Precision Ground W2 ??

I wouldn't say it dosen't exist, BUT if it does, it's well hidden.

Lots of makers have looked high and low, and there dosen't seem
to be any to be found.

The only way I know of. to get stock like that, would be to forge heavier
stock down, or have it forged, then ground to the thickness you want.
 
Some good news might be that Crucible is supposedly going try to have their new baldesmithing steel for sale at Blade. Dr. Batson says that the final blend is looking like 1.00 carbon, .80 vanadium and .80 or so manganese.
 
Has anyone heard the why of "higher than grain refinement" amount of vanadium and the 0.80% (as opposed to half or less) manganese?

Mike Krall
 
I haven't talked to Crucible much about the forging steel, but "more than grain refinement" vanadium would be for more wear resistance. We have lots of forgeable alloys with very little wear resistance. More manganese would be for greater hardenability, for ease in getting fully hard.
 
Mike Krall said:
Has anyone heard the why of "higher than grain refinement" amount of vanadium and the 0.80% (as opposed to half or less) manganese?

Mike Krall
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The manganese is specifically for deeper hardenability. Dr. Baston said that this stuff gets VERY sharp, has some serious wear resistance and moves very easily under the hammer.
 
jdm61 said:
Some good news might be that Crucible is supposedly going try to have their new baldesmithing steel for sale at Blade. Dr. Batson says that the final blend is looking like 1.00 carbon, .80 vanadium and .80 or so manganese.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a great knife steel. But the high manganese is not so good for hamon activity.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Sounds like a great knife steel. But the high manganese is not so good for hamon activity.
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True, Don. Dr. Batson said that they did that specifically for easier hardenability. The original batch that Dan Farr and others tested apparently did not have that much manganese and only fully hardened in water/brine or FAST oil. The original mix apparently acted like your W2 in moderately fast oils like Tough Quench. Dr. Batson said that they also tried a little bit of chrome in the mix, but the increased manganese apparently worked better. Glad to hear that as I am afraid of chrome...lol. So perhaps I will save your W2 for special stuff and use Aldo's 1084 and this stuff for regular knives.
 
Mike Krall said:
Don,

Is there a max amount of Mn below which a person gets distinctly more hamon activity? Are there other factors involved?

Mike
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Mike, Mn is the single alloy that most effects hamon activity in simple high carbon steels.

From my experience, .50% Mn is the cut off point for good hamon activity. Less Mn is even better, I like it around .20 or less. Good activity can happen with more Mn but it's difficult and can drive one nuts :)

Also, the lower the carbon, the more Mn you can get away with, like in 1050.

Joe, that new steel sounds pretty good. Nothing wrong with a good deep hardening steel but I'm going to stick with W2, 1086M and 1084/15N20 for damascus.

Not all W2 is the same, this steel I'm using now is now is unbelievable and the hamon potential is off the charts. Sorry for the shameless plug :o
 
Don Hanson III said:
This site has some bad info on W2 and W1.

1.00% Vanadium in W1 :confused:

Chromium and Tungsten in both :confused:
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Remember a year or two ago when we discussed W1 and W2 identification here? No two places seem to have the same claims for those "names". Even the HT Guide lists them as "optional" elements. The conclusion, IIRC, was "look at the analysis, not the name".

Very confusing. :(

Don Hanson III said:
Yep, I've acquired a bit from Howard over the years :)
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Nice acquisition. Rare stuff, indeed.
 
Don's batch of W2 has enough of everything to make it pretty much perfect forging steel At 1%, the carbon is on the "lower' end of the range for W2 so that you can actually harden it without resort to bizarre brine or polymer super quenchants....lol
 
Most of the W2 I've been using has 1%C, .21V, .24Cr, .37Mn, and .44Mn.
It's been producing some very active hamons, but probably wouldn't if the
Mn. were much higher.

The new stuff from Crucible sounds like an excellent performer, though,
and I'll be eager as a kid at Christmas to try some.
 
Russ Andrews said:
Most of the W2 I've been using has 1%C, .21V, .24Cr, .37Mn, and .44Mn.
It's been producing some very active hamons, but probably wouldn't if the
Mn. were much higher.

The new stuff from Crucible sounds like an excellent performer, though,
and I'll be eager as a kid at Christmas to try some.
Click to expand...
Everything you see, hear and read about W2 and other low vanadium simple carbon steels like 1086M seems to support the comment that is attributed to Don Fogg that W2 is the ultimate bladesmiths steel. It has small grain structure, doesn't air harden, gets scary sharp and stays that way and is almost as tough as 5160 or L6. It seems that the trick is getting any to begin with and getting batches like Don's where the carbon isn't up in the 1.5% range where it would be rather difficult to harden using our "roll your own" methods. The Crucible stuff sounds really interesting. Tough to get a hamon, maybe, but i wonder if it is deep hardening enough that you could marquench it? That would be nice.
 
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