Practical Sharpening's stones are all...

[Baron Mind]

Freaking amazing. I've now used a set of their metallic bonded diamond stones and a set of their resin bonded diamond stones, and they were both really really good.

The resin bonded diamond stones are currently unavailable on their website, but the resin bonded cbn stones are available, and the guy who sent me all these stones says he likes the resin bonded cbn stones even more than the diamond.

If 1x6 (or 1x4) stones are of any interest to you, I cant recommend them enough.

You can check them out at practicalsharpening.com/edge-pro

If you have any questions feel free to ask

 

[David Martin]

I have looked at those and wrote them, wishing they manufactured a 2" X 6" X 1/2" T stone and I'd purchase it. DM

 

[MtnHawk1]

Baron Mind, thanks for the good info, but too small for me. Hopefully they will make these in benchstone sizes at some point.

 

[Baron Mind]

Baron Mind, thanks for the good info, but too small for me. Hopefully they will make these in benchstone sizes at some point.

I know they have made some benchstone prototypes. I'd feel pretty confident in saying they will, as long as the maker doesn't randomly lose interest or something. Like I said the performance is really high, and the prices are competitive. The dollar to euro conversion sucks, as do the shipping fees from overseas, but even so, they don't cost anymore than similar stones from gritomatic.

Speaking of gritomatic, I haven't used any of their bonded diamond/cbn stones, but compared to something like the Venev stones, these are in another league.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

So how do these compare to the Edge Pro Diamond Matrix stones? I cannot afford either unless I get into commercial sharpening, but it's the obvious question.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I find a profound irony in calling stones that expensive "practical". Functional, certainly, but there's a number of reasons why metallic- and resin-bonded CBN and diamond stones aren't the most pragmatic route to go. Conventional diamond plates make far more sense for most work necessitating diamond, and aluminum oxide or silicon carbide are more sensible choices for everything else. Not a knock on their quality whatsoever, just a criticism of their odd marketing choice.

 

[wade7575]

Those Metallic Bond stones are the same stones that Gritomatic sell's they are made by Poltava Industrial Diamond Tool's,just a word of warning I also have the resin bond one that they make as well and they are not as long wearing by any means as the Venev OCB resin bond stones,the Venev OCB Resin bond are in 800 and 1200 FEPA grit and they are releasing very soon like 6 to 8 weeks a 400 grit but that release date could change you never know.

I know those are Poltava stones by the box a friend of mine went to another website and got them because he wanted them right away and there where 2 grit's that were out of stock at Gritomatic and he got the set he wanted from another place and his girlfriend's friends mom is from the Ukraine and read the box for him.

Freaking amazing. I've now used a set of their metallic bonded diamond stones and a set of their resin bonded diamond stones, and they were both really really good.

The resin bonded diamond stones are currently unavailable on their website, but the resin bonded cbn stones are available, and the guy who sent me all these stones says he likes the resin bonded cbn stones even more than the diamond.

If 1x6 (or 1x4) stones are of any interest to you, I cant recommend them enough.

You can check them out at practicalsharpening.com/edge-pro

If you have any questions feel free to ask

 

[Baron Mind]

I find a profound irony in calling stones that expensive "practical". Functional, certainly, but there's a number of reasons why metallic- and resin-bonded CBN and diamond stones aren't the most pragmatic route to go. Conventional diamond plates make far more sense for most work necessitating diamond, and aluminum oxide or silicon carbide are more sensible choices for everything else. Not a knock on their quality whatsoever, just a criticism of their odd marketing choice.

"(of an idea, plan, or method) likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible" Practical doesn't necessarily imply anything about cost, not whatever, idc what they call themselves.

Diamond plates are great but they have their pros and cons. They lose their aggressiveness rather quickly, and then you're forced to play the guessing game as to how far worn down they are, and when they are no longer effective and need to be replaced. You can never refresh the surface back to the out of box performance. You also are restricted in how much pressure you can apply. They also scratch deeper than every other type of stone, making polishing much more difficult. The biggest downfall of diamond plates imo are the limited grits available. Most of them stop around 1200 grit.

As far as AlOx and SiC being more sensible for everything else, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm sure. I've tried using SiC on steels like s110v and k390, and the stones want to burnish more than they cut, fatiguing the steel, causing a loss in edge performance.

 

[Baron Mind]

So how do these compare to the Edge Pro Diamond Matrix stones? I cannot afford either unless I get into commercial sharpening, but it's the obvious question.

The matrix stones I've used are very good stones. The matrix stones are better polishers than the Practical Sharpening stones. The matrix stones use a noticeably softer resin, which is what I think makes them polish so well. It also gives them a sort of rubbery feedback that I don't care for freehanding. I feel like I can get a crisper edge off the harder PS stones. You also get a much thinner layer of abrasive with the matrix stones. The PS stones are like 3x as thick. So both are good, and mixing them isn't a bad option.

 

[wade7575]

B Baron Mind Have you tried the Venev OCB Resin Bond stones to see how they compare to the Matrix stones as far as the scratch pattern goes.
They are a very hard stone but much smoother then there standard resin bond and they do leave a better scratch pattern then the standard Venev stones do.

I have not tried the Matrix stones yet and I was just wondering if they polish any better.

The matrix stones I've used are very good stones. The matrix stones are better polishers than the Practical Sharpening stones. The matrix stones use a noticeably softer resin, which is what I think makes them polish so well. It also gives them a sort of rubbery feedback that I don't care for freehanding. I feel like I can get a crisper edge off the harder PS stones. You also get a much thinner layer of abrasive with the matrix stones. The PS stones are like 3x as thick. So both are good, and mixing them isn't a bad option.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As far as AlOx and SiC being more sensible for everything else, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm sure. I've tried using SiC on steels like s110v and k390, and the stones want to burnish more than they cut, fatiguing the steel, causing a loss in edge performance.

In what grit ranges? I specifically noted that aluminum oxide and silicon carbide were only effective choices for such steels up to roughly ANSI 400/JIS 700. If you go above that you'll get the results you're describing, but not in the range where the abrasives are large enough to scoop out the carbides along with the steel.

 

[David Martin]

"(of an idea, plan, or method) likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible" Practical doesn't necessarily imply anything about cost, not whatever, idc what they call themselves.
Diamond plates are great but they have their pros and cons. They lose their aggressiveness rather quickly, and then you're forced to play the guessing game as to how far worn down they are, and when they are no longer effective and need to be replaced. You can never refresh the surface back to the out of box performance. You also are restricted in how much pressure you can apply. They also scratch deeper than every other type of stone, making polishing much more difficult. The biggest downfall of diamond plates imo are the limited grits available. Most of them stop around 1200 grit.
As far as AlOx and SiC being more sensible for everything else, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm sure. I've tried using SiC on steels like s110v and k390, and the stones want to burnish more than they cut, fatiguing the steel, causing a loss in edge performance.

Baron, I can agree with much of this as it echos my experience with conventional plate grown diamond stones. They are friable and the very thin grit snaps off and wear quickly. Thus, a stone with diamond grit embedded in it's matrix makes good sense. Getting that in a competitive, economical package is the challenge. Why this thinking and offering was not forth coming in America years ago is a mystery to me. I have read
this technology exists in a wheel format. So, another good option. DM

 

[Diemaker]

Why this thinking and offering was not forth coming in America years ago is a mystery to me. I have read
this technology exists in a wheel format. So, another good option. DM

Phenolic bond diamond wheels have been used for a long time, probably over 70 years. I think the problem here is volume, knife sharpening just doesn't buy the volume needed to interest the established manufacturers of these products. Much of the manufacturing of diamond wheels is proprietary information so you're on your own if you want to figure it out. Also what works well at 6000 feet per minute will be really slow at hand sharpening speeds. Matrix stones remove metal, or carbide, much faster at 4000 fpm than using them by hand while leaving a much finer finish.

 

[David Martin]

Ok, that makes good sense. ^ A cutting / grinding wheel for industrial application is more sought after. DM

 

[Diemaker]

Wade, the Edge Pro Matrix pass-around kit is just sitting here. If you want to try out the full set all it will cost is $14.35 to ship it back and no time limit.

 

[sickpuppy1]

Do it Wade!!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Phenolic bond diamond wheels have been used for a long time, probably over 70 years. I think the problem here is volume, knife sharpening just doesn't buy the volume needed to interest the established manufacturers of these products. Much of the manufacturing of diamond wheels is proprietary information so you're on your own if you want to figure it out. Also what works well at 6000 feet per minute will be really slow at hand sharpening speeds. Matrix stones remove metal, or carbide, much faster at 4000 fpm than using them by hand while leaving a much finer finish.

Also the issue of loading vs. an appropriate wear rate. Manual sharpening, when done at appropriate pressure, wears diamond abrasives so slowly that to use the abrasive in a way that uses the grit to its fullest effective cutting potential before shedding requires a very hard bond, which leads to loading issues. A softer bond leads to diamond being shed before it's been "used up" and blunted. The latter will provide the best performance, but will be a more expensive path. Usually bonded diamond abrasives are being used to machine things like ceramics and stone.

 

[K80Shooter]

Phenolic bond diamond wheels have been used for a long time, probably over 70 years. I think the problem here is volume, knife sharpening just doesn't buy the volume needed to interest the established manufacturers of these products. Much of the manufacturing of diamond wheels is proprietary information so you're on your own if you want to figure it out. Also what works well at 6000 feet per minute will be really slow at hand sharpening speeds. Matrix stones remove metal, or carbide, much faster at 4000 fpm than using them by hand while leaving a much finer finish.

Diemaker, I would like to try these out after Wade7575 gets through with them. I am in no hurry whatsoever.

 

[wade7575]

Maybe later on I will try them and I'm not opposed to trying them for any reason but with me I'm extremely busy and I wear a lot of different hat's and I always have what feels like at least 1000 people all trying to pull me in a different direction at the same time,if I got them they could end up sitting for 6 months before I may try them.

For at times it extremely hard not to bark at people and want start hollering and getting really snappy at people for just asking me something nicely and I'm not really that kind of person at heart but at times it get's so bad like it is right now it just sound like someone is going yip yip yip yip yip yip yippadee yip in my ear none stop,you none when someone scream in your ear and your ear ring's at times that's they it is to for me with the yip yip crap even when everyone's mouth is shut it's that bad at times,I got a bald spot on my head and not's from tearing the hair and I even I'm surprised it isn't from tearing out and not falling out on it's own.

Thanks for the offer and I will about trying them later on.

Wade, the Edge Pro Matrix pass-around kit is just sitting here. If you want to try out the full set all it will cost is $14.35 to ship it back and no time limit.

 

[Alberta Ed]

I have used the same DMT 6" bench hones for over two decades without seeing any significant wear or decline in performance. When they get dirty I clean them with BreakFree CLP to restore their effectiveness.