if I find myself in a bad situation when I've not planned appropriately and I have enough material on hand to fabricate one.
Not sure if this is germane to the topic, but I'm considering buying a larger "emergency blanket" for the few bucks they cost and small space it would take up for my EDC, but that's a different application than a poncho.
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I have carried my same GI surplus poncho since I was a kid. I think I have actually worn it as a poncho while backpacking in the rain maybe twice. I have to say that it is a cumbersome beast to wear while walking. It did the job I suppose, I think my pack and I stayed somewhat dry. But I mainly use it as a shelter or a ground sheet which it works much better as. I guess it has just become a part of my gear by default, not because it is particularly good. It's been everywhere with me though, and will continue to do so. (Unless I finally pony up for a nice, lightweight tarp)
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The foam padding already functions as my pack frame and stiffens it up nicely while providing protection from any hard corners from poking into my back, which I prefer, even with light day pack loads/weights. Having the foam is a nice plus for emergencies, conduction through the ground is a real heat sink, as you know. If I needed more insulation and nothing natural was at hand, forget lying down, I'd just stick my pack on the ground, put the pad on it, and just sit. A polycryo groundsheet and Ti stakes weigh very little and make quick sit-down breaks or sun-shade or wind-break construction fast and no fuss. I don't normally erect anything when by myself though, and unless it's really muddy, I just sit on the ground. I guess the point is it's all more versatile for me, vs. just having a dedicated durable bivy which I would never use (if everything went right) as anything other than something to sit on.
It may, but I think you'd have to have it up against a natural feature or something to keep out the weather. I feel like rather than stretch it for use as a roof and floor, you might as well just use it as a roof to keep out the weather and trust to ground absorbancy or sit on your pack.
Yeah, that's always the thing, this is more for the lost or over-ambitious day hike and don't want to risk getting injured moving at night scenario. The injury situation, well, that's why I am a firm believer in bringing insulating layers which will keep you alive if not toasty in overnight conditions where you'll be hiking, even if only day hiking. Guys are always talking about making fires and chopping wood and building this and that natural shelters, but if I were injured I want to stack the odds in my favor: Put on insulation, get in bivy, and hunker down. If able-bodied enough, throw up the tarp I'm already carrying as double-duty rain gear. If not, then I wear it or wrap it around myself (like your article) and do the best I can to stay dry given my injury. It all works on a spectrum of response:
Able to self-evacuate safely? --> Do it. This includes having a broken arm or something that doesn't prohibit your from thinking, seeing, and moving over terrain.
Physically unable to self-evacuate, but able to call or signal for immediate help? --> Do it.
Have a companion who is able to help evacuate you or get help without compromising her own or your safety? --> Do it.
Alone, lost or not able to self-evacuate at the time, unable to call/signal for help, but able to use all your limbs? --> Put on insulating clothing, gather natural insulation, set it all up under/in a low-pitched poncho-tarp, get in bivy, hunker down until morning when you can re-evaluate your situation and work on self-evacuation in the day light or staying put for SAR (you left a note, right?). A bothy bag is a good alternative. If you can supplement or better your shelter by improvising from nature, then do it (fire, natural insulation).
Not able to use a leg, but can hobble around well enough with stick/pole aid? --> As long as I won't cause further damage to myself, set up the above shelter. Even better if I have a bothy bag. It may be painful, but you have a better chance of staving off hypothermia if you're dry.
Not able to use both legs, but can still use hands and arms? --> Put on insulating clothing, and then basically get your lower body into what is a garbage bag of some sort on steroids (open bivy or enclosed bothy). Hope that conduction of heat away from your body to the ground isn't enough to push you into hypothermia.
Not able to use legs or hands? --> Do what you can to get insulation and weather protection around you, signal any way you can and hope it's received.
I didn't know much about bothy bags until recently, but I am definitely interested in them. You're 100% right: they look much easier to use, especially if injured. I mean, the concept is essentially the same, have some lightweight ready-to-go shelter with you already. Right now I have a bivy, with the added tarp roof if I'm able to set it up. I focused on the tarp side here because this is a thread about the utility of ponchos. The bothy would be better emergency shelter, especially if injured, but it doesn't seem as versatile as carrying a tarp (in this case, poncho-tarp) for more mundane, non-emergency, uses (which would happen more frequently given my typical activities).
Plan for what's probable. For me, the most likely bad scenario is falling while scrambling somewhere off-trail or not heavily trafficked and I don't have cell service. My current kit still handles that as well I would reasonably expect. And it would handle the less likely bad scenario (lost somehow but not injured) well enough. I mean sure, I could carry a satellite phone, full 0* sleeping bag with waterproof fill, and a full size heavy duty foam pad along with a bivy/bothy...but we each have to decide on the compromises we make between preparedness and practicality. The only possible improvement I could see would be maybe taking a rain suit and a bothy instead of the poncho-tarp and bivy. Day-hiking the local park with the GF, don't need "survival" gear. Day-hiking alone or with the GF, somewhere unfamiliar where it can get cold and wet, I'd definitely want more safety margin, even on a "day hike".
Now, I'm off to look into Bothy Bags more...
Sorry for the thread drift.
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Codger_64
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The one time I purposely used a milsurp poncho for an overnght shelter, I made a tipi out of it with standing river cane tied with a piece of cord. It was misting rain, near dark and I had to get off the river. There was no convenient gravel bar or other cleared space to erect my tent. I tied the frame while wearing the poncho, flipped it up over the frame and crawled under with my gear bag. It was tight and I had to sleep sitting up, but the candle lantern provided plenty of heat and light. And I stayed dry while making the shelter and through the night with occasional heavy showers. I was sitting on my blue foam pad to stay off the wet ground.
I have made a larger, more comfortable shelter with two of them snapped together, but honestly, a tube tent does just as well for less bulk and weight but no dual purpose.
I have made a larger, more comfortable shelter with two of them snapped together, but honestly, a tube tent does just as well for less bulk and weight but no dual purpose.
Codger_64
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http://brooks-range.com/UltraLite-Alpini-Shelter-200.html
An interesting one, a bit less bag-like.
An interesting one, a bit less bag-like.
Cougar Allen
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You can get a little bit wet while converting your poncho from garment to shelter, lying on the ground without a ground cloth, etc., and still survive. If you're caught in a cold downpour without even a poncho, you could die of hypothermia. Don't think in terms of, oh, if a drop of water touches me I'll melt. Rain gear isn't to keep you dry; it's to keep you warm. Unless you're the wicked witch of the west -- if you are you'll need better protection than a poncho.
[video=youtube;j7GJcKuVGm8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8[/video]
[video=youtube;j7GJcKuVGm8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8[/video]
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OK, I'll admit I'm beating the scenario-specific survival planning horse to death. It's all in good fun.
It is all in good fun
On phone now so pardon brevity/errors.3. If you are like Ms. Grover and had no other clothing and couldn't scrounge any natural insulation, I'd be inclined to agree with wrapping to trap a layer of air next to your body vs. pitching the poncho.
4. Absolutely. Don't lie down in that case, just sit on your pack or whatever you have with you. Minimize your body contact with the ground by minimizing your footprint. It will suck, but you will probably conserve more warmth. Even if the ground were dry, if I had no insulation under me, forget lying down.
I'm no survival expert, but I'd venture that it isn't so much whether or not your bottom (entire back and legs or just butt) is wet since evaporation and convective cooling shouldn't be a large factor; your body would be flush against the ground. I doubt the conduction of heat to the ground through a dry intermediate vs wet is appreciably different. Not to mention there is the consideration of the hydrostatic head and vapor permeability of your nylon poncho - some pressure against a wet surface may be all that is needed to pass moisture through, then you're just as wet as if you had sat right on the ground. Not to say you shouldn't, I'm just not certain it'd make a difference. Perhaps it does if it wicks moisture into the rest of your clothing that is exposed to the air.
But yeah, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.
ETA:
1) Polycryo groundsheet - effective, light, compact, cheap
2) Codger - :thumbup: Excellent. That's one way to get it done. I'm keeping that one in mind for sure.
3) Agree with Cougar. I know most folks don't do this, but as mentioned above, I use a windshirt. If it was raining and I wanted to pitch the poncho, the windshirt would keep me dry while I pitch.
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