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Practical Sharpening's stones are all...

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Baron Mind, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    I'm not suggesting to you stop using or buying DMT plates by this next statement,I have seen myself to many people complain about the DMT plates wearing out fast plus I had some for my KME and got the Gold Series soon after and never the DMT's much because the Gold Series cut a bit faster.

    That being said I can't say that DMT's crap but I just think they could cut faster and also I'm just leary of them because of to many people claiming that they wear to fast,but I also look at this way if your are happy with them and the result's you are getting with them don't stop until you do have a problem with them.

    I'm the kind of person that won't say a DMT will blast metal off the edge at break neck speed's a Metallic Bond CBN or something,I'm the kind or person speed matters to me but I also have to be getting good result's without having to pay a big price with other problems that come along with speed,I the kind of person who doesn't sugar coat thing's just because something is a great price and has a thousand thing's going for it but has 1 major flaw I'll be the first to point out the flaw with the good not saying that's what your doing because I know from your posting's your a straight up guy.

    You should Bar Keepers Friend Powder on your DMT's it work's on them just as good as a stone and it's extremely fast but most importantly it's better for mother earth.

     
  2. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    402
    Apr 28, 2017
    No pressure. One thing to keep in mind, since you like your Venev stones so much, is that the Matrix stones don't like to be used with nearly as much pressure as the Venevs. They also have a much more delicate feed back.
     
  3. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    I remember you say that about the Matrix stones you make when you first started selling them and telling people not go crazy with the pressure or you will tear diamonds out because your bond is more of a hard rubber I think is what you said.

    I find with the Venev I don't use a lot of pressure,I know people say just use the wright of the stone to tell people how much pressure to use on any stone,but I find that myself and most others add a bit of pressure but not much,I don't really find the need for a lot of pressure in the Venev to get them to cut most steels unless it's on S110v or something like that but M390 and M4 are just fine but S110v is a different story.

    I always try new stones when I can and I have so many I can't keep track but I can recall them when I need them,I have the 6 10 and 13K Sigma Power but their lower grits that are cut for edge pro format sharpeners are to come byand I have a Sue Hiro G8 8K and I think starting at 600 or 800 and up to 10K of the Chosera's plus many many more stones it's almost to the point of getting out of hand and having a lifetime supply.

     
  4. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    402
    Apr 28, 2017
    I totally agree about trying out new stones. Playing with new stones often teaches you something new about your old stuff. With the pass-around, you get to try a full set out for awhile then return them for the price of return shipping. Since they are not for sale you get a clear conscience when you send them back after the newness has worn off, your wife will really like that part. No hurry on the pass-around as it will always be available to try, and probably get more toys in it as time goes by.

    I tried out some Venev stones over a year ago and compared to the Matrix I found they needed noticeably more pressure to cut. Perhaps this is changing as they adjust the formula used.

    I do use a totally different resin for the bond but I have never compared it to rubber, it is a lot harder than hard rubber, but nowhere near as crisp as phenolic.
     
  5. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    I didn't look back threw post's about what compared it to,I just thought that's what I read or unless someone else either way described it to me that was.
    Did you try the OCB Venev stone or the original bond,the original is black and the OCB is a yellowish tan color.
     
  6. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    402
    Apr 28, 2017
    It was the original bond.
     
  7. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero

    Mar 22, 2014
    Nah too slow and the finish is to rough and deep at comparable grit. Bonded stones can hog metal better and leave a nicer finish. Time is money after all. :D
     
    David Richardson and now like this.
  8. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    The higher grit protrusion with a plate should lead to faster material removal rate so long as the stone is kept flushed so it doesn't get clogged up, but it does result in a coarser finish for a certain grain size. For most people's needs there is little justification for bonded diamond stones. It's only if you're--for some reason--using high-vanadium-carbide steels with a highly polished edge. Push-cutting isn't the context of use most wear-resistant steels are needed in--slicing work is. And in slicing work a coarser scratch pattern yields better performance and increased edge retention, so just sticking in a lower grit range makes sense. In such contexts, ANSI 400/JIS 700/FEPA 360 grit and below you can use much less expensive bonded aluminum oxide or silicon carbide abrasives because the grain size is large enough that it attacks the steel substrate and just scoops the tiny ~µm carbides out along with it, and fine diamond plates will be more than good enough for nearly all finer work. So overall, something like 99.999% of knife users on the planet don't have much to gain from the use of such a costly stone. If you're part of that 0.001% of users that legitimately needs to use knives that fit that very niche context of combined materials and situational application, it'd be practical. But for everyone else, it's just fun. Which is totally fine -- it's just that fun and practical are two very different things. :D
     
  9. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    90
    Mar 30, 2018
    Diamond plates scratch deeper than bonded stones, but the scratches are fewer and more spread out, especially after extensive use and diamond tear out. Bonded stones wont cut as deep, but they'll take layers off steel off more efficiently. I'm a fan of diamond plates, but bonded stones definitely have their place, IMO.
     
    now likes this.
  10. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero

    Mar 22, 2014
    Keep an open mind.

    They work fantastic.

     
  11. mycough

    mycough

    May 20, 2007
    Lighten up Francis, the fate of the world doesnt hang on your opinion of these stones.
    Sick puppy would be waaaaaay better off trying them himself then hearing your thoughts on the subject.
    Reread your post, take a chill pill, this is supposed to be fun.


    Russ
     
  12. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    I'm not saying they don't work well. I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of knife users don't receive enough of a benefit from them to make them a practical addition to their sharpening arsenal vs. other options, so for most users they're a luxury purchase rather than one of necessity or for strictly pragmatic reasons. And I very specifically stated that there's nothing wrong with buying a cool bit of gear because it's cool. That's just different from buying a piece of gear because you need it to make your job-essential tools perform properly. It has nothing to do with how well it works, but rather with how cost-effective it is given the tools and contexts of use that most users have. For some, it may be worth it, but the context of use in which such stones would really shine is quite niche.
     
  13. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero

    Mar 22, 2014
    These stones are like oxygen to me. Not that big of a deal unless I'm not getting any.
    Although I always crack a smile when Rex 121 at 70rc HRC sharpens like butter on a bonded stone just like white steel on a king king stone. That never gets old. :D
     
  14. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    Yeah, but you're a vanadium carbide junkie, and you know it. :D
     
    Eli Chaps and DeadboxHero like this.
  15. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    It may have sounded like I was way wound up when I wrote that post and I was not,I was just trying to explain for me what it's like at times with being very busy.

    My problem is some people know I sharpen knifes and I have been using guided systems for 28 years and I have had many people trying to send me their product's because of that,but my problem is not so much the sharpening it's the wearing 3 hats at work deal and other stuff,I'm not a wound up type of person I was just trying to let him know why I didn't want to try the stones in my own way and be clear about it.

    Can you point out exactly where it was that I said to Sick puppy don't try these stones,the only thing he said is do it Wade.

    If you wants to try these stones I'm not going to stop him or anyone else however if a guy said I want try a certain brand of aluminum oxide stone on M390 M4 or S110V what kind of of person would I be if I didn't suggest they try the Matrix Venev or Metallic Bond CBN stones instead and then the guy goes out and buys a full set,true it's his money and he doesn't want to take advice that's fine but to claim that by offering advice is sort of crime wow is all I can say.

    How would feel if you were new to sharpening and I told you I got this special styrofoam that will cut any steel and sold it to you for a good dollar that's a crime offering advice is not and if the guy doesn't listen and he's not happy with his purchase then only has himself to blame.

     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  16. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Basic Member Basic Member

    386
    Sep 27, 2018
    And I said"Do it Wade",because I have used them....for a few weeks and loved every bit of it. Thats why I said do it. As a matter of fact I posted a short review on them. I just figured Wade would like them. And if he doesn't want to, lol, I really dont care, just figured he'd get a kick. Like he said, he's going so many directions right now he just wouldn't get a chance to do them justice. A good honest answer. Much better than taking them and letting them sit on a shelf in the garage or whatever.It's all good, no offense taken and I hope in the future he gets a chance to. Seems like hes happy with the stones he's got and thats what we're lookin for isn't it?
     
  17. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    I'm most likely will try them in the future and if I do it will be in the higher grit ranges for preparing the edge to be be polished and not to a perfect mirror polish just as close as I an get it without doing a ton of extra work either because I only care about one thing and that's the performance of a polished edge not the look.

    The reason I'm not even going to consider trying the lower grit's of those stones is simple,I feel that nothing can beat the Metallic CBN stones by Poltava Diamond Tools and unless 500 people post other wise I'm not even going to waste my time trying them why,because I know that they will be good stones because Dale or whatever the guy's name is that started edge pro said he has tried many diamond plates and other diamond stones in the past and hated them because they were soldered in place and he felt the diamonds hooked a soft spot in the steel and tore out.

    That all being said about Dale and what he told me that he hated diamonds period back then he must really like the Matrix stones or else he he wouldn't be selling them as the edge pro in house brand so that tell's me there good stones but I just feel that no matter how good they are the CBN stones in the lower grit's are going to faster but I'm also willing to consider that I'm wrong on that.

    Don't worry sickpuppy1 this message is not being pointed you or anyone else for that matter I just wanted to be clear on those point and you always been first class with me as well so don't be thinking that I thought you were trying to start something I know your not like that and that your first class all the way.
     
  18. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Basic Member Basic Member

    386
    Sep 27, 2018
    We're good bro.
     
  19. wade7575

    wade7575

    704
    Apr 3, 2013
    How thick is the resin on those CBN stones,I got 3 resin stones that came from gritomatic that were made by Poltava Diamond Tools.

    I'm just wondering because I think mine weren't even 3mm they were thinner then that,they weren't horrible stones but they wore to fast and that is why Konstantin stopped carrying them.

    I'm just wondering if they get theirs from another source,I know mine were a deep brown color for sure.

     
  20. Gritomatic

    Gritomatic Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    198
    Jan 4, 2016
    We will return resin bond CBNs of Poltava. Both resin and metallic versions will have 15K and 30K grits (1/0 and 0.5/0 in term of GOST). I have no idea how Poltava solved the agglomerating problem for such grits.
    Resin bond are 2 mm thick.
    Practical Sharpening has Poltava logos on photos, but I don't want to speculate.
     
    FortyTwoBlades likes this.

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