Positive News Concerning Cold Steel And 4034 Steel

There is a lot of speculation about what a 3V Trailmaster or Recon Scout would cost. I would love to have either. They are classic designs that many of us came of age drooling over. But, I hope CS does their homework and is reasonable.

As an example, a Survive Knives GSO 10 sells for $349. Yea, yea, timelines, promises, etc... Forget about the issues with the company. This is about knife A vs. knife B, price and performance. As much as I like the Trailmaster, I wouldn't pay $350 for one when the GSO 10 in Delta 3V, with your choice of color of Micarta or G10 and the best OEM Kydex sheath available is the same price. Also, the GSO is 100% American made, for those who consider that a factor, and many do.

This is just one example. I'm sure their are tons of others and I didn't pick the GSO to advertise for SK. It's a brand I pulled from the top of my head. Also, this comparison is performance based and SK knives, whatever you think about the company, offer very high performance in the 3V steel we're discussing. If collecting, fondling, or just wanting a particular knife from your youth is a factor, then this comparison goes out the window and that's fine.

Personally, if CS nails the heat treat (which I expect, though it will likely not be at Delta performance), designs the blade for performance and strength (like a good grind, radius the corners so it won't break at the handle junction, etc), bolts a well designed and premium handle on it, and puts it in a nice leather sheath (I don't expect Kydex from CS), I think $300 should be a maximum price. Special materials like a stag handle will change this of course.

I wish CS the best and this endeavor could end well. If 4034 is as good as they're saying and the price is right, a budget Recon Scout will be in my pile of cool knives for sure.
 
goldie said:
Seems like on the CS forums, Andrew Demko chimed in, and let everyone in as to whats going on.In addition to the 4034 trailmasters and Recon scouts, they are also going to make them and the kukris in CPM 3V as well, which is in my opinion extremely great news. im imagining 4034 will be more of their budget versions, which is perfectly fine and acceptable, and the 3v knives will be their higher end models.Wish it was mentioned in the begining,but this move is such a game changer.Id like to see an AD10 or Recon 1 in 3v as well.
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This is damage control 100 percent.
 
Yeah i also think the 3v thing has been in the works for a while, maybe they wanted to be sure it was going to happen before they said anything.
 
With some of the manufacturers it goes a little deeper than just controlling advertised pricing. Some manufacturers will only sell to brick and mortar stores and require minimum pricing. If they find too many instances of a dealer selling below MAP they will either pull their business from them or they will stop selling to the distributer that they buy from, in which case the distributer stops selling to that dealer completely. Call it what you want to, but it is not within Milton Friedman's definition of "free market economy". Victorinox is also on the list of map and only brick and mortar sellers.
 
vjb.knife said:
With some of the manufacturers it goes a little deeper than just controlling advertised pricing. Some manufacturers will only sell to brick and mortar stores and require minimum pricing. If they find too many instances of a dealer selling below MAP they will either pull their business from them or they will stop selling to the distributer that they buy from, in which case the distributer stops selling to that dealer completely. Call it what you want to, but it is not within Milton Friedman's definition of "free market economy". Victorinox is also on the list of map and only brick and mortar sellers.
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Then what you are talking about is not MAP. Minimum Advertised Pricing. It's a numbers/marketing thing. It's just like MSRP. Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It's a feel-good way to give a customer what the feel is a deal and not lose your shirt. MSRP is $99.99. My cost is $45. I sell it for $70 and they "save" nearly 30.

Actually making BnM shops adjust their pricing and not their advertised pricing is price fixing. I would be curious to know what brands these are so that I can avoid them.
 
Did some quick searching and found SRK's in 3V retailing for around $200 with rubber handle and plastic sheath. I'm pretty sure Recon Scout and Trailmaster will be $300 or higher, kukri...$400-500?
 
We can conjecture about future prices, or we can wait until the actual product comes out.

Myself, I'm going to wait until the product hits shelves and has a price tag.

MAP never bothered me. With any purchase I make, I determine whether the price of the product justifies spending my money on it.

And I'll do just that with whatever new offerings Cold Steel unveils.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
...Finally, MAP does not stop a supplier from SELLING below that price. It stop them from ADVERTISING below it. It's actually fairly toothless when you get down to it, yet people make it sound like it reads like a Communist Manifesto best read while enjoying terrible vodka and excellent cigars.
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Tell that to my local B&M retailer.

As a mater of fact, tell it to all the retailers in about a 50 mile radius of my home. They all have the same attitude, MAP forces me to sell at this price.

As far as I am concerned, MAP pricing is a polite way to fix prices.
 
Somewhat off topic,but I'm new and I need help please. How can I tell if my Recon 1 XL is Xhp? It's nowhere on the blade or box. I ordered from a guy that says he got it new from Cold Steel around Christmas last year. I can post pictures of needed. Definitely looking forward to more 3v steel from them as well. Thanks!
 
^ Ihave a recon 1 says cts-xhp on the blade.Not sure why yours doesnt.
 
goldie said:
^ Ihave a recon 1 says cts-xhp on the blade.Not sure why yours doesnt.
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Thanks for the reply. Here are a few pictures of the box and blade. The QR code gives me some hope that it's XHP because maybe it's newer? When did they quit making Aus8? James. Edit: Can't figure out how to upload pictures. The box has a QR code above the UPC code. Not sure how long they have done that.
 
FreeByrd said:
Thanks for the reply. Here are a few pictures of the box and blade. The QR code gives me some hope that it's XHP because maybe it's newer? When did they quit making Aus8? James. Edit: Can't figure out how to upload pictures. The box has a QR code above the UPC code. Not sure how long they have done that.
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view
 
FreeByrd said:
Thanks for the reply. Here are a few pictures of the box and blade. The QR code gives me some hope that it's XHP because maybe it's newer? When did they quit making Aus8? James. Edit: Can't figure out how to upload pictures. The box has a QR code above the UPC code. Not sure how long they have done that.
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Wow... another thread based on what Cold Steel MIGHT do. What they shouldn't do... and a slow building seethe of resentment against Cold Steel.

Actually, Steely_Gunz Steely_Gunz is absolutely correct. Some here are confused about RPM vs. MAP. SG covered MAP, so here is a great, easy to digest, valid look as defined by law at what we used to thnk of as "price fixing". (Although in truth, it wasn't).

http://www.michbar.org/file/barjournal/article/documents/pdf4article3183.pdf

A few notes from the Federal Trade Commission about "Retail Price Maintenance" and the legal right of a company to do so:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/com...ws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

Note that "price fixing" and "retail price maintenance" are NOT the same. In this discussion, the correct term for the concerns here is "retail price maintenance" as described by law.

Whether or not a retailer cuts their profit, culls their inventory, or doesn't need a high margin, they can sell under MAP pricing. It is their call, even if they fall out of favor with their distributor. Under RPM, you cannot. I don't know of any examples in the knife world, but since I am in construction, I can show you two in the tool world. One, Festool. High end tools, great brand, too expensive for my taste. They are well made, never on sale, and are only promoted or discounted if it is authorized by Festool, USA. So, the price you pay on Amazon is the price you pay at your local Woodcraft or other authorized dealer, UNLESS there is an authorized promotion or sale under the auspices of Festool, USA. The same condition exists with FEIN oscillating tools. I believe it is the same for Metabo, Lamillo and a couple of others.

So, while the suspicion grows against nasty old Cold Steel about what they might do, remember if they price themselves out of the market, well... they priced themselves out of the market! New knife makers are a dime for a baker's dozen these days. While it is more fun to rail out against perceived unAmerican activities, "red commies" (thanks, Archie!) Cold Steel will go where they will. I would bet that some of the offended here don't even own any Cold Steel products, and are as so many are in these days of social media perception, just offended because they are.

I am a fan of Cold Steel for my working knives. But I am a consumer on a tight budget, too. I will lead by example. If Cold Steel screws up and starts making bad products, I will not buy anymore. (Pretty simple, really...) If they continue on as have for 30 years, I will be looking forward to their new releases and options.

And for those still confused about MAP, why in the world wouldn't a retailer sell at MAP? Why? Give me a reason! If I have a knife that sells for MSRP of $200, and MAP is $150, why would I sell it for $100 if I could still make a profit? As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, someone's local retailers all sell at MAP. If no one steps out of line on that price, then they all make more money. Sure, I could still make money at $100, but at $150, even better. Then when a customer asks, I could shrug my shoulders and say, "well... I don't have any control over the pricing. It will be this price anywhere you look... it's set by the manufacturer". If the consumer thinks they are getting the same price where they are as they would if they shop, then they buy in the spot. No shopping. Much higher sales price for the seller!

I buy a lot of hand tools and consumables for my company online. They are forced to play the "MAP" game. But, say I need a new roto-hammer drill or a new circular saw. The big jungle site does this, two tool retailers I frequent do this, and others as well. They have some of their products advertised at the correct MAP price, but say "place item in the cart to see YOUR price" and it is discounted when you look.

MAP pricing, NOT RPM.

Robert
 
FreeByrd said:
Thanks for the reply. Here are a few pictures of the box and blade. The QR code gives me some hope that it's XHP because maybe it's newer? When did they quit making Aus8? James. Edit: Can't figure out how to upload pictures. The box has a QR code above the UPC code. Not sure how long they have done that.
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view
 
Use imgbb.com download and use full linked code for pics might be easier.
 
Unfortunately it seems like its aus-8a not cts-xhp; if you google that model number they all come up as aus8a steel .
 
That's what I thought. I'll return it tomorrow. Maybe he somehow got some old stock. Thanks for the help! I'll be around more and more. Love Cold Steel.
 
DMG said:
a company choosing to use a MAP pricing structure doesn’t go against the free market. Free Market refers to free from government control and only that.
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Hmm.
I don t think the term "free market" is necessarily connected to government control. I think it is an economic term meaning businesses are allowed to buy and sell items as they wish. But in the case of the knife makers, with MAP enforced pricing, they take the control of the market from their retailers. To the detriment of the consumers. Hopefully the consumers will avoid items with MAP controlled pricing.
As a small business man (very small!), I prefer to sell my services at the price I choose.
 
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