Power hammers

jdm61 said:
On a related note, I heard a rumor that John the Massey guy in the UK and/or James Johnson, the dude who looks like Timothy Olyphant, may have had similar discussions with Anyang like what Tom had with Say Mak. The reputation of those hammers appear to have improved in the last few years.
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James seems to be doing a real good job with Anyang. If I was in the market for a new air hammer, I'd look real hard at one of these.
 
Does anyone have any input on the possibility of mechanically driving a hammer and using a VFD as control? With a TIG torch pedal or some other foot pedal pot to control speed? I like how pneumatic hammers work, but I don't want to invest in a bigger compressor or build a hammer sized so that my current compressor could run it. It works great for everything else I need it for.
 
Don, is there any work you'd really miss the press for if all you had was a 1-200# power hammer?
I've been wondering how well it'd work to make up spring swages for the power hammer to use in place of squaring dies of laddering dies
 
Don Hanson III said:
Wow, that never popped up in any search I did. I will forward this to Fisk.
I might have been searching the old name Saya, or whatever it was?
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Don, these guys may be pretty recent. IIRC, I did a search like like 6 months ago and there they were. Prior to that, there was somebody maybe in Washington or Oregon who was supposed to have taken over the franchise from Tom, but I never heard if that worked out.
 
kuraki said:
Does anyone have any input on the possibility of mechanically driving a hammer and using a VFD as control? With a TIG torch pedal or some other foot pedal pot to control speed? I like how pneumatic hammers work, but I don't want to invest in a bigger compressor or build a hammer sized so that my current compressor could run it. It works great for everything else I need it for.
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The anyang hammer is self contained, it has a compressor built in
 
Centaur Forge used to sell the smaller Kuhn hammers. I saw one of those at the SOFA shop in Ohio and a guy in know in Germany had one and he really iked it. The bad news is that they were crazy expensive. IIRC, Centaur was selling the 75 pounder for like $14k when the 110 pound Say Maks and Sahinlers were still going for around $10K. Those Germans are sure proud of their products. ;)
 
Don Hanson III said:
Geoff, about the only thing I'd miss, is pressing pattern into damascus billets. That's about all I use the press for anymore.
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Thanks, I imagine I could get by without that for a while at least.
The new shop list is already very long, leaving a press off for the first while would ease it at least somewhat
 
One place to look for hammers are the tailgate sale sections of iForge iron and other blacksmithing websites. One guy had a 50 pound Iron Kiss for sale back in January for $4k. You have to check frequently and move quickly from what I see. They have a couple of LG's right now and a 400 lb Chambersburg. The bad news is that typically, none of these beasts are cheap. The sellers are well apprised as to the market value of hammers.
 
DevinT said:
Hot dang, 300# Beaudry. That's awesome.
I had a 500# LG for 15 years and made 10,000 bars of damascus on it, loved it. I cracked the main frame, then sold it to a guy who needed it to complete his line up of all the hammers LG made. It went to a good home but I wish I still had it.
Hoss
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I've seen vids of Bob Kramer working on his 500 LG... Jeez what a beast. Must take some doing, to crack the frame on one! I hope the one you sold is not just out to pasture now, perhaps someone down the line will fix it.
A 1000 lb. C-burg, now that's an incredible machine. I guess you're one of the very few in the blade world that could truly justify getting such a thing and installing it... the rest of us just dream of it. The 330 Beche would be all the air hammer I'd ever need.
 
jdm61 said:
One place to look for hammers are the tailgate sale sections of iForge iron and other blacksmithing websites. One guy had a 50 pound Iron Kiss for sale back in January for $4k. You have to check frequently and move quickly from what I see. They have a couple of LG's right now and a 400 lb Chambersburg. The bad news is that typically, none of these beasts are cheap. The sellers are well apprised as to the market value of hammers.
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There is a place up here in Canada that always has a pile of them. Out in Quebec. They have the occasional small hammer, but most of it is 400#+ steam hammers. The prices aren't rediculous, but are definitely market value. They've got a 1000# Niles bement right now.... That'd be one hell of a hammer, but that'd also take a huge compressor to run
 
kuraki said:
Does anyone have any input on the possibility of mechanically driving a hammer and using a VFD as control? With a TIG torch pedal or some other foot pedal pot to control
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Of course this is possible, I dont think anything is gained adding electronic controls to a high vibrating dirt & oil soaked machine over just running its motor and controlling hammer speed via coneclutch.
But for the folks who like to show off otherwise worthless ability of cracking boiled eggs or clamping on their air/steam hammer, I suppose VFD is appealing.
 
The biggest advantage would be in engineering it. If for a couple hundred dollars I could eliminate all of the clutch components, it would be worth it for both time in designing and fabricating.

What I didn't know, is if there was any disadvantage to that vs mechanical clutch.

Pneumatic - spend around $1,000 on a new compressor and then the cost of the pneumatic valves, solenoids, hose, fittings, then assembly of the system. Upside is almost infinite tuneability, "soft" pneumatic cushioning.

Mechanical clutch- Design and fabricate a somewhat complex system that is adjustable but will wear over time, requiring adjustment over time.

VFD - less design, less fabrication, simple wiring, infinite adjustability, less complex mechanical drive, for $2-300.
 
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I started out with a 25 LG. learned to tune it and forged alot of blades with it, even forged 2" W2. It did, and still does what I need. Then I bought a 250 LG and really smooshed some W2 rounds. Ran across a 100 LG and it is a good all around hammer for everything. A Canadian wanted the 250 worse than i did and offered more money every time he asked so that sits in a barn in Saskatoon smashing beer cans last I knew. My dad owns a machine and fab shop so I had the ways and means to build a hammer but in the end I bought because the romance wasnt there to build a hammer, i wanted to make knives. Plus at that time scrap was so high that it didnt make money sense. Even today going by what Ive learned I would probably buy a Anyang and call it a day. But the 100 and 25 will stay in the shop with me.
 
I understand your VFD point.
Mechanical hammer clutch, aside from performing as a clutch, its also a flywheel.
I think it would need a very husky motor if one were expecting a VFD motor to perform as a clutch drive hammer.

Btw, as you mention not wanting to buy a bigazz compressor...if you dont realise,
there are basically two design of airhammer.
The homebrew contraptions what need a huge highpressure compressor driving an aircylinder. Air from a reciever tank is valved to a cylinder. Pretty simple to envision. Steam hammers are also this basic design. Maybe or not utilising condenser & heat recovery system.

Self contained hammer is basically two bigazz pistons. One piston connected to its motor is constantly in motion. The other piston connected to the hammer die.
The valving system connects all or just a portion of its air per compressor stroke to the hammer piston. Any unused air per stroke is simply dumped.
 
Excellent point on the fly wheel and I did not realize that's how a commercial pneumatic worked. Thank you.
 
Am I right in remembering that there are plans for a self contained air hammer out there somewhere?
Especially with access to a full machine shop, that'd be the sort I'd be inclined to build.
I've considered that approach, but I like old iron enough that I'll probably rebuild some old heap
 
You can build a mechanical with VFD control, TIG pedal. I know of several old mechanical hammers that have been converted to VFD/clutch bypass with good success. You would need to talk to Steve Howell of Ballard Forge about that, he's done up to a 150 Beaudry and I think has a 200 Beaudry in the works with VFD control. He can be found on Facebook...
 
Salem Straub Salem Straub I just found a thread where you were contemplating it because Mecha was doing it, though it seems he was still using his clutch.

I would think with the right settings you could do it clutchless, with maybe an oversized motor to account for loss of power at lower hertz and a mild reduction via pulleys. Say a 5hp 1750 RPM motor to drive a 50-75 pound hammer with a 3:1 reduction between the motor shaft and jack shaft at 30hz max should be about 291 BPM, and should still be able to start quickly enough.

I don't Facebook unfortunately.
 
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