POOR customer service

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Standard78 said:
Maybe that building fire is actually a blessing in disguise.
Yeah it sucks because it could've made a great shop, but the money that was tied up into it can now be used for refunds, machinery for their current shop or payment for more knives to made by Millett.

$150K or more could really speed up production and get them out from under this dark cloud of failed shipping dates and negativity.

This is what I would do with that insurance money, but I could be foolish for thinking that considering I'm not in the knife biz.
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That place was of historic significance to the town, I gather. Then again, Guy was able to secure it for 100K less than the asking price, according to the news story. Assuming insurance on the building, I am not sure how that will go for covering damage to other properties as well that the fire leapt to? I don't know. We here think, "Great! Survive! can receive the insurance payout and peak out of the hole somewhat for a breath of air!" but it is probably not so simple :( Again, I am more worried about something like this sinking Guy's most productive effort ever in Survive! I want to see him pull through. After all, the knives really are awesome.
 
ncrockclimb said:
I have never advocated sinking the company. Please point out where I did and I will apologize.

As for "asset rich and cash poor", that has been discussed. It is semantics. The FACT is that S!K is not issuing refunds because they don't have the $s to do so.

If a moderator tells me I am trolling, then I'll stop. Until then, I will continue to stick to the facts about S!K.
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The comment about advocating sinking the company was not directed at you, nor would I request an apology from anyone here. I know your history as a S!K fan and supporter and fully get where you are coming from and the frustration there. But I responded to you specifically just now because you responded to me. I guess we could respond to eachother via PM instead, but where is the fun in that :p

The fact is that S!K is issuing refunds indeed the OP got his, no? And the few refund-threads before this one? I seem to recall them being closed because the OP got his refund. Clearly they do have the cash to issue refunds, they are simply not getting to them as quickly as everyone would hope. Right? So that assertion was a false one, or am I mistaken? There are probably now some here reading who cancelled just recently and are now waiting for their refunds - do you think that they will not get them? If you think they will not, THAT is explicitly negative interpretation and not truth, and asserting it as truth = trolling.

Last, Ellie is the mod in this subforum, so unless she suddenly appears or another mod from outside the subforum steps in there will be no comment from them - that is my interpretation ;)

ETA: post #64, the OP got his refund. In the previous refund thread, the OP has only 1 post on BF and it was to open that thread. Thread before that, done. Also the one before that. There really haven't been many of these threads, it just sucks that there have been any at all, i.e. any delays in refunds at all, or in knife-production for that matter!
 
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chiral.grolim said:
That place was of historic significance to the town, I gather. Then again, Guy was able to secure it for 100K less than the asking price, according to the news story. Assuming insurance on the building, I am not sure how that will go for covering damage to other properties as well that the fire leapt to? I don't know. We here think, "Great! Survive! can receive the insurance payout and peak out of the hole somewhat for a breath of air!" but it is probably not so simple :( Again, I am more worried about something like this sinking Guy's most productive effort ever in Survive! I want to see him pull through. After all, the knives really are awesome.
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The whole situation is a damn shame for sure because I want them to succeed and prosper in a location that works out well.

Now that this has all happened and is irreversible, that big chunk of change that really wasn't being used can turn things around in a positive way for them.

More production and happier clients will grow the business to were they can afford to expand in the future.
 
Simple- Survive! Knives (Guy + Ellie) want people to support their company by continuing to buy knives which will have an extended delivery time.

Is it unreasonable to ask that someone who Represents Survive! Knives steps up and present a good reason why they should? Historically speaking things look worse than ever. If Guy believes he can pull this off and succeed please share those thoughts with your customer base and fans. Bare minimum would be to confirm Lance is who he claims to be- It's the internet right no one's ever claimed to be something they're not.


A community sets standards of behavior and looks out for each other whether you've got skin in the game or not. By voicing a concern I'm trying to help inexperienced members avoid common pitfalls- Paying up front and using F+F.

It's like telling someone they've got an ugly baby. They know, it just pisses them off that you remind them of it.
 
lancelot said:
Forgive me for brief reply, but posting from my phone.

Just pulling numbers from the air, assume you had $400k in preorders. If you spent $250k on COGS, and processed $100k in refunds, leaving $50k in cash, and you then got $40k in refund requests, would you immediately process them? I wouldn't. The company would have transformed preorder money into hard assets, but wouldn't be broke or out of money.
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Lets not forget that the Starter Program was the "cash cow" to get the business fully up/running (or at least well on it way), I believe there has been enough Pre-Orders/Pre-Sales, etc.(many of which have been taking place well before the Starter campaign) etc.. It comes down to getting some communication from the top, that's what we are all entitled to. I would have never imagined it would have taken almost 18mos to get a couple starter orders and looking more and more like 3 years for the 3.5 model and a minimum of 2 years on a couple others if the production schedule does not shift around again. Yes I'm very please with the knives I receive but I also look at the fact I'm 49 now and not getting any younger (wishful thinking though, lol).
 
chiral.grolim said:
The comment about advocating sinking the company was not directed at you, nor would I request an apology from anyone here. I know your history as a S!K fan and supporter and fully get where you are coming from and the frustration there. But I responded to you specifically just now because you responded to me. I guess we could respond to eachother via PM instead, but where is the fun in that :p

The fact is that S!K is issuing refunds indeed the OP got his, no? And the few refund-threads before this one? I seem to recall them being closed because the OP got his refund. Clearly they do have the cash to issue refunds, they are simply not getting to them as quickly as everyone would hope. Right? So that assertion was a false one, or am I mistaken? There are probably now some here reading who cancelled just recently and are now waiting for their refunds - do you think that they will not get them? If you think they will not, THAT is explicitly negative interpretation and not truth, and asserting it as truth = trolling.

Last, Ellie is the mod in this subforum, so unless she suddenly appears or another mod from outside the subforum steps in there will be no comment from them - that is my interpretation ;)

ETA: post #64, the OP got his refund. In the previous refund thread, the OP has only 1 post on BF and it was to open that thread. Thread before that, done. Also the one before that. There really haven't been many of these threads, it just sucks that there have been any at all, i.e. any delays in refunds at all, or in knife-production for that matter!
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Op only got a refund through paypal. Being forced to give a refund is not the same as willingly giving a refund. The difference should not be overlooked.
 
craytab said:
Op only got a refund through paypal. Being forced to give a refund is not the same as willingly giving a refund. The difference should not be overlooked.
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Very true...

There's an enormous difference...

Because now PayPal will seek recompensation from S! or Guy or Ellie or whoever the PayPal account holder is...

Same thing happened with my PayPal claim against Steven Ketchen <sketchenscales>. Ketchen never even checked in to dispute my escalation and PayPal decided in my favor. Now they're gonna extract their pound of flesh from Ketchen's posterior.

As for S!, I got my GSO10 preorder money back, but that was last year and took a month of getting the runaround.

That hollow thumping sound you're hearing now may be the bucket hitting hardpan at the bottom of the S! well...

Not a good sign when PayPal has to make you whole on a knifemaker's behalf.
 
Petey, just to clarify:

Your case was covered by PP's buyers guarantee policy. In this case it seems that S! issued refund to the OP through their PP account after the OP initiated a dispute with PP (at least that's the way I read it). I do not wish to rehash this whole debacle again, but just to highlight that your claim procedure turned out to be a more severe case and luckily for you, PP covered you while will try to mitigate its losses from Steven.
 
Casinostocks said:
Petey, just to clarify:

Your case was covered by PP's buyers guarantee policy. In this case it seems that S! issued refund to the OP through their PP account after the OP initiated a dispute with PP (at least that's the way I read it). I do not wish to rehash this whole debacle again, but just to highlight that your claim procedure turned out to be a more severe case and luckily for you, PP covered you while will try to mitigate its losses from Steven.
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Gotcha!
 
No Response from Survive! Knives?

On what basis are people still supporting this company?
Reputation: They've never been able to deliver a knife on time.
Customer Service: They've never been responsive to their customers.

Lances Statements: He's trying to prevent a run on the bank to protect his investment being he's not getting paid back as originally agreed upon. Read that again survive! knives had a year to pay Lance back and they didn't so he extended the loan duration.
lancelot:
  1. I previously loaned the company a significant sum of money in the 4th quarter of last year as the refund request threads were starting to come in--knowing full well that my funds would likely be used to pay for the posters' refunds. I made the loan because I believed in the company, loved the delta 3v protocol after using another maker's knives, and wanted to see the company succeed.
  2. I haven’t been paid back and have recently extended my loan, and I’ve therefore got significant “skin in the game.” As far as I know, I am the only secured creditor of Survive.
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It's like people are continuing to support a myth that never really existed- They're Whistling Past the Graveyard
 
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braillediver said:
No Response from Survive! Knives?

On what basis are people still supporting this company?
Reputation: They've never been able to deliver a knife on time.
Customer Service: They've never been responsive to their customers.

Lances Statements: He's trying to prevent a run on the bank to protect his investment being he's not getting paid back as originally agreed upon. Read that again survive! knives had a year to pay Lance back and they didn't so he extended the loan duration.

It's like people are continuing to support a myth that never really existed- They're Whistling Past the Graveyard
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Hopes, dreams and wishes
 
braillediver said:
Reputation: They've never been able to deliver a knife on time.
Customer Service: They've never been responsive to their customers.
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The above statements may reflect what's going on right now, but the use of "never" is inaccurate. I've had several knives come to me in past years that were within the estimated delivery time frame. This is also true for many early weekly sales. The preorders of 5.1s were at least much closer to the anticipated timeline.
Also, I've had very good communication by phone and email in past months and years, but I have not been in touch with them recently.
I'm not arguing about the current situation, but to make blanket statements like this is just as bad as someone saying everything is perfectly fine.
 
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You're overlooking the elephant in the room and commenting on the drapes.

When your business model requires New Buyers to finance previous buyers purchases- nit picking over semantics is silly. It's not like survive! was on the ball and recently started to fall behind.


You're only "Hope" of getting the knives you've already paid for is for more customers to step forward and pay in full for vaporware with indeterminate. delivery times. Sorry but you can't encourage new members to pay for your misfortune.

This needs repeating:
lancelot:
  1. I previously loaned the company a significant sum of money in the 4th quarter of last year as the refund request threads were starting to come in--knowing full well that my funds would likely be used to pay for the posters' refunds. I made the loan because I believed in the company, loved the delta 3v protocol after using another maker's knives, and wanted to see the company succeed.
  2. I haven’t been paid back and have recently extended my loan, and I’ve therefore got significant “skin in the game.” As far as I know, I am the only secured creditor of Survive.
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Silver Needle said:
The above statements may reflect what's going on right now, but the use of "never" is inaccurate. I've had several knives come to me in past years that were within the estimated delivery time frame. This is also true for many early weekly sales. The preorders of 5.1s were at least much closer to the anticipated timeline.
Also, I've had very good communication by phone and email in past months and years, but I have not been in touch with them recently.
I'm not arguing about the current situation, but to make blanket statements like this is just as bad as someone saying everything is perfectly fine.
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The first knife I purchased from S!K in March 2015 took 3x the estimated delivery time. While they never guaranteed delivery times during the starter program in 2015, they stated that they thought they could finish everything in 12 months. It now looks like some models will take more than 3 years. They may have occasionally shipped a few knives within their estimated delivery time, but I think it is safe to say that the VAST MAJORITY of their orders were VERY late.
 
braillediver said:
You're overlooking the elephant in the room and commenting on the drapes.

When your business model requires New Buyers to finance previous buyers purchases- nit picking over semantics is silly. It's not like survive! was on the ball and recently started to fall behind.


You're only "Hope" of getting the knives you've already paid for is for more customers to step forward and pay in full for vaporware with indeterminate. delivery times. Sorry but you can't encourage new members to pay for your misfortune.

This needs repeating:
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When did I ask anyone to buy a knife? I'm aware of the elephant in the room and not disputing that. The current situation is bad enough, there's no need to make it seem like the company started out this way.

ncrockclimb said:
The first knife I purchased from S!K in March 2015 took 3x the estimated delivery time. While they never guaranteed delivery times during the starter program in 2015, they stated that they thought they could finish everything in 12 months. It now looks like some models will take more than 3 years. They may have occasionally shipped a few knives within their estimated delivery time, but I think it is safe to say that the VAST MAJORITY of their orders were VERY late.
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I don't think either of us have actual percentages of what's been delivered on time and what's been late, I'll concede that if we had numbers they wouldn't be in my favor, but if people who want the company to succeed are called out on being overly optimistic to a fault, I think the standard should be set on both sides of the argument.
 
At this point the attacks are so consistent and regular, I'm starting to get suspicious of a few posters. Some of you guys have made your point but continue to post over and over and in multiple threads.

This behavior is abnormal for someone just trying to point out a terrible business model.

I'm starting to think there is some other motivation for the assaults. Something besides a customers hurt feelings.

If you've made it a point to expose the terrible company and its awful practice then let it lie. It has to be draining for some of you to be so negative for so long.

We get it, survive has long wait times and never delivers on promises. After 15 extra posts about it, some guys just seem like there's more to it.

Maybe it's a new way of thinking that "this company did me wrong so now I'm going bring out its demise". Just seems really suspicious that a few guys are so persistent. It's bad karma, boys.
 
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